Just in case there were some who still felt the hatred towards the XBONE was unwarrented...

[Gorrath]

I find it insane that a corporation can do that. This is an enormous flaw in the Us legal system. In EU no company can do that because it directly violates one of your fundamental rights guaranteed by the constitution. That's right. In most European countries it is your constitutional right to sue someone and no one can take it away from you. No matter what you sign.

This clause does not take away a person's right to sue, just to participate in class action lawsuits. Individuals can still sue freely or engage in binding arbitration. Even if you did have to sign a waiver to any right to sue, the waiver would not hold up in court if the suit had grounds. This is a single type of lawsuit that is being waived, not any and all right to sue. I don't think that excuses the clause of course, just clarifying.

 

[Gorrath]

That's the problem, most of those who are most loudly decrying how terrible it is don't really understand how it works. I prefer to herald fact and understanding over rumor and bias...

Everyone understands how it works.

You just think that being able to share a game amongst 10 of your friends justifies them taking away your consumer rights.

ten of my friends, at one time. Do that with a disc...

please tell me how my experience as the owner of Forza 5 is going to be negatively impacted, by comparison to say, Forza 4. I've got time.

If the internet gets its panties in a bunch and Microsoft finds itself vulnerable to DDoS or other take-down attacks, you might very well find out how your experience could be negatively impacted by Microsoft playing parole officer. While I'll not attack anyone personally for choosing the product they like the best or feels fits their needs, there is something to be said for bad practices being spread by consumer's unwillingness to fight back. This isn't a matter of simple bias and hyperbole like most 'console wars'. We have seen time and time again how mandatory internet check ins or conectivity can hamper the end user.

Also, my understanding is that while you can share the game with ten friends, only one can play it at once, making it only more convenient than handing your disc over from a logistical perspective while restricting the number of friends who can benefit from it. At best it's a push.

 

[Lightknight]

I don't think you can buy a hotdog without signing a document waiving your rights to class-action lawsuits anymore. This is pretty standard fare nowadays. I mean, it's a sign of evil corporations but it's also a sign of them being afraid of us.

In any event, while I have been vocal about the nonsense the Xbone has forced on consumers, this is just one small bit of standard corporate siliness.

 

[Able Seacat]

ten of my friends, at one time. Do that with a disc...

Microsoft has been clear as mud about this but I was under the impression that the game could only be shared to one person at a time?

From this article Here

''The only limitation, it seems, is that only one person can be playing the shared copy of a single game at any given time.''

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I find it insane that a corporation can do that. This is an enormous flaw in the Us legal system. In EU no company can do that because it directly violates one of your fundamental rights guaranteed by the constitution. That's right. In most European countries it is your constitutional right to sue someone and no one can take it away from you. No matter what you sign.

This clause does not take away a person's right to sue, just to participate in class action lawsuits. Individuals can still sue freely or engage in binding arbitration. Even if you did have to sign a waiver to any right to sue, the waiver would not hold up in court if the suit had grounds. This is a single type of lawsuit that is being waived, not any and all right to sue. I don't think that excuses the clause of course, just clarifying.

I know. But they can't do that in most EU countries.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

...Of course I doubt anyone outside the US would be buying an xbone...

Do you understand just how right you are [http://www.gamespot.com/twitter-battle/xbox-vs-ps4/]?

Ha!

The funniest part of that competition is that the only country that the Xbone isn't being beaten by %80+ (Saudi Arabia with %47 in favour of it) isn't even supported by Microsoft Day One and it may not work at all.

 

[Gorrath]

I find it insane that a corporation can do that. This is an enormous flaw in the Us legal system. In EU no company can do that because it directly violates one of your fundamental rights guaranteed by the constitution. That's right. In most European countries it is your constitutional right to sue someone and no one can take it away from you. No matter what you sign.

This clause does not take away a person's right to sue, just to participate in class action lawsuits. Individuals can still sue freely or engage in binding arbitration. Even if you did have to sign a waiver to any right to sue, the waiver would not hold up in court if the suit had grounds. This is a single type of lawsuit that is being waived, not any and all right to sue. I don't think that excuses the clause of course, just clarifying.

I know. But they can't do that in most EU countries.

Indeed, your post just seemed to indicate that you thought any and all right to sue was being waived. Sorry for my confusion.

 

[Frezzato]

...Of course I doubt anyone outside the US would be buying an xbone...

Do you understand just how right you are [http://www.gamespot.com/twitter-battle/xbox-vs-ps4/]?

Not that it surprises me, but I think it's worth pointing out that the locations that can vote include Japan, where not only is the XBone not available, but the Xbox 360 sold terribly as well.

That's true, but that's less than 600 votes out of nearly 40,000 total. And the vast majority of Xbox One votes are from Saudi Arabia, which isn't even on the list of 21 where it will be launched supported(?). I'm sure once it's released they'll go all out.

 

[Genocidicles]

please tell me how my experience as the owner of Forza 5 is going to be negatively impacted, by comparison to say, Forza 4. I've got time.

They take the servers down at the end of the console's lifespan, making your copy of Forza 5 worthless.

That should be more than enough reason if you value gaming as an art form in any way.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

...Of course I doubt anyone outside the US would be buying an xbone...

Do you understand just how right you are [http://www.gamespot.com/twitter-battle/xbox-vs-ps4/]?

What the hell is wrong with Saudi Arabia? Are they generally uninformed, trolling or just sadists?

 

[Happiness Assassin]

Here are 2 excerpts from the Steam EULA, Section 12:

YOU AND VALVE AGREE TO RESOLVE ALL DISPUTES AND CLAIMS BETWEEN US IN INDIVIDUAL BINDING ARBITRATION. THAT INCLUDES, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, ANY CLAIMS ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO: (i) ANY ASPECT OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN US; (ii) THIS AGREEMENT; OR (iii) YOUR USE OF STEAM, YOUR ACCOUNT OR THE SOFTWARE. IT APPLIES REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SUCH CLAIMS ARE BASED IN CONTRACT, TORT, STATUTE, FRAUD, UNFAIR COMPETITION, MISREPRESENTATION OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY.

...

YOU AND VALVE AGREE NOT TO BRING OR PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS OR REPRESENTATIVE ACTION, PRIVATE ATTORNEY GENERAL ACTION OR COLLECTIVE ARBITRATION, EVEN IF AAA?s PROCEDURES OR RULES WOULD OTHERWISE ALLOW ONE. THE ARBITRATOR MAY AWARD RELIEF ONLY IN FAVOR OF THE INDIVIDUAL PARTY SEEKING RELIEF AND ONLY TO THE EXTENT OF THAT PARTY?S INDIVIDUAL CLAIM. You and Valve also agree not to seek to combine any action or arbitration with any other action or arbitration without the consent of all parties to this Agreement and all other actions or arbitration.

Essentially this is something that damn near every company includes in their EULA. Not that it matters, as posters before me have pointed out that these kind of clauses can't hold up in court.

 

[Gorrath]

That's the problem, most of those who are most loudly decrying how terrible it is don't really understand how it works. I prefer to herald fact and understanding over rumor and bias...

Everyone understands how it works.

You just think that being able to share a game amongst 10 of your friends justifies them taking away your consumer rights.

ten of my friends, at one time. Do that with a disc...

please tell me how my experience as the owner of Forza 5 is going to be negatively impacted, by comparison to say, Forza 4. I've got time.

If the internet gets its panties in a bunch and Microsoft finds itself vulnerable to DDoS or other take-down attacks, you might very well find out how your experience could be negatively impacted by Microsoft playing parole officer. While I'll not attack anyone personally for choosing the product they like the best or feels fits their needs, there is something to be said for bad practices being spread by consumer's unwillingness to fight back. This isn't a matter of simple bias and hyperbole like most 'console wars'. We have seent ime and time again how mandatory internet check ins or conenctivity can hamper the end user.

Also, my understanding is that while you can share the game with ten friends, only one can play it at once, making it only more convenient than handing your disc over from a logistic perspective while restricting the number of friends who can benefit from it. At best it's a push.

I dunno about you but I'm gonna be hard pressed to come up with 10 people I would even share my library with, so I'm not sure how "restrictive" it really is in practice. I'm about the logistics. My best friend is an hour away, So its not a push between sharing and discs.

Also, I'm prepared for that to happen with FM5 because in the case of your example I wouldn't be able to really enjoy FM4 either, Sure i'd have access to lame offline mode, but I wouldn't have access to my online profile's garage and i wouldnt have access to race online with other players... So... Yea, its really not different.

Could you please tell me how my owning a copy of fm5 is going to be negatively different than my copy of fm4... Note negatively because its already going to be easier to share that game with my friends.

Oh, you wanted me to tell you about your personal experiences and what you believe is and isn't worthwhile as far as game modes go without me knowing anything about you or your friends. In that case I'm afraid I can't help. As I said, this isn't about a single user but the needs and wants of a whole user base and the industry at large. You may find that 'lame offline modes' appeal to quite a lot of people. If the product fits you, fine, more power to you, but rather than just putting up everyone else's complaints to 'bias' 'rumor' or 'misunderstanding' perhaps consider that plenty of people don't like the system for very good reasons and very valid fears.

 

[The White Hunter]

Here's the thing abnout EULA's: They don't overule statuatory rights. Much in the same way that sticker in your Xbox you break to open it CAN NOT legally invalidate your warranty, a EULA does not have the power to supersede rights.

Edit: Also, under english common law you could argue that nobody reads EULA's, because the common reasonable man does not wish to read 10 pages of legalese and just wants to play a game.

 

[The White Hunter]

Kupo

Oh, so what your're saying is you CAN'T tell me how owning FM5 is going to different in practice than FM4. Keep in mind kiddo FM5 has an offline mode as well, so you kinda missed the point. It doesn't matter if someone else likes offline mode, because they will be available in both games, so going off on some random tangent speaking in generics is getting off point.

The point is you cant tell me how in practice owning FM5 is going to be different than owning FM4, aside from the fact that sharing it will be easier.

Ummm... Why did you quote my bit on the EULA not overiding your statuatory rights?

I didn't say anything about Forza?

I frankly don't care?

If you find the Xbox One's sharing features useful and appealing you are perfectly welcome to use and enjoy them?
It doesn't affect me if you enjoy that and find them useful. Have fun with it.

I likely would not as the friends I share games with live within 10 minutes walk and many of the Xbox's exclusives and features don't appeal to me. The PS4 has exclusive titles that do appeal to me, and thus I will be purchasing that over the Xbox One. That's my reasoning.