Kicking Noobs

[Tarcolt]

I've Been playing A bit of TF2 recently, specifically the Mann Up mode,for those not familiar it is where you are put in a team of 6 and made to defend against wave after wave of enemys.

I hadn't played in a while so it was a bit of a shock to see people getting kicked for simply being new(It displays whether or not you have done it before) or for not following the Demands of another member of the team.

I thought that at the time this was a deplorable act, especially when the players themselves are only new at that form of the game, to be treated so harshly is unfair. I myself was nearly kick and was only saved because my friends made up half the server.

However the more I have played the less tolerant I seem to be of newer players. I have never had qualms with kicking a jerk or a troll, and maybe if someone is so bad that they simply should not be there yet, but now I stood by and watched a new player get kicked for no real reason.

I have been trying to come up with a way of justifying this, a structure to follow, but it isn't so black and white. my question is what would you all do? Would you stand up for the Noobs, Kick them out or try and find a middle ground and if so where does that space lie?

 

[Sir Pootis]

Ignoring the needs of the team, like playing as a class when the team has no need for it and being useless as a result, I can understand, but just not being good enough isn't really a justifiable reason.

 

[Rutabaga_swe]

I think kicking newbies just for being new or bad is a really shit attitude. However, it's also an attitude thing on behalf of the newbie, i think. People who are willing to admit that they are new and maybe not that great, they are usually alright. Because them knowing that they are shit usually means that they are willing to listen to the better players and learn. Many times in a DotA game you get stuck with bad players, but just bitching about doesn't really help. I always try to be constructive and helpful to people who don't know what they are doing.

I think the worst asshats are usually the sorta intermediate player. The kind that still kinda sucks, but thinks he is GOD. Every little mistake everyone else makes is the goddamn holocaust all over again and whenever the player in question makes a mistake, the team is to blame. New players are fine imo, so long as they aren't being willfully stupid or blinded by their frail little egos. We were all new to our favorite games at one time, so why not be a nice person and try to be friendly and helpful instead?

 

[Smooth Operator]

It is quite simple, every group needs it's own place.
You put newbies in with the newbies and veterans with the veterans, I don't want to be depended on when it's my first match and nor do I want to carry someone when we are going for expert play, there is a time and place for such things and everyone needs to find their own.

Of course most modern games only gives you the option of playing with random strangers which prevent any and all forming of solid communities... such wonderful design.

 

[madwarper]

I hadn't played in a while so it was a bit of a shock to see people getting kicked for simply being new(It displays whether or not you have done it before) or for not following the Demands of another member of the team.
[...]
I have been trying to come up with a way of justifying this, a structure to follow, but it isn't so black and white. my question is what would you all do? Would you stand up for the Noobs, Kick them out or try and find a middle ground and if so where does that space lie?

Ummm... You do know that "newb" is not the same thing as "noob"... Right? They are not interchangeable.

"Newb", or "newbie", is a contraction of new beginner. It's just someone how is new to something.
"Noob" is someone who has been doing something for a good long while, and is doing it wrong. And, when confronted with their wrongness, they dig their heels in and hide behind their tenure of being wrong.

Spoiler: MtG Example

Newb: I think the game plays this way.
Judge: No, the rules say otherwise.
Newb: Oh, I didn't know that, I'm new.

Noob: I think the game plays this way.
Judge: No, the rules say otherwise.
Noob: Oh, well... We have "house rules".

With that lesson in terminology aside...

Turning away a newb, simply because they haven't done it before, isn't exactly fair to the new person, but understandable in some situations, like in an MMO when a group is trying to grind out some instances for gear and don't want to be slowed down to explain it to the inexperienced.

Turning away a noob is perfectly fine.

 

[Tarcolt]

I think kicking newbies just for being new or bad is a really shit attitude. However, it's also an attitude thing on behalf of the newbie, i think. People who are willing to admit that they are new and maybe not that great, they are usually alright. Because them knowing that they are shit usually means that they are willing to listen to the better players and learn. Many times in a DotA game you get stuck with bad players, but just bitching about doesn't really help. I always try to be constructive and helpful to people who don't know what they are doing.

I think the worst asshats are usually the sorta intermediate player. The kind that still kinda sucks, but thinks he is GOD. Every little mistake everyone else makes is the goddamn holocaust all over again and whenever the player in question makes a mistake, the team is to blame. New players are fine imo, so long as they aren't being willfully stupid or blinded by their frail little egos. We were all new to our favorite games at one time, so why not be a nice person and try to be friendly and helpful instead?

This is pretty muck my thoughts on it. The guys I don't mind kicking are the ones who don't listen or who worse, order people about in ways that are obviously wrong to experienced players. I just joined a team who were set up awfully, and were asking really dumb questions and making poor decisions. I and my friends made an effort to advise them as we 3 were vastly more experienced, but to no avail. No One Was Kicked........ But we left. Hopefully them seeing players leave when they do not listen may make them more receptive to advice.

 

[Maximum Bert]

I dont usually play team games but when I do I wont kick someone from the team simply because they are new unless I have a very specific reason to do so which isnt likely. I dont think most people will mind tolerating and helping people who are new if they actually try and learn and just play the best they can. If they are team killing or just being total dicks to everyone then kicking them is fine but that applies to everyone.

In fighters I tend to welcome new players especially if its a game I am not that skilled at myself such as Tekken and if I am skilled at the game at least to the extent I am very confident I can beat new players like say Soul Calibur I will just switch characters and try and learn another one rather than have a boring one sided match with me dominating with my main. The only time I would kick new players if is it keeps pairing me up with them and they never adapt as this just makes it extremely boring and while I could just take the easy win I prefer having fun to winning.

The early levels of Tekken Revolution are like this I could not believe how many people just do one move over and over or just rinse and repeat the same tactics how is that fun? it dosent even work or then again maybe it does against some people unbelievably as some of these people werent even new and had like 200 wins somehow. Theres being new to the game and not knowing what the best moves are and what to use and theres playing very scrubbily (Kazuya and Law invincible spam is so annoying and actually very effective if it is mixed up a tiny amount...which they usually dont) I just dont get why they wont adapt not even a little bit.

 

[w9496]

I always feel bad for kicking people anyway, but I feel especially bad if it's a new person. When I host in PAYDAY 2. I usually do end up kicking them because I play such high level jobs that they won't even get anything from it.

If it's a more competitive game, I don't mind teaching people what I know and I'm not going to kick them unless they are deliberately being stupid.

 

[krazykidd]

It depends.

In co-op i don't mind carrying or giving pointers. That's how friends are made.

In competitive play, either step up or step out.

It doesn't help that matchmaking sucks balls in multiplayer games.

 

[GundamSentinel]

It all depends on why that person is the weak link. If he's bad because he's new and learning, fine. Show him some pointers and help eachother along. If he's bad because he refuses to follow group tactics or is just ill equipped for the challenge in general, I don't mind kicking them.

That said, I've seen people pull some real dick moves when kicking bad players, like kicking them right before a final dungeon reward. It usually isn't a bad thing to be honest about someone's skills, but stay nice and lend a helping hand, please.

 

[Longstreet]

I bloody loathe that, specially since all those pro hardcore gamers were once newbs themselves. You can't kick someone for just being new, otherwise he will never learn the game and never have the chance to grow.

Noobs however, let's say they keep tking on purpose, deserve to get hit by the door on the way out.

 

[In Search of Username]

Seems pretty unfair on the person unless they're playing badly deliberately. Or it's advertised as a server just for pros or something like that. I'm generally pretty bad at games and wouldn't appreciate not being allowed to play them because of it.

 

[Mr_Spanky]

I've been feeling this a lot in recent 14d2 games tbh. As a player with about 1300 hours it's easy to look at people who are new as being idiots. It's always worth, however, taking a step back and realising that I once was a noob as well and that kicking people does nothing to make them play more and learn more.

Rather than kick I try to instruct - let people people know (politely if you please) what they are doing wrong and try to help when they are in trouble.

There are some people in l4d2 these days though that simply rush from one end of the map to the other and never look back. I'm never sure whether such people are noobs or arrogant "pros" who don't want to wait or help their team. In this case I have no problem starting a kick vote.

L4D2 rules:
No. 1 Stay together
No. 2 Protect each other
No. 3 Go as fast as you can

People who violate these simple rules (when they should know better) I have no problem kicking. When it's simply because someone doesn't know the rules of the game and is trying to get better PLEASE people: instruct and admonish if you must. But DONT please kick. That serves no one expect your own desire to win. Hell, you can always find another game dammit.

I understand in versus it's a competitive game but try to not let that get ahead of you and destroy the fun of others. Honestly it serves no one but yourself.

 

[Tom_green_day]

If they're good or trying to be, keep them. If they aren't, kick them.

 

[Someone Depressing]

If they're arrogant and shit at the game, and make a huge fuss over getting kicked because they are hurting every else's enjoyment of the game, kick them. They're being a pain.

If they understand that they suck and are new at the game, they won't become skilled at it if they don't play. You'll become frustrated at them, but what can you do (other than kicking them which you shouldn't do)?

 

[HorrendusOne]

In some games not being able to pick up your slack makes life harder than it should be for every other player. So for those players it is a legit reason to kick that 1 person who is being the opposite of helpful despite why.

 

[jklinders]

Kicking someone only because they are new is not a whole lot different from shooting yourself in the foot.

Multiplayer games need players to be viable. People come and go from them all the time. If the server goes silent the game ends so is it really a good idea to put up a "no noobs" sign?

Now if a player is being obfuscatingly stupid, refuses coaching, gears wrong consistently, "needs" on shit that is not for his class even after being told that's a dick thing to do, refuses to act as part of a team and tried to "lone wolf" shit, then kick to your hearts content. But doing that because they are new and only because they are new is childish and ultimately destructive to the game you love.

 

[Fijiman]

If they're being absolutely worthless and not even trying to help the team, or even worse sabotaging the team, then I say kick them. Otherwise they can stay. However, you have to keep in mind that sometime you can simply be having a bad day on that game. For example, there have been days where I've kicked ass every direction I turn and then there have been day when I can't turn a corner without getting my face blasted out the back of my head.

 

[Flatfrog]

Only once in my life have I ever tried multiplayer gaming. I was getting very into Worms Armageddon and I thought I'd try out the multiplayer option. So I gave it a go and was dumped into a game. Oh my God, was it a culture shock. I was so used to playing against the game AI, playing against real people was quite an eye-opener. When one of them did an astonishing rope move and barrelled up into the air, throwing themselves at high speed from one end of the board to the other I couldn't help writing 'how the hell did you do that?!'

At which point, rather than laying into me as a noob, the players did something extraordinary. They terminated the game and set up a whole new board where they devoted nearly half an hour to training me in how to do these kinds of moves (which, incidentally, I never mastered despite all my best efforts). They gave me some pointers on how to develop my skills further, waved me goodbye and went their separate ways.

It was such a long way from the kind of thing I read about in games like CoD, I have to assume I was either amazingly lucky, or more likely that the Worms community is just much more welcoming. Anyway, despite that I decided I would never be a hardcore enough gamer to survive in a multiplayer world, and went back to my casual single-player life.

(Wow - I had to do about ten refreshes of the Captcha before it would give me something other than a shitty advert for Sky TV.)

 

[Alleged Despair]

Speaking as someone who frequents MvM I understand what you are talking about. I feel its a bit more complicated then just kicking someone with few tours though. I honestly don't care how many tours a person has I judge them by their skill, and just give them a chance to show it. I have liked people on their first tours and kicked people like 10 tours because they clearly just carried through them. While there is nothing inherently wrong with being new to mvm, the real root of the problem is when people who are new to MvM join tours that are not made for new people to join. For example a person's first experience should not be in 2 Cities and yet people do anyway. Those are the kinds of people that I will gladly kick because they need to know their place. When you are new you start small and easy, don't just jump in. At least as for as coop games go. On singleplayer games they can do whatever they want.