Justice?

[ThrobbingEgo]

This I don't. Murderer AND rapist, two of the crimes with the most reincidence? Not likely.
And I don't see lessening factors, like temporal insanity, use of drugs (admit it, combat shock is far too overused in courts these days to be taken seriously anymore), etc.
So, this guy was completely aware of what he was doing. Were he in Irak, he would be beheaded at the very least.

I don't think it's a matter of responsibility. I think it's more a matter of safety. Can we reform a murderer into someone who wouldn't be likely to murder again? Can we reform sex offenders? Do we want to lock people away forever or do we want them to be able to rejoin society safely? Do we want to keep people who do bad things in jail, or do we believe we can give someone the positive influence and encouragement to be a good person? I'd like it if we were able to do the later.

Keep in mind, I know that at least 50-80% of people in prison can't currently be reformed.

Let's just avoid the Ludovico Technique, please.

 

[fulano]

Hmmm. I'm okay with it.

With the death penalty you are literally put to sleep with an injection before you bite the dust so as to not be "inhumane". Think about it: the little girl he killed, or her sister, or her family are done; there is no more life for them to be had, and this guy what? should he be put to sleep? Once you die that's it, and he gets off easy not having to deal with what he's done and feeling okay with being "punished".

He should pay for it with his life, I'd say. If he can come to terms with the horrible thing that he has done while serving his time in the bin, then more power to him. But, still, he has got to pay in a way that comes as close as possible with what he has taken. And still, there is the case that the army was actually aware of the fact that he was suffering from a psychological condition that endangered him and others, and yet they sent him back on his way, with pills no less.

Life in the can forever and ever is hardcore, knowing you'll never be outside again, now add to that the layer of being fucking nuts. Anyone believing that it equates with "cheating the system" has no clue and should inform their opinions.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

With the death penalty you are literally put to sleep with an injection before you bite the dust so as to not be "inhumane". Think about it: the little girl he killed, or her sister, or her family are done; there is no more life for them to be had, and this guy what? should he be put to sleep? Once you die that's it, and he gets off easy not having to deal with what he's done and feeling okay with being "punished".

If you don't believe in an afterlife, then it doesn't really matter how you die. Either way, violently or peacefully, you cease to exist. Corpses, from this perspective, can't care if they were in pain or not - because their minds no longer exist. You can't reflect on the pain if you don't exist.

Dying, to me isn't "just" it. It is IT. The thing you really, really don't want. The total loss of you, and your entire perspective on life. It's not the same as sleep. That's a pretty damn serious thing to lightly condemn someone to.

Besides, how would it "pay" for the girl's life? It doesn't.

(Whoops, I misread what you wrote and thought you were supporting the death penalty. My points still stand though; I'm not supporting prison as punishment.)

 

[fulano]

With the death penalty you are literally put to sleep with an injection before you bite the dust so as to not be "inhumane". Think about it: the little girl he killed, or her sister, or her family are done; there is no more life for them to be had, and this guy what? should he be put to sleep? Once you die that's it, and he gets off easy not having to deal with what he's done and feeling okay with being "punished".

If you don't believe in an afterlife, then it doesn't really matter how you die. Either way, violently or peacefully, you cease to exist. Corpses, from this perspective, can't care if they were in pain or not - because their minds no longer exist. You can't reflect on the pain if you don't exist.

Dying, to me isn't "just" it. It is IT. The thing you really, really don't want. The total loss of you, and your entire perspective on life. It's not the same as sleep. That's a pretty damn serious thing to lightly condemn someone to.

Besides, how would it "pay" for the girl's life? It doesn't.

(Whoops, I misread what you wrote and thought you were supporting the death penalty. My points still stand though; I'm not supporting prison as punishment.)

The purpose of prison varies from culture to culture, but in modern times it is used for in theory rehabilitate the immates. I'm not referring to his prison term as "punishment," but his death, to me, just doesn't cut it. If you are gonna kill someone like that, then you give your life for it: You resign yourself to live in the bin for the rest of your days and figure a way to deal with what you have done, and hopefully you'll make it, but then again, you are imprisoned so you may not make it.

Hopefully that clarifies it.

 

[CNKFan]

The death penalty is inept and should not be used anymore. I agree with life in prison with no chance of parole.

The death penalty is inept because we do not do it cruelly or unusally. If we crucified him (fitting at how religious of a country this is) no one will do it again for a long while

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

If you are gonna kill someone like that, then you give your life for it: You resign yourself to live in the bin for the rest of your days and figure a way to deal with what you have done, and hopefully you'll make it, but then again, you are imprisoned so you may not make it.

I understand what you mean - but why the punishment? It's there and, in theory, that's shouldn't be what prison's for. What does hurting bad people fix?

Is it right to hurt someone to make someone else feel better?

 

[Leorex]

I don't agree with the death penalty. Ideally, we'd want to reform them. There are some types of people who can't currently be reformed (psychopaths for example, which make up between 50-80% of prison populations), and prison does a crappy job of reforming people. Still, killing someone bad is more about vengeance than putting someone away - than keeping innocent people from getting hurt.

Vengeance shouldn't have a place in the adult world. We should be more mature than that.

this, justice isnt about revenge, its about justice.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

The death penalty is inept and should not be used anymore. I agree with life in prison with no chance of parole.

The death penalty is inept because we do not do it cruelly or unusally. If we crucified him (fitting at how religious of a country this is) no one will do it again for a long while

"The laws should have teeth," right? I don't think this actually works as effective motivation for the people who feel estranged by society. It's like saying, "follow our rules, or we'll hurt you" instead of "follow our rules, because we need them." You're not going to appeal to their better nature.

Philip Zimbardo deals with this.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil.html

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

This, justice isnt about revenge, its about justice.

How is killing someone justice? One person gets killed, then another person gets killed. That's two wrongs dressed up as a right.

(Edit: And I didn't read the "this." This is a bad day for me...)

 

[fulano]

If you are gonna kill someone like that, then you give your life for it: You resign yourself to live in the bin for the rest of your days and figure a way to deal with what you have done, and hopefully you'll make it, but then again, you are imprisoned so you may not make it.

I understand what you mean - but why the punishment? It's there and, in theory, that's shouldn't be what prison's for. What does hurting bad people fix?

Is it right to hurt someone to make someone else feel better?

Hmm...for starters? It's pretty damn cathartic and yet...it's far from just.

Make no mistake, my intention to jail the poor soldier guy until the coming of Lavos is not out of a thirst for punishment, but rather to come as close as one can to dishing proper "justice." Of course we can't, but it's better than just killing him (for our sake, and his sake) or just doing nothing.

 

[Cliff_m85]

The death penalty is inept and should not be used anymore. I agree with life in prison with no chance of parole.

The death penalty is inept because we do not do it cruelly or unusally. If we crucified him (fitting at how religious of a country this is) no one will do it again for a long while

Seeing how most people who murder aren't doing it logically there is actually no evidence for the claim that violent punishments somehow make people who are either

1) Insane
2) In a fit of rage
3) Delusional

think twice about doing such actions.

 

[Leorex]

This, justice isnt about revenge, its about justice.

How is killing someone justice? One person gets killed, then another person gets killed. That's two wrongs dressed up as a right.

(Edit: And I didn't read the "this." This is a bad day for me...)

I beleave in the death penealty if we are a society of logical people trying to remove a bad cancer, but if we are, then every one who is in the whole for half there life should be killed.

if we are a socity of people who beleave that people can be rehabilitated then i do not beleave in the death penalty. because a society of moral people dose not kill.

 

[Pseudonym2]

Life without parole is not a slap one the wrist. Now he gets the rest of his life to think about what a loser he is.

 

[fulano]

Life without parole is not a slap one the wrist. Now he gets the rest of his life to think about what a loser he is.

Amen.

Real shit should have real consequences.

 

[ElephantGuts]

I would prefer if they killed him, but life in prison isn't bad either. Let him rot in a jail cell for the rest of his life. Hopefully he'll come to wish he was dead.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

This, justice isnt about revenge, its about justice.

How is killing someone justice? One person gets killed, then another person gets killed. That's two wrongs dressed up as a right.

(Edit: And I didn't read the "this." This is a bad day for me...)

I beleave in the death penealty if we are a society of logical people trying to remove a bad cancer, but if we are, then every one who is in the whole for half there life should be killed.

if we are a socity of people who beleave that people can be rehabilitated then i do not beleave in the death penalty. because a society of moral people dose not kill.

Why the line between morality and logic? There has to be some level of logic to morality, or else it's just arbitrary. Arbitrary morality isn't fair - it's not moral. I'm not arguing for positivism, where all morality has to come from scientific truths, but there has to be a rhyme and reason.

Why can't we have a morality that makes sense?