Kill la Kill - Episode 17 discussion/analysis [SPOILERS AHEAD]

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Zak757

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Oct 12, 2013
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Last weeks episode had me and a bunch of others on here traumatized with the most uncomfortable bathing scene to date, but we're back to saving anime with a moment that was fucking euphoric. And I'm not talking about fedora-tipping type of euphoria either, I'm talking about the genocidal-molester-mom-gutted-and-crucified kind of euphoria.



I knew it was coming a mile away, I just didn't expect it to be so quick, so soon, and so... satisfying. I think having Ragyo dress up like a freaky clown (looks like Kefka/Rita Repulsa) helped to a degree. Satsuki is best girl. Of course, I don't expect Ragyo's "death" to last very long. Satsuki's words were "we're rebelling against you" but not "we have overthrown you," and we still have 7 episodes to go. But more importantly, this exchange happened [http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz162/halofreak759/1391729667022_zps855693b5.png] before the Grand Festival. Ragyo asks Nui to dress up nicely, but comes to the show wearing the same thing she wore before. We all know Nui is the god of ruse and chaos, so I think it will mostly likely turn out that the Ragyo which Satsuki stabbed was just one of Nui's puppets or Nui in disguise. Alternatively, Ragyo might just not die and come down from her ironic crucifix, but that would be lame and not very Trigger-y, given that they like to throw in twists that are foreshadowed beforehand.

EDIT: I noticed that Ragyo quoted the witches of MacBeth when referring to Nui. "Fair is foul and foul is fair." Any idea what that could mean?

Speaking of foreshadowing twists, I think I see another one coming. We learn that Ryuko is the only one that is able to hear and wear Senketsu because her DNA has been spliced into Senketsu. Except that isn't necessarily true, because in one moment you might have forgotten, Tsumugu heard him talk [https://24.media.tumblr.com/22dbc3d46e21df61cbf2163d946a03cd/tumblr_n0lls9lvgZ1rn5r0eo4_1280.jpg] back in episode 5. The blue eyes + black hair + red streaks was a bit of a stretch, but I think this confirms that Tsumugu and Ryuko are related. Worst uncle(?) ever. We also learn that the reason he is such a dick to Senketsu is because Kinue (remember the episode 5 flashback?) was eaten by failed version of him. Also, if Tsumgu is somewhat compatible with Senketsu, does that mean this nudist beefcake will eventually wear him? Sweet dreams, gay KLK fans!

I'm liking Ryuko's response to the whole thing. She basically says exactly what the audience is thinking this episode [http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3693/12352138924_0e976d8c93_o.gif]. Ryuko is a simple minded person (not dumb, just simple) with simple goals that are justified with simple reasons, and she tends to fixate on said goals heavily. Dad got killed by someone? Find the killer and kill them. People standing in the way? Beat them up. Make a new friend? Help them because they are your friend. Not getting the details you want? Ask louder. Friend stolen? Get your friend back. Can't defeat your enemy? Get stronger. Nudist terrorists using you as a weapon? Refuse because using people as a weapon is bad. But now she's a big part of some grandiose battle that she never wanted to be in, and as of this episode, her biggest rival has just stabbed the one responsible for the distribution of life fibers. Seriously, the first thing she does when entering the stadium, despite the fact that A LOT more is clearly going on right in front of her, is yell at Satsuki to make the clothes stop eating people. Oh Ryuko, you and your one track mind. Right after Satsuki stabs Ragyo, her reaction amounts to a confused "what the fuck?!" since her actions don't add up of all the assumptions she had about Satsuki. Ryuko has gotten a lot of character development sure, but all of it has been strengthening her strengths and weakening her weaknesses, but she is still the same Ryuko we saw in episode 1. Now she actually has to change, now that it isn't all so black and white. Trigger said that Ryuko would stop being a teenage girl and enter the adult world, maybe this is what they were talking about.

This is definetly building up to a Ryuko/Satsuki team up. Both of them are strong young woman being manipulated and exploited by large organizations, both of which were created by their parents who forced their goals upon them and have very extreme solutions to a problem in mind, and both want to take a third option. If I had to guess what that third option was, I'd say we look back to episode 5 again. Kinue suggested "co-existence" with clothing, and while life fibres have generally been shown to be parasitic symbiotes, Senketsu is proof that it doesn't have to be that way. The new opening strengthens my argument, which shows "Team Ryuko" and "Team Satsuki" moving along two seperate red carpets side by side (I like the whole fashion show set up), both of which never actually cross and end at "Team Ragyo." Two paths, two methods, one ending?

Anyway, that was my analysis. You can find a lot more thought out and in-depth ones across the internet but I don't have any links to them :p What were your thoughts?
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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I do wonder why Satsuki waited until after the entire populous was devoured by life fibers to begin her rebellion instead of before if she's so pure in intention.

Also, Ragyo is obviously not dead (if you watch the episode 18 teaser after the credits). However, I think her wounds will simply mend because she's... "integrated" with the original life fiber and probably has the ability to weave her wounds back together. I also forget if it's established if Satsuki's sword has the ability to cut life fibers or not.

All that said I'm ready for the show to get "back to it" as it were. The last episodes, while not uneventful, were pretty massive exposition dumps and it sort of felt like we haven't really progressed the timeline a whole lot.

Also, I want someone to punch Nui right in the face. I realize she was obviously designed to be highly irritating, but holy shit is she highly irritating.

My favourite part of episode 17 was the dialog between Gamagori and Mako's family. That was gold.
 

Fappy

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Weaver said:
My favourite part of episode 17 was the dialog between Gamagori and Mako's family. That was gold.
I was laughing my ass off during that part.

OT: Good episode with some legitimately great moments. Most cathartic brutality I have seen in a long time, for sure. Let's hope these final seven episodes can hit it out of the park. I really want this series to have a satisfying ending, both thematically and character-wise.

Also, is this turning into a thing where we make a thread every episode now? If so, I am on board. I only have my sister to talk about KLK with IRL :p
 

Scarim Coral

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Danm, that is a whole wall of text, I almost TL:DR (yes I did read it in the end)!

Anyway the twist didn't suprised me thanks to someone making that predition from the last Kill La Kill thread but in saying so I knew Satsuki wouldn't be the type to bow down to her mother that easily or do whatever she say.

Also from the look of the preview, I'm pretty sure Ragyo isn't down for the count (it either look like she can self regernate thanks to the life fibre or the OP is right that the Clown cosplay Ragyo is a puppert/ fake.

I also getting a feeling that Ragyo is going to control the Elite Four (I mean they are wearing life fibre and are still below Satsuki in terms of will power/ resistant to it given to that primand diagram in the episode).

Also that cliffhanger from the last episode came to an anticlimatic thanks to Mako.

Lastly, I wonder what Mataro role is since he was the only one who was smart enough well greedy to sell his given life fiber suit? Would he simply be the damsel in distress to be saved by Mako or something more important?
 

rbstewart7263

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Fappy said:
Weaver said:
My favourite part of episode 17 was the dialog between Gamagori and Mako's family. That was gold.
I was laughing my ass off during that part.

OT: Good episode with some legitimately great moments. Most cathartic brutality I have seen in a long time, for sure. Let's hope these final seven episodes can hit it out of the park. I really want this series to have a satisfying ending, both thematically and character-wise.

Also, is this turning into a thing where we make a thread every episode now? If so, I am on board. I only have my sister to talk about KLK with IRL :p
I know right! not enough people to watch these weird little anime shows with! also yeah that was a pretty satisfying stab if ever there was one.
 

[Kira Must Die]

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Sep 30, 2009
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When Satsuki pinned Ragyo onto that cross with blood raining down, I sorta got an Evangelion vibe.

I knew it was coming, and I'd like to see where it goes from here. From the previews it looks like Ragyo survives somehow, so it makes me curious.
 

SajuukKhar

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Zak757 said:
I dont think the Ragyo we saw get stabbed is Nui, remember, Nui's eye patch stays with her when she disguises herself.

It may be some puppet, but when Ryuko defeated them they broke apart fairly quickly, the stabbing + blood makes me think that's a real person.

As for why Nui wasn't dressed up, it was stated before Nui doesn't actually follow anyone, she has her own plans, and it only using the people around her, something both Ragyo and Satsuki know.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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Look at Raygo's eyes. Same as senketsu. I dont know WHAT she is but she is NOT human. She wont die. I think she is lifefiber in human form. Or some sort of possessed human. Shes definitely very "Assuming direct control" harbinger esque looking at her eyes and rainbow clothing. Considering she discovered the dormant life fiber I think this thoery makes sense.

It also explains why she has such a CREEPY relationship with her daughter. She is the "successor". The next host. The life fiber sees her as a body to control and invade. So the relationship gets weird. "Nice skin" was a line Raygo used.
 

Storm Dragon

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I just want to say: Called it.

I've been expecting that Ryuko and Satsuki would have to team up at some point since the very beginning of the show, although, prior to the previous episode, it was really just a gut feeling without much evidence aside from how Satsuki and the Elite Four are presented in sympathetic lights. But episode 16 convinced me that it would happen.

In the scene where Ragyo shows Satsuki the Primordial Life Fiber, Ragyo explains that she and her whole company serve the Fibers and that she expects Satsuki to do the same. When this happened, I thought, "Lady, do you even KNOW your daughter? It is not in Satsuki's nature serve anyone or anything but herself." Then there was Satsuki's shocked reaction to Ragyo ordering the big ceremony thing, she clearly didn't like the idea.

SajuukKhar said:
Zak757 said:
I dont think the Ragyo we saw get stabbed is Nui, remember, Nui's eye patch stays with her when she disguises herself.

It may be some puppet, but when Ryuko defeated them they broke apart fairly quickly, the stabbing + blood makes me think that's a real person.

As for why Nui wasn't dressed up, it was stated before Nui doesn't actually follow anyone, she has her own plans, and it only using the people around her, something both Ragyo and Satsuki know.
Maybe the previous puppets were just the "quick and dirty" variety that didn't need to die believably, and this one is simply better constructed and more lifelike. The other possibility is that the Life Fibers will preserve her.

Also, @OP: that is the best gif ever.
 

EMWISE94

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I won't lie, the twist didn't hit me as hard as it should have, it was more of a "oh... now we're throwing in a twist?... okay." rather than "YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!", But that's mainly cause I kinda got taken out of the story when things decided to go all 'clothing is from space' and I was just like... eeeuuugh! Also the way Ryuko and Satsuki's fight ended in Osaka was annoying too, I felt like it ended on a note that just didn't fit, but that just might be me.

But yeah, this episode was interesting for the most part, but when it comes to backstabs you sorta saw coming but timed it wrong, Kill la Kill's was meh. My award for best backstab goes to Blue Beetle back in Young Justice.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Apr 25, 2013
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Fappy said:
Weaver said:
My favourite part of episode 17 was the dialog between Gamagori and Mako's family. That was gold.
I was laughing my ass off during that part.

OT: Good episode with some legitimately great moments. Most cathartic brutality I have seen in a long time, for sure. Let's hope these final seven episodes can hit it out of the park. I really want this series to have a satisfying ending, both thematically and character-wise.

Also, is this turning into a thing where we make a thread every episode now? If so, I am on board. I only have my sister to talk about KLK with IRL :p
To be fair, the twist is almost comedically obvious to anyone with an understanding of Japanese history; the Honnoji incident was when Akechi Mitsuhide betrayed Oda Nobunaga in a coup and forced him to commit suicide.
Honno-ji Incident

Regardless this does fit Satsuki's character as she is very defiant and the type to not want to be made food or to be controlled (hell, she uses "Life Fiber Override" instead of "Synchronize"). This does raise a question; Satsuki said that she made Harime kill Matoi Isshin. Why would she want to do that if they both want to stop Ragyo's plan? Is it to not raise suspicion and allow her to get closer to Ragyo's plan (and probably the primordial life fiber)? All I know is that this is all coming to a head.

One thing comes to mind. The imagery of the machine used to make Senketsu and weave life fibers are similar to that of star mandulas which are used in Japanese Astrology and the Senketsu spoke in the preview about the fabric of karma. Could there be a connection between life fibers and humanity's path in the show?
 

Amethyst Wind

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Storm Dragon said:
I just want to say: Called it.
Everyone called it. The contrasting colour schemes, but essentially same armour screamed it from the heavens.

On topic: I didn't expect it to only take one episode for Satsuki to betray her mother. I thought it would be on episode 20 (generally the episode where shit gets very real).

Still, why not?

The character whose actions I'm most interested in seeing is Ragyo's assistant. Ultra-secretary go!
 

Edl01

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I knew Satsuki was going to betray Ragyo. But damn I wasn't expecting it to go like that, Satsuki just straight up went Sephiroth on her. Quite a good ending, it seems like the show is setting up for it's big(hopefully well animated) conclusion.

Also I now ship Ryuko-Senketsu. Why? Because why not?
 

deserteagleeye

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I was getting seriously sick of this show. All the tedious exposition for shit that's not supposed to be taken seriously in the first place so why bother, was really pissing me off. Initially my hopes were high and I enjoyed the first couple of episodes because I believed it was working up to something better but it just got worse and worse. I liked this episode purely because of the brutal crucifixion at the end because even if I feel nothing for the characters or plot by this point I can at least enjoy the gorey shock value.

As soon as the ceremony started I kept thinking to myself, "Man the only way this show can get my attention again is if a bunch of people just die, just red weddings all over the place. Give me some damn killing KILL la KILL!"
And I did kind of get that satisfaction here but if I don't see some more bold actions like that I'm going start planning the funeral arrangements for Trigger's glory days.
 

Zak757

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Izanagi009 said:
Fappy said:
Weaver said:
My favourite part of episode 17 was the dialog between Gamagori and Mako's family. That was gold.
I was laughing my ass off during that part.

OT: Good episode with some legitimately great moments. Most cathartic brutality I have seen in a long time, for sure. Let's hope these final seven episodes can hit it out of the park. I really want this series to have a satisfying ending, both thematically and character-wise.

Also, is this turning into a thing where we make a thread every episode now? If so, I am on board. I only have my sister to talk about KLK with IRL :p
To be fair, the twist is almost comedically obvious to anyone with an understanding of Japanese history; the Honnoji incident was when Akechi Mitsuhide betrayed Oda Nobunaga in a coup and forced him to commit suicide.
Honno-ji Incident

Regardless this does fit Satsuki's character as she is very defiant and the type to not want to be made food or to be controlled (hell, she uses "Life Fiber Override" instead of "Synchronize"). This does raise a question; Satsuki said that she made Harime kill Matoi Isshin. Why would she want to do that if they both want to stop Ragyo's plan? Is it to not raise suspicion and allow her to get closer to Ragyo's plan (and probably the primordial life fiber)? All I know is that this is all coming to a head.

One thing comes to mind. The imagery of the machine used to make Senketsu and weave life fibers are similar to that of star mandulas which are used in Japanese Astrology and the Senketsu spoke in the preview about the fabric of karma. Could there be a connection between life fibers and humanity's path in the show?
Well, Satsuki had been set up as Nobunga up to this point, so I imagine some who were following the historical parellels to the Honnoji Incident were surprised to find out that Ragyo was Nobunga. Oda's betrayer died 11 days later, hopefully that isn't foreshadowing Satsuki-sama's fate.

Also, Satsuki didn't order Nui to kill Isshin. All she asked was that she find out what Isshin was developing in secret. That said, I don't know what she expected. Getting a chaos god to do exactly what you say is a bad plan.
 

Grimh

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You know I totally saw the betrayal coming (who didn't?) and yet it caught me completely by surprise.
Like you said I didn't expect it so quick and soon, I did expect it to be very satisfying though.

Execution (heh) is everything.

They reminded us of the whole wedding dress thing before it happened too and Senketsu sort of reminds me of a tuxedo what with the "suspenders" and "bow tie"... Eeh I'm probably reading too much into it.
 

Chronowaster

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Scarim Coral said:
Danm, that is a whole wall of text, I almost TL:DR (yes I did read it in the end)!


I also getting a feeling that Ragyo is going to control the Elite Four (I mean they are wearing life fibre and are still below Satsuki in terms of will power/ resistant to it given to that primand diagram in the episode).
Most likely they will not, keep in mind how much they have been researching Senketsu, and have developed new goku suits based of of it. Most likely in preparation for the coup, so that they could actually fight back and, you know, not be wrapped in a death cocoon.