Just how bad was the New 52 DC?

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Justice League Dark's artist just traced Poser art. That made me quit buying comics.

Wait, what? That's...actually quite a step up from tracing porn, I guess.

What is Poser art?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Justice League Dark's artist just traced Poser art. That made me quit buying comics.

Wait, what? That's...actually quite a step up from tracing porn, I guess.

What is Poser art?

Poser is a program where you get a bunch of 3d models of people, animals and other things, muck about with them, put them in a 3d environment and take a pic from a certain angle. You can make 3d art using stock models easily downloadable.

Spoiler

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Changing Wonder Woman's origin

Also the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship while hardly the most offensive stab at the coupling in comic history (Hey there, Dark Knight Strikes Again!) just irks me on a fundamental level.

.

1. I don't mind the idea that made Wonder Woman basically the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. Its very in line with the whole Greek Heroes of Myth, Perseus and Hercules were born of Zeus and Mortal Women.

Yes they were, but to me it misses the whole point of Wonder Woman as a hero born entirely of female (godly) virtues that was behind her inception in the first place, other than Hermes granting her the ability to fly - though I'm not sure at what point in her history that happened.

And come on, being the result of Zeus and his total inability to keep it in his toga as a cliche is older than Roman Empire, it's probably on Page 1 of the Joseph Campbell edition of writing powerful heroes.

2. Does it have to do with Lois Lane still existing that the coupling irks you on a fundamental level?

It's just one of those things I take as read with the universe: the sky is blue, cars go vroom, Superman loves Lois Lane AND I much prefer the dynamic between Wonder Woman and Batman so this one is a smaller issue than the rest.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Changing Wonder Woman's origin

Also the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship while hardly the most offensive stab at the coupling in comic history (Hey there, Dark Knight Strikes Again!) just irks me on a fundamental level.

.

1. I don't mind the idea that made Wonder Woman basically the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. Its very in line with the whole Greek Heroes of Myth, Perseus and Hercules were born of Zeus and Mortal Women.

Yes they were, but to me it misses the whole point of Wonder Woman as a hero born entirely of female (godly) virtues that was behind her inception in the first place, other than Hermes granting her the ability to fly - though I'm not sure at what point in her history that happened.

And come on, being the result of Zeus and his total inability to keep it in his toga as a cliche is older than Roman Empire, it's probably on Page 1 of the Joseph Campbell edition of writing powerful heroes.

2. Does it have to do with Lois Lane still existing that the coupling irks you on a fundamental level?

It's just one of those things I take as read with the universe: the sky is blue, cars go vroom, Superman loves Lois Lane AND I much prefer the dynamic between Wonder Woman and Batman so this one is a smaller issue than the rest.

Batman has Catwoman, never ever pair him with Wonder Woman.

 

[hermes]

There was a lot of bad things mixed up with some few decent things... like all comics. However, people seem to be more upset because DC took the chance to try to reboot the entire universe and the ratio of decent/garbage didn't improve at all. In fact, the changed some decent stories for pure, unredeemable garbage: Teen Titans, Catwoman, Batman All Stars, Superman All Stars, Deathstroke. If this was the best they could conjure for some stories, it was best if they didn't bother. Just shallow edgy from the school of the 90s...

Ohh, well, at least they made the crossover between Swamp Thing and Animal Man. The story wasn't bad, but the art was incredible...

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Changing Wonder Woman's origin

Also the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship while hardly the most offensive stab at the coupling in comic history (Hey there, Dark Knight Strikes Again!) just irks me on a fundamental level.

.

1. I don't mind the idea that made Wonder Woman basically the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. Its very in line with the whole Greek Heroes of Myth, Perseus and Hercules were born of Zeus and Mortal Women.

Yes they were, but to me it misses the whole point of Wonder Woman as a hero born entirely of female (godly) virtues that was behind her inception in the first place, other than Hermes granting her the ability to fly - though I'm not sure at what point in her history that happened.

And come on, being the result of Zeus and his total inability to keep it in his toga as a cliche is older than Roman Empire, it's probably on Page 1 of the Joseph Campbell edition of writing powerful heroes.

2. Does it have to do with Lois Lane still existing that the coupling irks you on a fundamental level?

It's just one of those things I take as read with the universe: the sky is blue, cars go vroom, Superman loves Lois Lane AND I much prefer the dynamic between Wonder Woman and Batman so this one is a smaller issue than the rest.

Batman has Catwoman, never ever pair him with Wonder Woman.

While the relationship between Batman and Catwoman is probably as old as Superman and Lois Lane and as such holds a respected place among many fans, for my money they'd end up in a sort of negative feedback loop with their polar opposite personalities and moral standings - I mean for fuck sake, Selena hangs out with Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy - and their relationship would just deteriorate into bitterness. And with Talia al-Gul it's second verse same as the first. To me, Diana represents stability for Bruce if only he was brave enough to reach out and take the chance.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Changing Wonder Woman's origin

Also the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship while hardly the most offensive stab at the coupling in comic history (Hey there, Dark Knight Strikes Again!) just irks me on a fundamental level.

.

1. I don't mind the idea that made Wonder Woman basically the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. Its very in line with the whole Greek Heroes of Myth, Perseus and Hercules were born of Zeus and Mortal Women.

Yes they were, but to me it misses the whole point of Wonder Woman as a hero born entirely of female (godly) virtues that was behind her inception in the first place, other than Hermes granting her the ability to fly - though I'm not sure at what point in her history that happened.

And come on, being the result of Zeus and his total inability to keep it in his toga as a cliche is older than Roman Empire, it's probably on Page 1 of the Joseph Campbell edition of writing powerful heroes.

2. Does it have to do with Lois Lane still existing that the coupling irks you on a fundamental level?

It's just one of those things I take as read with the universe: the sky is blue, cars go vroom, Superman loves Lois Lane AND I much prefer the dynamic between Wonder Woman and Batman so this one is a smaller issue than the rest.

Batman has Catwoman, never ever pair him with Wonder Woman.

While the relationship between Batman and Catwoman is probably as old as Superman and Lois Lane and as such holds a respected place among many fans, for my money they'd end up in a sort of negative feedback loop with their polar opposite personalities and moral standings - I mean for fuck sake, Selena hangs out with Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy - and their relationship would just deteriorate into bitterness. And with Talia al-Gul it's second verse same as the first. To me, Diana represents stability for Bruce if only he was brave enough to reach out and take the chance.

I often imagine Catwoman having a relationship with Batman as a way of turning her from villainess to heroine.

Like she goes from Criminal Thief to applying her skills and use to the Justice League as a member, I imagine her as doing the more espionage side of Justice League.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Batman has Catwoman, never ever pair him with Wonder Woman.

I don't really pair anyone with Wonder Woman. She doesn't strike me as the type to settle into a long-term relationship.

Batman and Catwoman have this on-again off-again thing going, which gets a little attention in the Catwoman solo series. Basically, they're both screwed in the head, so they hook up, but they're both screwed in the head, so it never lasts. I don't really picture Batman as a long-term partner either, come to think of it. He's like the textbook shitty boyfriend; brooding, inscrutable, emotionally distant, and obsessed with karate.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Lobo

Would have given ANYTHING to see Deathstroke finally get rid of that whole line...

Way to spoil one of the most lovably trashy anti-heroes in the roster.

 

[King Billi]

There was a lot of bad things mixed up with some few decent things... like all comics. However, people seem to be more upset because DC took the chance to try to reboot the entire universe and the ratio of decent/garbage didn't improve at all. In fact, the changed some decent stories for pure, unredeemable garbage: Teen Titans, Catwoman, Batman All Stars, Superman All Stars, Deathstroke. If this was the best they could conjure for some stories, it was best if they didn't bother. Just shallow edgy from the school of the 90s...

Ohh, well, at least they made the crossover between Swamp Thing and Animal Man. The story wasn't bad, but the art was incredible...

What exactly is Batman and Superman All Stars?

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

What exactly is Batman and Superman All Stars?

I assume he's referring to All-Star Superman and All-Star Batman & Robin.

One is amazing, and the other is amazing for completely different reasons.

 

[votemarvel]

For an attempt to make continuity less confusing, they succeeded in making it even more so.

This can all be put down to the fact they didn't completely reboot parts of the universe, the Batman and Green Lantern lines for example. Of course this then puts those hold overs into conflict with the old history.

DC should have wiped everything. Every character, every storyline, and given them all a brand new start.

 

[SirSullymore]

Eh, I liked the N52 for the most part, but I got kind of lucky in that it was very kind to most of my favorite characters (Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Animalman, Swampthing, Batman, Guy Gardner, Lex Luthor, Sinestro). Some of my faves got screwed (Constantine and Flash were pretty mediocre and they completely changed The Question and then did nothing with him), but overall, I was happy.

 

[hermes]

What exactly is Batman and Superman All Stars?

I assume he's referring to All-Star Superman and All-Star Batman & Robin.

One is amazing, and the other is amazing for completely different reasons.

Actually, I was confused, and meant Superman Action Comics (and All-Star Batman & Robin).

I heard it gets better, but I didn't give it a chance beyond the first few numbers, of which I am not a fan.

 

[hermes]

For an attempt to make continuity less confusing, they succeeded in making it even more so.

This can all be put down to the fact they didn't completely reboot parts of the universe, the Batman and Green Lantern lines for example. Of course this then puts those hold overs into conflict with the old history.

DC should have wiped everything. Every character, every storyline, and given them all a brand new start.

Yes, because this is what we all need: a new take on how Bruce Wayne's parents were killed. That is something we haven't seen enough times.

But I do agree this half reboot was more confusing than it needed. Take Batgirl, for example, it fits into the whole reboot, but it assumes everyone knows and is familiar with The Killing Joke, the "years" as Oracle and the relationship with Nightwing.

 

[votemarvel]

Well you don't need a new take on it with a reboot, hell you only need to see them walking of of the movie and getting shot in a flashback. True origin stories are important but with characters pretty much everyone knows, time does not need to be focused on them.

Take the two most recent Hulk movies, the one with Eric Bana and Edward Norton. Both are good movies but one spends half the movie telling you an origin you already know, and the other lays it over the opening credits.

So just use the same idea in the comics. Don't waste a lot of time telling the origin, make use of the cultural familiarity of the character to use the time elsewhere.

I'm torn on the new 52 Batgirl series and how it has continued. They are by no means bad stories but they feel to me like Steph Brown Batgirl stories with Barbara put in place.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Changing Wonder Woman's origin

Also the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship while hardly the most offensive stab at the coupling in comic history (Hey there, Dark Knight Strikes Again!) just irks me on a fundamental level.

.

1. I don't mind the idea that made Wonder Woman basically the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. Its very in line with the whole Greek Heroes of Myth, Perseus and Hercules were born of Zeus and Mortal Women.

Yes they were, but to me it misses the whole point of Wonder Woman as a hero born entirely of female (godly) virtues that was behind her inception in the first place, other than Hermes granting her the ability to fly - though I'm not sure at what point in her history that happened.

And come on, being the result of Zeus and his total inability to keep it in his toga as a cliche is older than Roman Empire, it's probably on Page 1 of the Joseph Campbell edition of writing powerful heroes.

2. Does it have to do with Lois Lane still existing that the coupling irks you on a fundamental level?

It's just one of those things I take as read with the universe: the sky is blue, cars go vroom, Superman loves Lois Lane AND I much prefer the dynamic between Wonder Woman and Batman so this one is a smaller issue than the rest.

Sorry for the necro but I really wanted to say this to you Gordon regarding Wonder Woman's changed origin.

Wonder Woman being the daughter of Zeus at least is no where near as bad as her being a Catholic in Justice League Act of God


But a bit on topic, I think I found the worse thing the DC New 52 made, and its the "Death of the Family" event of Batman:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Family

23 issues each book belonging to completely different Comic Book lines as in you have to get Batman, Detective Comics, Batman and Robin, Catwoman, Suicide Squad, etc. to complete the story and all that build up all the tension, all the suggestions of permanant lasting concequences to our heroes....

...And everyone just made it out fine in the end as if nothing happened:

Spoiler

Basically the Joker in his Leatherface phase captured all of Batman's friends and co-horts like Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Catwoman, Alfred, and Gordon and appearently cut all their faces off like Leatherface from Texas Chainsaw Massacre, there was a part of the book with Batman strapped in a chair on a dinner table and see all his friends with casted faces as if they went through getting thier face torn off, and all their torn faces were on the dinner plates in front of Batman as if this is permanant, the Bat Family are now mortally scarred for life and how does this franchise end? Turns out all their faces are fine and still on them and the ones on the dinner plate were fake and Joker was just being a TROLOLOLOL and they beat him, the end. Status Quo restored. Fuck you

 

[Kolby Jack]

Changing Wonder Woman's origin

Also the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship while hardly the most offensive stab at the coupling in comic history (Hey there, Dark Knight Strikes Again!) just irks me on a fundamental level.

.

1. I don't mind the idea that made Wonder Woman basically the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. Its very in line with the whole Greek Heroes of Myth, Perseus and Hercules were born of Zeus and Mortal Women.

Yes they were, but to me it misses the whole point of Wonder Woman as a hero born entirely of female (godly) virtues that was behind her inception in the first place, other than Hermes granting her the ability to fly - though I'm not sure at what point in her history that happened.

And come on, being the result of Zeus and his total inability to keep it in his toga as a cliche is older than Roman Empire, it's probably on Page 1 of the Joseph Campbell edition of writing powerful heroes.

2. Does it have to do with Lois Lane still existing that the coupling irks you on a fundamental level?

It's just one of those things I take as read with the universe: the sky is blue, cars go vroom, Superman loves Lois Lane AND I much prefer the dynamic between Wonder Woman and Batman so this one is a smaller issue than the rest.

Sorry for the necro but I really wanted to say this to you Gordon regarding Wonder Woman's changed origin.

Wonder Woman being the daughter of Zeus at least is no where near as bad as her being a Catholic in Justice League Act of God


But a bit on topic, I think I found the worse thing the DC New 52 made, and its the "Death of the Family" event of Batman:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Family

23 issues each book belonging to completely different Comic Book lines as in you have to get Batman, Detective Comics, Batman and Robin, Catwoman, Suicide Squad, etc. to complete the story and all that build up all the tension, all the suggestions of permanant lasting concequences to our heroes....

...And everyone just made it out fine in the end as if nothing happened:

Spoiler

Basically the Joker in his Leatherface phase captured all of Batman's friends and co-horts like Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Catwoman, Alfred, and Gordon and appearently cut all their faces off like Leatherface from Texas Chainsaw Massacre, there was a part of the book with Batman strapped in a chair on a dinner table and see all his friends with casted faces as if they went through getting thier face torn off, and all their torn faces were on the dinner plates in front of Batman as if this is permanant, the Bat Family are now mortally scarred for life and how does this franchise end? Turns out all their faces are fine and still on them and the ones on the dinner plate were fake and Joker was just being a TROLOLOLOL and they beat him, the end. Status Quo restored. Fuck you

That's because Gail Simone (writer of Batgirl) was extremely displeased at the way Batgirl was portrayed in the storyline. She just gets captured and traumatized without putting up a fight. I don't know the stories of the other characters' writers, but the Batgirl writers wanted to pretend Death of the Family never happened to preserve Batgirl's strong character. Really, Death of the Family was just a showcase for the worst tropes in Batman: Batman is the best at everything, Joker is little more than a serial killer who can do anything to anyone as long as it's horrifying, the sidekicks all need to be rescued all the time, grim-dark gritty grimness...

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Changing Wonder Woman's origin

Also the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship while hardly the most offensive stab at the coupling in comic history (Hey there, Dark Knight Strikes Again!) just irks me on a fundamental level.

.

1. I don't mind the idea that made Wonder Woman basically the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. Its very in line with the whole Greek Heroes of Myth, Perseus and Hercules were born of Zeus and Mortal Women.

Yes they were, but to me it misses the whole point of Wonder Woman as a hero born entirely of female (godly) virtues that was behind her inception in the first place, other than Hermes granting her the ability to fly - though I'm not sure at what point in her history that happened.

And come on, being the result of Zeus and his total inability to keep it in his toga as a cliche is older than Roman Empire, it's probably on Page 1 of the Joseph Campbell edition of writing powerful heroes.

2. Does it have to do with Lois Lane still existing that the coupling irks you on a fundamental level?

It's just one of those things I take as read with the universe: the sky is blue, cars go vroom, Superman loves Lois Lane AND I much prefer the dynamic between Wonder Woman and Batman so this one is a smaller issue than the rest.

Really, Death of the Family was just a showcase for the worst tropes in Batman: Batman is the best at everything, Joker is little more than a serial killer who can do anything to anyone as long as it's horrifying, the sidekicks all need to be rescued all the time, grim-dark gritty grimness...

And this man is the face of DC.

Ughh its so wrong to see him in the middle of everyone like that