Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[Tipsy Giant]

Aaaand cue the people defending this sort of shit.

This stuff happens all the time in the gaming community and it needs to be pointed out and heckled as much as possible.

Hopefully, the gaming community will be dragged kicking and screaming towards a point where this kind of crap is at least frowned upon. (But I am sure I will be called `extreme` for even thinking there is a problem).

And then all you have is music and movies to contend with.

I'm all for progress but I find it odd that you could release the same game in movie form and see no controversy.

I'm sorry, what?

I'm not talking about specific games. I'm not even talking about the documentary. I'm talking about the crappy misogyny in the community. That is the shit that needs to go away.

I think the problem with the gaming community is the adults assume the kids posting vile things are adults too.
They are 13 year old idiots, a vocal minority. I hope the real adult gaming community has passed the immaturity these youtubers are displaying

 

[Tipsy Giant]

I'm interested in hearing what she has to say for the "man with boobs" episode. I've heard this criticism leveled before, but I've never heard anyone back it up in any meaningful way. It usually strikes me as the people who are invested in complaining about female characters finally getting one who isn't shoved into the usual female stereotype boxes and realizing how shitty most male characters actually are.

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into? They're equally rooted in traditional gender stereotypes. Some say that it's okay because their qualities are "positive", but I think they're actually just as harmful to structure an identity around as their female equivalents (in fact, why do we consider these positive traits? Why are we so down on the traits traditionally considered feminine?). Actually, they might be more directly harmful, because the stereotypical male identity revolves around personal sacrifice, the denial of one's own pain and emotions, and violence. I'm not saying people shouldn't be talking about how female characters are portrayed, but why is no one doing the same for male characters? The closest I've ever heard someone come to that was as an aside during that PAX "women in games" event.

Does anyone think that their might be a direct relation between female characters getting stuck in these stereotypical roles and the same happening with male characters? Is there any merit to a more holistic approach? "Gender roles in video games" as opposed to just "women in games" or "men in games"?

Sounds like an interesting idea, you should research and flesh it out and make a video, i'd be interested to watch it.
captcha = lickety-split lol

 

[itsthesheppy]

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into? They're equally rooted in traditional gender stereotypes. Some say that it's okay because their qualities are "positive", but I think they're actually just as harmful to structure an identity around as their female equivalents (in fact, why do we consider these positive traits? Why are we so down on the traits traditionally considered feminine?). Actually, they might be more directly harmful, because the stereotypical male identity revolves around personal sacrifice, the denial of one's own pain and emotions, and violence.

I'm sorry, just so I'm clear, is what you're saying here that male characters have it just as bad because they are always depicted as selfless heroes who, regardless of their personal struggles, work for the greater good and save the day? Are you really saying that's just as bad as female characters, who typically serve as either window dressing or victims, or both?

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

Great. Once again, the internet provides a reason for me to be ashamed of my penis.
Why are there still men incapable of understanding women are also people? And then the rest of us are assosciated with them. Wonderful, thanks misognyism.

I can't really summarise this with anything better than Ugh.
Actually "Fuck those guys" is a close second.

 

[cieply]

Oh "gaming community".

You're just upset because no-one touches your penis, aren't you?

Oh, you preson sitting on a high horse.

I've seen some of her videos and they are atrocious, feminist pseudo intellectual bile that spews out of your monitor. I had enough clarity of mind not to leave her a comment (although I'm not sure, I was pretty mad at that time) but trust me, she IS infuriating.

Obviously, responses like ones she gets are just as bad, but that doesn't make her any less better.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

 

[itsthesheppy]

"so you're a bolshevik feminist jewess that hates White people and does website design for Tim Wise extremist platform and you expect to be taken seriously when you're "critique-ing" video games," writes charming YouTube user, Haploguy. [http://www.youtube.com/user/haploguy]

Anyone who takes this seriously and not as some guy on /b/ posting for a few giggles is a moron. I fucking hate all these fucking people taking the fucking internet so fucking seriously. Jesus fuck, can't a man write something as a fucking joke if it offends your overly sensitive fucking minds?
I'm staying neutral on the Misogynistic stuff.

You cannot just sweep these comments under the table because "Oh, they're just youtube comments, those are always terrible, no harm done, just ignore them. They're just trolls."

These aren't bots, guys. These comments don't just manifest out of the cosmic ether. They form independently in the brains of actual human beings who type them out and post them. I imagine you could count the number of people posting these comments who don't actually believe a word of what they are saying on one hand. Or no hands.

Every single one of those comments manifested from the brain of an individual who in whole or in part believes what they are saying is either funny or poignant, and either way it represents a cancer on society. You cannot just ignore these people, because they pay taxes, they vote, they interact with other humans beings daily and like it or not, they have an equal say in our societal makeup that you do.

They are participating in the conversation. The things they are saying are, in my opinion, terrible and worthy only of the most focused and withering disdain. But if you see comments like that and you don't push back, it is the same as tacitly endorsing them. Civilization is naught but the amalgamation on all of our opinions, and in some cases those opinions are reached via two teams pushing the needle one direction or another. If you believe that women should be treated equally, and if you believe they should be free of sexual and sexist harassment, but do *nothing*, then you are passively supporting the negative side. Because I hate to break it to you, but there are a LOT more of them than there are of us.

If someone says "women should be in the kitchen making me sandwiches" and you do NOT respond, then congratulations, you are stamping your endorsement on what they said. I don't push back when people say that puppies are adorable. I don't push back if people say that pollution is bad for the planet. I don't push back when people say 'let's all have free ice cream!'. Because I support these things. But when someone, anyone, trolling or not, internet or not, attacks and harasses anyone because of their gender or sexual orientation or so on, I will push back because I don't want that stuff in the society I want to live in.

 

[mad825]

The project itself is sexist.

Yes, females are more commonly exploited but how many male muscle heads do we see? Why is the "documentary" about females being hosted by just a female from a female's perspective representing females?

 

[itsthesheppy]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Exactly. The comments, for the most part, don't discuss whether or not her point of view is valid, or whether the documentary would be worthwhile, they just come out swinging about how she's a Jew that needs a good dicking...except she's a lesbian and the commenters wouldn't fuck her, anyway.

Disagreeing with her point of view is fine, as is thinking her Kickstarter is a lousy idea. This isn't about whether or not her point of view is correct, it's about the sheer level of vitriol being directed at her. People frequently claim there's no sexism in gaming communities...well, take a look, gang. It's out there and it's ugly. Just saying "we knew this would happen" and shrugging it off isn't enough. Maybe some readers aren't "learning anything" because they're aware this goes on, but perhaps we educate some who truly didn't know it got this bad.

But there's a deeper problem we encounter when faced with this. Even those of us that listen to the disparity that exists between gender portrayal with the mind to change things have very little effect against the tsunami of ignorant bile that these people project. We can support the projects, yes, and spread awareness, and we can try and instruct others that the portrayal of one of the walking meat slabs that are the varied space marines and foot soldiers of popular gaming are not an equivalent set of problems as bikini-clad martial artists, and show them that even assuming so is a fallacy, but like a tsunami, it's hard to fight, it's easiest to board up, wait until the worst is over, and start recovering. We can ignore it, and filter out the parts of the community that are reasonable and those that are jeering because they find jeers to be a form of communication, but the insipid shouting of these asshats is exponentially louder than our discourse asking what can be done to rectify this inequality. Quite simply, we don't know how to fight it, as a community. Game devs can help more than we can, but foregoing a character creation sheet ripped from TVTropes is apparently something hard to do, and it's gonna take more than just a couple of competent, goal-oriented, real female characters to get this ball rolling. As a society, we're not good at actually confronting problems, and that gets even more compounded in communities like ours, one build around consequence-free anonymity. Right now, our only recourse is ignoring it, turning a blind eye, and that's not how to stop unwanted behavior. Unfortunately, we don't have many other feasible ways to stifle this behavior.

You misunderstand my point. I don't really care one way or the other if you support the project - ultimately, target of the harassment isn't the point. You do have the ability to impact the behavior. I'm not talking about the ability to get characters made different, I mean the ability to get people to behave more like rational human beings. When you see someone acting like this - say something. Call them out. Make it known that this kind of bile is unacceptable. Whether or not you believe in the project, you surely don't support people acting this way - that's what news posts like this are meant to illustrate.

There was a panel at PAX about online harassment, and as people filed in, a number of messages sent over Xbox Live were displayed in a slide show on the front screen. Very similar comments to the ones featured here. After the very large crowd was assembled, the moderator asked how many people were surprised to learn that things got said. About a third of the people in the room raised their hands. So there are still people out there who don't know that this kind of abject hatred happens. The more people who are aware of it, the more who are ready and able to say "No. You don't get to treat people like that."

This isn't about changing the industry, or videogame characters. This is about demanding that people be treated like people, even when you disagree with them.

 

[MrMan999]

Honestly, despite the trolling, there is some legitimate critisism to be had here. First off, you can make the videos for free. You don't need to abuse Kickstarter to make something that costs nothing to make. I can understand wanting to make a buck, but theres a line that has been crossed somewhere
Second, why is it only videogames that are subjected to this type of thing? You don't see youtube documentaries called "Tropes vs Women in film" or "Tropes vs Women in books". Is it because videogames are the new kid on the block? I just feel that videogames are unfairly subjected to this type of scrutiny when books, movies and music have used the same female archetypes for decades if not centuries.
Third, There are a lot of compelling female characters in videogames. You just have to know where to look. (I.E. Alyx Vance from Half Life, Hammer from Fable 2, Heather Mason from Silent Hill 3)
Fourth, whats wrong with a little cheesecake in videogames now and again? Its not like its hurting anyone. Although I will admit that sometimes the fanservice can get to the point where it stops being sexy and just becomes disturbing.

Anyway, thats my opinion on the matter.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

And yet the Smurfette principle applies to movies like Inception... Do you actually know what the Smurfette principle is?

Yes and it's an inane idea. Here, do this for me, look up a dozen movies or shows designed for women--you know, chick flicks, romantic comedies, reality TV. Count the number of women in them. Now count the number of men. Was there any men? Count the number of them that aren't handsome, toned, charming and desirable.

Why is this news to anyone? Guys like to hang out with guys. Girls like to hang out with girls. By the age of about six, with no outside influence, children begin to separate themselves by gender and play almost solely with those of their own sex.

Some women spend so much time playing victim and talking about their sex, they forget that we're all human. Feminists can be the most sexist people on the planet; no one else goes out of their way to identify their gender and talk about it as much as feminists. So how about we all care less about who's a man and who's woman, and start seeing each other as human.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.