[Katawa Shoujo]: Should attraction to the disabled be normalized? Yes!

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LilithSlave

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How is this even a point of controversy? I'll never know. Makes me sad. After my last thread, I'm becoming super paranoid about my tone. It's hard however to see such things and not feel a little bit dumbfounded, or keep my feels of dismay under a wrap. It's hard to even end such a thread with "yes!" instead of "obviously!". But I'm living in a less than ideal planet, apparently.

I wasn't sure exactly where to put this topic. It's partially to do with a single video game in specific that I'm surprised is well known around these parts. And partially to do with an "off-topic" style discussion. There's also already several topics and articles related to Katawa Shoujo. But this is a hot topic, sadly, about the thing. And that I'm aware, doesn't have much too many of its own specific topic.

So let's get to it here, certainly the game can, while maybe not purely intended, facilitate a fetish for the disable somewhat. A lot of people, seem to take issue with this. Outright fetishization can be indeed a bad thing and I could see where people are coming from in that. When fetishism becomes degrading is a controversial matter. But certainly fetishism can be dehumanizing. And especially fetishes like fat fetishism and disability fetishism. Some fat fetishists fetishize the lack of mobility and ability to resist, this is kinda creepy. And fetishizing someone for having something like a disability, seems off. Not as in odd, but is sounds suspect of fetishizing, say, being unempowered. Inequality and weakness in a partner. That is kinda creepy and disturbing. And one has to wonder why someone would fetishize people with disability, and why it would come about for non-exploitative reasons. And at the very least, if someone has a strong preference for dating the disabled, that's awfully exclusive.

On the other hand, as shown by talk of the subject, many people have a very broad definition of what is a fetish. And seems to include attraction to anything that is not sheer attraction to normal aesthetics and behaviors, and penises or vaginas. None of which should EVER be marginalized with the word "fetish" in a negative sense.

I've noticed this with Katawa Shoujo. Instead of opposing an extreme fetish for the disabled, even so much as a mild interest in them. Whether finding them even slightly more interesting, or outright being interested in them at all. I heard people saying that attraction to the disabled should not be normalized. That's disgusting. Of course it should be normalized! Worse yet, some people called them "freaks". That we "shouldn't normalize attraction to freaks". Absolutely disgusting. People with disabilities or aesthetic abnormalities deserve to be considered as beautiful as anyone. And I oppose the idea that they are any less beautiful, attractive, or worthy of affection.

Furthermore, I have no suspect of someone who, say, finds someone with burnscars on their face or body, mildly more physically attractive than someone who doesn't. It may be mildly shallow, but it certainly isn't worse than the converse. In an ideal world, having scars or not wouldn't matter at all to anyone, since it has absolutely nothing to do with personality. But certainly, they have the right to be considered as beautiful as anyone. And it is absolutely sad that there are people who think otherwise. I think it's far more shallow and sad to think that the disabled or different should be considered unattractive, than being slightly interested in them.

If people opposed to what they perceive is going on, as the dehumanization by fetishization of the disabled, from my perspective, the majority of you have been going about it horribly.

I do have problems with Katawa Shoujo. The characters are still school kids, a setting far too overdone and sexualized. And certainly the game contains sex. I know that is a reality of school life for teenagers, but you don't need to be so explicit about it. You need little more than to infer that something has happened and leave it at that. But certainly any issues I have with Katawa Shoujo is not the presence of the people being portrayed as love interests, being disabled.

Well, let's bring this controversy to a close. If that's even possible on the internet. Or at least get everything out there.

Edit: Paragraph spoiled for less wall of text.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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all I know was that Rin was a fucking fruit-cake, lack of arms wasn't her problem
 

Lucem712

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Jul 14, 2011
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I don't really see a problem with it, though I'm not er, into disabled people. (Not in the way that I'm specifically interested in them for that. I met a blind guy recently and he's really awesome.) As the poster above said, it's just saying that just because you aren't like everyone else, or you maybe have to do things differently, you aren't lesser because of it. You aren't handicapped, you are handi-capable!

(Also, on the point of fat-fetishism, there are many different facets and immobilization is a small/scary part of the community.)
 

F4LL3N

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overpuce said:
I do have problems with Katawa Shoujo. The characters are still school kids, a setting far too overdone and sexualized. And certainly the game contains sex. I know that is a reality of school life for teenagers, but you don't need to be so explicit about it. You need little more than to infer that something has happened and leave it at that. But certainly any issues I have with Katawa Shoujo is not the presence of the people being portrayed as love interests, being disabled.
In regards to the setting, from what I understand a High School setting could be perceived as more believable in that there are Elementary, Middle and High School that cater to students with physical, mental, emotional handicaps. I'm not necessarily sure that a University setting or post-University setting would be all that believable nor doable. Having High School students is a necessary evil in regards to having a believable setting. Again, not knowing the full story behind the development of the game, it's just my speculation.

LilithSlave said:
Well, let's bring this controversy to a close. If that's even possible on the internet. Or at least get everything out there.
Or maybe a lot of people are attracted to school kids, and it's really the same concept you's are describing concerning disabilities.

EDIT: Well written, btw.
 

LilithSlave

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Lucem712 said:
I don't really see a problem with it, though I'm not er, into disabled people. (Not in the way that I'm specifically interested in them for that. I met a blind guy recently and he's really awesome.)
Yeah, that I'm aware. I think I'm kinda the same. To me, I don't think that being disabled, unless one is severely mentally handicapped or dangerous, doesn't affect my attraction to them at all. If it is just physical, it doesn't affect the personality at all. And I think think things like, say, amputated limbs or scars on your face has made anyone less attractive to me, even initially.

To be honest, Katawa Shoujo seems more like it was done for diversity reasons if anything, rather than to be fetishizing. Like they just happened to be interested in writing a romance story about disabled people. Kind of like how Christine Love just happened to want to write about a Korean colony and A.I.
Lucem712 said:
(Also, on the point of fat-fetishism, there are many different facets and immobilization is a small/scary part of the community.)
Yeah. Definitely.

Sometimes, I feel like I want to be all for it, even though it's not to do with their personality. Just because fat people aren't considered pretty enough by society and would like to see a big "fat is beautiful" countercurrent. But then you run into those folks who seem to get off on the idea of fat people as immobile, and it's just like "Ew. Uh, no".
 

BathorysGraveland

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I have no idea what that video game is, but I'd say attraction to disabled people should be fine as far as common sense goes. Depending on the disability, I may or may not be able to actually feel attracted to them myself, but in the end of the day it's really the bond between two or more people that counts, ain't it?
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Well, if nothing else it certainly provides us with something that some sectors of the gaming community have been asking for: diversity of characters.

As to the setting, I actually thought they were in a University, but as long as there isn't any explicit sex I don't see a huge issue with it being a romance game.
 

Ordinaryundone

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The question is, are you attracted to them because of who they are, or because of their disability? Because the latter is definitely considered a fetish (and a niche one at that). Nothing wrong with it of course, but by definition a niche fetish is the exact opposite of "normalized". The same as BDSM, or furries, or whatever. Many would even argue that the fringe nature of these fetishes constitutes a portion of their appeal, even on a subconscious level.

There is nothing wrong for finding a disabled person attractive. However, finding them attractive, or fetishizing them due to their disability is slightly immoral. It's similar to only dating people with dark skin, or only dating women with big breasts. Everyone has their personal tastes, but at that point you've objectified the target of your affection. Many would think that making a "dating sim", with it's heavy association with eroge and hentai, to be exploitative of a real-life issue that faces many people.
 

pure.Wasted

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Ordinaryundone said:
There is nothing wrong for finding a disabled person attractive. However, finding them attractive, or fetishizing them due to their disability is slightly immoral. It's similar to only dating people with dark skin, or only dating women with big breasts. Everyone has their personal tastes, but at that point you've objectified the target of your affection. Many would think that making a "dating sim", with it's heavy association with eroge and hentai, to be exploitative of a real-life issue that faces many people.
Especially when the sim is not even from the perspective of the disabled character(s). That could have been, potentially, empowering. But the audience of this game isn't those disabled people, it's the normal people. And it's not even all normal people, as, being an eroge title, it's only going to have a niche appeal to begin with. So the people buying it aren't likely to be ones who need to be taught manners, political correctness, and basic humanity in the first place.
 

LilithSlave

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Gordon_4 said:
Well, if nothing else it certainly provides us with something that some sectors of the gaming community have been asking for: diversity of characters.
I'd certainly like to see more characters like this in games.

When was the last time you saw someone with scars on their face or missing limbs? Other than the times they try to make a character "over the top badass"(which I might add, doesn't happen as often to women), or even just blind?

Not all that often. Heck, there's probably some really inventive and interesting games you could make about blind people. But it's completely untapped. Sad.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Ordinaryundone said:
Many would think that making a "dating sim", with it's heavy association with eroge and hentai, to be exploitative of a real-life issue that faces many people.
While the vast majority of the Dating Sim/Virtual Novel genre is tied up in some rather infamous content, its probably the only genre you can get the idea of Kawata Shoujo to work in. As I understand it, the game is heavily into developing the characters and building relationships. Using that style allows you to court users already familiar with the style and stand as a bold and indeed respectable title to start draging the genre out of the mud.

pure.Wasted said:
Especially when the sim is not even from the perspective of the disabled character(s). That could have been, potentially, empowering.
Well, its baby steps, but I thought the protagonist had a heart condition which is why he's in the school in the first place.
 

Aoper

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Gordon_4 said:
Well, its baby steps, but I thought the protagonist had a heart condition which is why he's in the school in the first place.
He does, although people forget it because it's not as obvious as the other disabilities. The story is indeed (At least from the arcs that I've played) empowering to the main character as he gets over his own disability with the help of the girl the player chooses. It's really a situation of both characters bonding and helping each other get through their own problems, if you will.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Aoper said:
Gordon_4 said:
Well, its baby steps, but I thought the protagonist had a heart condition which is why he's in the school in the first place.
He does, although people forget it because it's not as obvious as the other disabilities. The story is indeed (At least from the arcs that I've played) empowering to the main character as he gets over his own disability with the help of the girl the player chooses. It's really a situation of both characters bonding and helping each other get through their own problems, if you will.
Well, thats good. I think?
 

pure.Wasted

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Aoper said:
Gordon_4 said:
Well, its baby steps, but I thought the protagonist had a heart condition which is why he's in the school in the first place.
He does, although people forget it because it's not as obvious as the other disabilities. The story is indeed (At least from the arcs that I've played) empowering to the main character as he gets over his own disability with the help of the girl the player chooses. It's really a situation of both characters bonding and helping each other get through their own problems, if you will.
I would argue that it not being "as obvious" was the point. If you wanted to overlook any Big Ideas this game had to offer, you were perfectly in your right to do so and enjoy it on the level of a dating sim catering to some of the more obscure fetishes. The game made that easy.

If the protagonist was, say, a wheelchair bound girl, then we'd have something subversive and conversation-worthy on our hands. But this "baby-step" is so small, it's questionable that it's a step at all, and not merely an excuse to get the guy into a veritable harem.
 

Gerishnakov

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Of course there's nothing wrong with being attracted to disabled people. Where things get weird is if you're attracted only to disabled people.
 

Dr Pussymagnet

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It takes place in a high school setting because depicting any other age group going through these problems would seem out of place. These aren't exactly problems adults or children have to worry about. The fact that the girls are also disabled just adds another dilemma for the main character on top of everything else.

Ah, but who am I kidding,

reading is 4 gaylords id rather smoke weed