Kill 24 people, Get three months in Jail. God Bless America.

[waj9876]

You are now whoever is second to the king. Let's hope the USA doesn't invade looking for their weapons of mass destruction.

Congratulations. JoJoDeathunter is now your queen.

In all seriousness...I'm not going to say a damn thing about this. I wasn't there. I don't know the full story. No one knows the full story.

Also, those blaming the entirety of America...Why ya gotta hate on Canada and Mexico? Sure, what we here in the Unites States of America are letting happen is completely and utterly fucked up, but the entirety of America? That's two damn continents. And a whole lot of people to hate.

 

[Agayek]

Actualy, Al Qaeda did declare war to the US way before 9/11, they just didn't take seriusly
so, how about that? it makes 9/11 more tollerable to you?

Seeing as Al Qaeda has no standing to declare war, not really.

Beyond that, 9/11 was an unprovoked (to the best of my knowledge at least) attack on noncombatants. The nukes were dropped as an alternative to spending tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands of lives taking Japan one island at a time.

Would it have been better if both had been avoided? Yes. That doesn't mean you can draw valid comparisons between the two.

Now, if a similar attack such as 9/11 were to occur, then you would indeed have a leg to stand on. Fortunately, such a thing has not happened yet.

 

[ThatDarnCoyote]

Maybe they were sweeping rooms so fast they didnt take the time to check their targets?

Somehow I doubt they were going so fast if they took the time to go for headshots. If we are to take the news to the letter, this was an act of sheer revenge, plain and simple.

Yeah, you have a point about the whole headshots thing.

I admit my knowledge of this case is somewhat cursory, but people are overthinking the headshot thing. It's important to note that no autopsies [http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/lack-of-autopsies-in-haditha-case-presents-challenges/article_c80b4f5b-de22-5399-b371-f1ec207b28ec.html] were ever performed on the dead from Haditha. The descriptions of the wounds are based on the death certificates, which were likely prepared by people who never examined the bodies, based on secondhand reports. As far as I can tell, no hard forensic evidence of this kind was presented at the trial.

EDIT: I was mistaken about the death certificates' basis. The bodies were examined by a doctor, believed to be Dr. Walid Al-Obeidi, general director of Haditha General Hospital. However, it still appears that this was a superficial examination, and there is no record that any autopsies were done.

As always with these things, "people died from gunshot wounds to the head and chest", mutates into, "everyone was shot in both the head and the chest", then into "they were shot in the head at point-blank range, which proves this was murder".

Another quick point that a lot of people in this thread seem to be confused by. SSgt. Wuterich didn't "get 3 months for killing 24 people", because he was not found guilty of killing 24 people. The charge he was convicted of was dereliction of duty, based on the wording of orders he gave to the Marines under his command.

For what it's worth, it seems reasonable to me that the killings in the houses were based on an aggressive reaction to a perceived threat. The killing of the men in the taxi seems more questionable, based on the testimony of the Iraqi sergeant who was patrolling with the Marines. But again, not having read the full trial transcripts, I don't know whether there was other testimony that contradicted it.

 

[Agayek]

I don't know whether the soldiers went on a killing spree or if they just acted on instinct (headshots are pretty much the default for army types, aren't they?). As others pointed out: if you don't know if you can trust a crying woman and her children because once in a while they grab an uzi and shoot you in the back when you let them live, you might just decide sparing them isn't worth the risk when you can't think straight. Punishing the soldiers for that would be just as evil as sending them out there unprepared in the first place.

Soldiers are trained to shoot for center of mass, far less likelihood of missing, just as lethal, and easier to train people to do. Headshots are generally a sign of them acting against their training.

That said, you have a point here. It's rather hard to tell insurgents from civvies, so it's understandable to go for the scorched earth approach. Not good by any means, but understandable.

 

[manic_depressive13]

America: Now known as a state.

Hahahahahaha! If you're going to act smug at least get your facts straight first. America is a sovereign state comprised of fifty federated states and one federal district. Go to school and get back to me kid.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

Beyond that, 9/11 was an unprovoked (to the best of my knowledge at least) attack on noncombatants.

Well provocation is pretty damn subjective...but the last 40 years of American foreign policy has fucked over enough people to give anyone some debatable level of "provocation".

 

[Erttheking]

Oh for the love of, I'M NOT PROUD OF IT OK!? Focus on the assholes and not those that surround them, I'm pissed off too you know. More these guys are assholes and less every last American is a cheeseburger eating flag waving cowboy, thank you very much.

 

[Jegsimmons]

ok, i love the military, and respect them, and detest everyone who speaks ill of them, but thats fucked up.

dude should get life at minimum

 

[Jegsimmons]

Oh for the love of, I'M NOT PROUD OF IT OK!? Focus on the assholes and not those that surround them, I'm pissed off too you know. More these guys are assholes and less every last America is a cheeseburger eater flag waving cowboy, thank you very much.

THIS!!! JESUS CHRIST THIS!!!

 

[Atmos Duality]

Even the US Military has laws and its own justice department.
But as with any other law, it depends entirely on who is enforcing them.

 

[jdun]

It's well known that the american military can do whatever the fuck it wants.
I still hope somebody who's not a complete asshole takes power and starts running stuff like it's supposed to be ran.

To give an example, Brazil is one hell of a violent and underdeveloped country, but policemen and soldiers are actually prosecuted and incarcerated as they should (at least some times) when they pull off s**t like this. I still have to see a policemen get arrested in the states for anything he does to the public.

many countries do such atrocities.
but you are right, americans seem to get away with this shit more easily.

well lets hope darpa finally can develope the EATR.

Go watch videos of what the Russians did in Chechen War. This is nothing. The Russian will laugh at the Western critics. Pissing on dead Taliban is nothing. The Russians did a lot worst to dead and alive Chechens. Yet no one whine about it in Russia.

 

[WeAreStevo]

Ugh...this entire situation sickens me.

I love how America uses terrorism (in this instance, slaughtering 24 innocent civilians in cold blood because you're "angry and upset" or whatever the fuck) and it's a-ok, but when an Islamic extremist uses terrorism (say a car bomb) its as if the world is going to end!

The double standards are appalling, and quite frankly I am disappointed that the military didn't make further example of these people by sentencing them appropriately. To write this off as simply "well...war is intense, and these people were probably scared and didn't realize what they were doing etc." shouldn't matter.

It harks back to the Twinkie defense used by Dan White. Just because you are in a situation that is intense does not give you the go ahead to slaughter innocent people.

And yet so many Americans wonder why the world hates us. It's time we practice what we preach. Instead of slapping these people on wrist and saying "no. Bad soldier" we need to show them (and the world) that we take terrorist actions committed by American citizens just as seriously as we do others.

 

[Laser Priest]

I think (by which I mean I hope) there may be more to it than this.

If not, then this is truly disgusting.

 

[Kurt Horsting]

I'm an american and I think this is fucking embarassing. His unit should be serving life for war crimes. It sucks what happend to them, but you don't go ordering your unit to murder 24 civilians. That's just fucked up.

 

[jdun]

There are always two side of the coin. Thanks to the internet and google, those that aren't lazy can read the other side of the coin.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830386/posts

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/haditha/

There is more but you can google it.

 

[jdun]

I'm an american and I think this is fucking embarassing. His unit should be serving life for war crimes. It sucks what happend to them, but you don't go ordering your unit to murder 24 civilians. That's just fucked up.

No they shouldn't be given any prison time at all. What you're reading is one side of the story. Go do a search on the fight.