Kicking Noobs

[Ragsnstitches]

Only once in my life have I ever tried multiplayer gaming. I was getting very into Worms Armageddon and I thought I'd try out the multiplayer option. So I gave it a go and was dumped into a game. Oh my God, was it a culture shock. I was so used to playing against the game AI, playing against real people was quite an eye-opener. When one of them did an astonishing rope move and barrelled up into the air, throwing themselves at high speed from one end of the board to the other I couldn't help writing 'how the hell did you do that?!'

At which point, rather than laying into me as a noob, the players did something extraordinary. They terminated the game and set up a whole new board where they devoted nearly half an hour to training me in how to do these kinds of moves (which, incidentally, I never mastered despite all my best efforts). They gave me some pointers on how to develop my skills further, waved me goodbye and went their separate ways.

It was such a long way from the kind of thing I read about in games like CoD, I have to assume I was either amazingly lucky, or more likely that the Worms community is just much more welcoming. Anyway, despite that I decided I would never be a hardcore enough gamer to survive in a multiplayer world, and went back to my casual single-player life.

(Wow - I had to do about ten refreshes of the Captcha before it would give me something other than a shitty advert for Sky TV.)

I think it has more to do with the mentality a game like worms draws in. Worms is a slow(ish) paced game, which plays out in phases (or turns). It promotes thinking and patience. The game also exudes levity and good humor, so it's not surprising that the attitudes of players reflect it in such a way. That said, there are some bad apples in the worms community too, but that's a general rule of thumb for life, is it not.

In my opinion, it's not the presence or absence of thought/strategy that draws in hostile attitudes, but the pacing. Many competitive multiplayer games are ludicrously fast paced. Things can happen really fast. With this comes a sense of impatience. If something is grating against the flow people respond negatively.

And it goes both ways.

For example, you have veterans who rag on "noobs" for their more cautious and inefficient play, because they indirectly affect the flow of their game. Likewise some "noobs" moan about a variety of things (weapon choices, unorthodox tactics or rank) and claim they are unfair, because they can't keep up with the pace set by the veteran players. This creates a lot of frustration for all involved, it's never managed properly and inevitably leads to toxicity.

As others have said, the only solution is to separate the groups. Unfortunately that is far tougher to execute, at least in a seamless, automated way. A lot of games with large followings that also allow for private servers to host matches, often do matchmaking within the community (such as within or between Clans) and play them out in private matches. But that still leaves a huge void where the nebulous "noob" exists and who aren't always "casual".

 

[Nathaniel Grey]

I'll never forget this day. I was playing Gears of War execution and as soon as I got into the room the guy said "Look man, you got two rounds to get 1 kill. If you don't have it by then you're getting kicked." I responded "Okay." Your frustration is completely justified. If you're trying to win the superbowl and everyone on your team is working towards that goal, yet one man is dropping balls, causing fumbles, throwing interceptions, you want to get rid of that guy and get some other guy who may or may not be more helpful. All you know is, the guy who is here has to go. I'm pretty sure they had to do something explicit to be branded as NEW. Unless they gave up that information willingly. The act of kicking someone may seem harsh but what that does is compels them to be better. It truly does. No one likes being kicked for being bad. Especially in a game they like. I know multiple games in which the level of gameplay has dropped because no one can kick anyone for their bad habits. Curse Matchmaking.

 

[Jeroenr]

I hadn't played in a while so it was a bit of a shock to see people getting kicked for simply being new(It displays whether or not you have done it before) or for not following the Demands of another member of the team.
[...]
I have been trying to come up with a way of justifying this, a structure to follow, but it isn't so black and white. my question is what would you all do? Would you stand up for the Noobs, Kick them out or try and find a middle ground and if so where does that space lie?

Ummm... You do know that "newb" is not the same thing as "noob"... Right? They are not interchangeable.

"Newb", or "newbie", is a contraction of new beginner. It's just someone how is new to something.
"Noob" is someone who has been doing something for a good long while, and is doing it wrong. And, when confronted with their wrongness, they dig their heels in and hide behind their tenure of being wrong.

Spoiler: MtG Example

Newb: I think the game plays this way.
Judge: No, the rules say otherwise.
Newb: Oh, I didn't know that, I'm new.

Noob: I think the game plays this way.
Judge: No, the rules say otherwise.
Noob: Oh, well... We have "house rules".

With that lesson in terminology aside...

Turning away a newb, simply because they haven't done it before, isn't exactly fair to the new person, but understandable in some situations, like in an MMO when a group is trying to grind out some instances for gear and don't want to be slowed down to explain it to the inexperienced.

Turning away a noob is perfectly fine.

There ar a lot of online players who need a riminder of this, it seems.

I play World of tanks a lot, and do so from the beta on.
At first al players were learning, and a "GG" was about the extent of the chat.
But now, a lot of those players think they are "Rommel" and the rest are idots.
Experienced player seems less tolerant to new players.

Granded, people do stupit stuff.
But they start yelling at people like they are the sole reason the team lost.(Thank god, no voice chat outside platoons)
If your team loses 15-3, chances are the fault doesn't lay by 1 person.
Saw people realy lossing it more than once.

personally,i even been shot by teammate's for ignoring them.


There is a complaint system, But this often results in false bot accusations to "noobs"

fortunly Players can't kick players.
Or people would be kickt for having the stock gun on the tank.
Or not responding to the highlight on the minimap ar their location(like i instanly knowe what they meant).


But i Think this goes for a lot of games were people spend a lot of time on.
they tend to take the game a little more serious than they should.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Of course most modern games only gives you the option of playing with random strangers which prevent any and all forming of solid communities... such wonderful design.

And then they claim it is meant to strengthen the community...

OT: I think it depends on the player. A new player who is trying to learn, get better, and do what they can for the team should definitely be allowed. Sure, the veteran players might be pulled down a little bit, but they also offer the best opportunity for the player to learn and get better. However, a new player that has no intention on learning, getting better, or doing what little they can for the team probably should be kicked, but that goes for any player who exhibits that mentality. So I wouldn't kick a new player simply for being new, but I would watch to see what his behavior is like, possibly even more since he has the greater potential to hurt the team if he doesn't plan on doing what needs to be done.

 

[Azure23]

I initially thought this was a thread about griefing new players, and had a few anecdotes in mind, oh well, still relevant.

We were all noobs once, and the second any one of us picks up a new game, we're noobs again, it's silly to pretend otherwise. If you're playing a team game and your team is suffering because someone is being willfully stupid then thats one thing, but if they genuinely don't know what they're doing it's to everyone's benefit to give them a hand. Sometimes people accuse noobs of being scrubs, most likely they're just scared of losing and being made fun of.

I was playing some Dark Souls the other night (as I am wont to do) and I was hosting in the forest killing random invaders, I wasn't ganking or anything, but I was using a pretty high level Leeroy build. I get invaded by this forest hunter and her runs into my sight, looks like he's using a falchion and the starting mage armor. Now I didn't assume he was a noob right away, plenty of people use the starting armors they aren't any less viable. He runs into view, sees me resplendant in gold armor and white robes with a big, fuck off hammer, and runs away, hiding in the woods. At this point I'm rather incensed, I'd been dealing with forest hunter gankers all day and as a member of that covenant on many toons myself it hurts to see my brethren so lacking in honor. Anyway he's off hiding so I send him a message deriding his cowardice and asking him if he's waiting for some reinforcements to gank me. He responded in the affirmative but added with honesty that he was sure he couldn't take me 1v1 as he was basically a starting mage barely at level 25. I told him that as an invader all he would lose is time if he died, while I was putting both my souls and humanity on the line as a host. He replied saying that he hadn't actually thought of it that way and came and fought me. I destroyed him easily, as we were both sure of, but when next he invaded I dropped some upgraded enchanted weaponry and a crystal catalyst for him, for which he was very greatful. Anyway now he's on my friends list and we co-op all the time (he's gotten much better).

In summary, be nice to noobs, give them a helping hand and youll make a friend who's fun to play the game with.

 

[Foolery]

No. You don't kick new players. That's called being an unnecessary shitbird. Really, the only time you should kick someone is if they're behaving like a dick. Everyone was new once. Be kind, help them. Online games shouldn't be serious business. Make a private server if inexperienced players bother you that much.

 

[Jeroenr]

OH FOR FUCKS SAKE I JUST MADE A POST ABOUT THIS..... N00B IS NOT, I REPEAT; IS NOT NEWBIE....
NOOOOOOOO
N00B = A PERSON THAT HAS THOROUGHLY PLAYED A GAME AND STILL SUCKS AT IT.
NEWBIE = A PERSON PLAYING A NEW VIDEOGAME, THAT STILL IS IN THE BASIC LEARNING PROCESS.

GODDAMNIT WHY IS IT SO HARD TO INSERT THIS IN YOUR LITTLE MINDS!!!

Well, you say that (more like yell it).
But most dictionaries disagree with you, including the oxford dictionary.
https://www.google.nl/?gws_rd=cr&ei=HfbjUpbnKMfK0QXwsYHwDQ#q=definition+of+noob

Not saying i'm disagreing with you, i'm not.
but you cant really blame someone for misusing a term if the definition of that term is vague at best.

Ps. Some sites give over use of caps Lock as a sign of a NOOB.
(just saying.)

 

[Coakle]

Mann vs Machine is co-op right? Why would I care? If I'm playing a co-op arcade game and some newbie wants to play with me, I wouldn't tell him to get lost. I think your initial reaction was the correct one.

Kicking someone just because they are new at the game is an overreaction.

 

[Bad Jim]

Mann vs Machine is co-op right? Why would I care? If I'm playing a co-op arcade game and some newbie wants to play with me, I wouldn't tell him to get lost.

Arcade games work a little differently though.

1) They are designed to work with whoever happens to be in the arcade. They don't require complicated teamwork, each player generally just shoots/bashes the enemies until they're dead. Bad players just die more.

2) There is a negative consequence for bad play, that you have to feed in more money. This tends to make the worst players either improve or stop playing. They cannot just ignore teammates advice and get all defensive, because they will still be spending a lot of money.

3) The sort of play that enrages other players, such as being a power-up ninja, is a lot easier for experienced players to do to newbies than for newbies to do to experienced players.

4) Telling a bad player to get lost would probably result in the management telling you to get lost.

5) If the management didn't complain and the bad player left, you probably won't have anyone replacing him which will make the game harder, not easier.

 

[Tarcolt]

Mann vs Machine is co-op right? Why would I care? If I'm playing a co-op arcade game and some newbie wants to play with me, I wouldn't tell him to get lost.

Arcade games work a little differently though.

1) They are designed to work with whoever happens to be in the arcade. They don't require complicated teamwork, each player generally just shoots/bashes the enemies until they're dead. Bad players just die more.

2) There is a negative consequence for bad play, that you have to feed in more money. This tends to make the worst players either improve or stop playing. They cannot just ignore teammates advice and get all defensive, because they will still be spending a lot of money.

3) The sort of play that enrages other players, such as being a power-up ninja, is a lot easier for experienced players to do to newbies than for newbies to do to experienced players.

4) Telling a bad player to get lost would probably result in the management telling you to get lost.

5) If the management didn't complain and the bad player left, you probably won't have anyone replacing him which will make the game harder, not easier.

This^

Perhaps the online co-op needs to have a 'manager' perhaps a way to hold players with bad attitudes accountable, maybe by equally douchey players getting matched up (one or two games are already doing that) or maybe a temporary play suspension.

 

[Launcelot111]

This reminds me of when ARAM games weren't an official mode in League of Legends, so whenever you tried to join a custom ARAM lobby and you weren't level 30 or you didn't have 500 wins under your belt or whatever, more often than not the creater of the game would boot you. All this despite the fact that characters would be doled out randomly and that whoever got lucky with their champions usually decides the match far more than player skill

 

[Vegosiux]

This reminds me of when ARAM games weren't an official mode in League of Legends, so whenever you tried to join a custom ARAM lobby and you weren't level 30 or you didn't have 500 wins under your belt or whatever, more often than not the creater of the game would boot you. All this despite the fact that characters would be doled out randomly and that whoever got lucky with their champions usually decides the match far more than player skill

And that it was entirely a "faffing about" mode, as it still is, more suited for light-hearted time killing than anything serious...