Kinect Is Not For You

[Jkudo]

A mate of mine is really looking forward to Kinect and I really can't see why. Aside from it's motion controlled user interface, nothing about it is worth it. Had it been cheaper, I'd think about getting it for that use alone, but it's current game line up doesn't interest me (or my mate for that matter, though he still wants it) and any games that either of us play would be much worse off if made for Kinect.

Even when it was first announced, all I ever saw was Microsoft trying to crack into Nintendos market, which is fine, but just never saw any use for the device outside of its targeted demo of casual players. Time will tell if my thoughts on it are proved wrong and it does end up having success with serious video game players, but I really don't see that happening.

I agree, kinect and playstation eye would be awesome for user interface purposes. What people dont realize is that microsoft did not invent kinect.

I've followed kinect since before it was kinect. Something called the zcam was invented by a company, it looked pretty great because some guy just controlled a plain with his hands and then shot by pressing his thumbs down. I was excited. Microsoft then bought the system in an attempt to compete with nintendo, i thought they would improve it but it just looks really bad now.

Given how great i thought microsofts marketing department was i would think that they would lean more towards kinects interface capabilities, i would also think that sony would show how much the playstation eye can do. It just doesnt make sense to me. I would show people navigating screens with waves of there hands and there voice before i show people playing with a virtual pet. Yes microsoft has shown some of what kinect can do, i just dont think they've shown it enough. As for the playstation eye, through lots of research, i've learned that it can do voice recognition along with full body tracking, you just have to program for it. I would also think they would try to show this more. In fact in a game like socom 4 in single player where you lead a squad, voice recognition would be awesome. Anyway its obvious in terms of games kinect is off to a bad start.

Also sony is trying to attract its core audience but really, i think with the lineup they have it is going to work. I am truly excited for some of the games coming out for sony move, socom 4, the fight, sorcery!!!, gladiator duel, and heroes on the move(rachet and clank, sly cooper, and jak and daxter all in one game!!!!! it seems like a salute to the ps2 lol ).
ps. badger kyre way to steal my first name!??!?!!!!

 

[Treblaine]

I think you are crediting MS with more brains than they have available for such projects.
the kinect as it is kinda proves that. Its a 450$ web cam with some shape recognition code attached, dammit.

For Microsoft's sake IF ONLY it was just a webcam! Digital Foundry investigation have found the peripheral is stuffed full of tech, the array of cameras, microphones, circuitry, high-precision motors. It is an incredibly OVER ENGINEERED product and Microsoft could easily make no profit on selling each one for $150. Certainly the $300 bundle of 4GB-Xbox-360 + Kinect will be a significant loss leader while the now 4 years well established (and very reliable) Wii sells for half the price with a profit.

(Hell Wii could sell for $99 and still profit. I see that as the magic price where Wii sales will just explode, where anyone with even the faintest interest in a Wii will buy one just on a whim and more importantly even undercut Playstation Move bundle prices. Why get Move/Kinect for a handful of launch titles when Wii has 4 years of titles utilising motion controls?)

Compare and contrast Kinect with the Wii Remote, it's a prime example in a maser-class of industrial design, it is simple both in form and function. Cheap to make, easy to understand, flexible to use and room to grow technologically with the add-on gyroscope in MotionPlus manufacturing and selling as a separate unit to be sold later when games could actually utilise it and when it could be manufactured afford-ably, drove cost down.

Even PS-Move to an extent is over-engineered with a rather convoluted Camera+Ball tracking system combined with Wii-style motion sensor, but it is smart for utilising surplus PS-eye cameras and left-hand is perfect for lightweight Six-axis controllers though any controller will work (expect third parties to move in soon).

Personally, I find this all a pointless distraction. I just wish developers would offer native USB-mouse support with their games, that would be perfect. PS3 hardware natively supports USB mouse interface to high precision.

IMHO, selling a console shooter without mouse support is like selling a console racing-game without support of a racing wheel. But the way games are, they could easily have mouse-support retro-actively added with patches/updates.

 

[Treblaine]

People should be worried as EVEN FROM THE START the Nintendo that everyone loves to hate for selling out to "the casual" have supported their core-franchises.

The Wii launched with Twilight Princess (OK, mostly a port from Gamecube) but within a year of launch this is what Wii owners who jumped on the motion band-wagon were rewarded with:
-Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
-Super Mario Galaxy
-Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
-Geometry Wars: Galaxies
-Ghost Squad (so under-appreciated)
-Medal of Honor: Heroes 2
-No More Heroes
-Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
-Zak & Wiki

See Microsoft doesn't seem to be showing ANY CORE GAMES AT ALL! Dance Central is not a "core" game, even compared to Zak & Wiki.

 

[Treblaine]

I agree, kinect and playstation eye would be awesome for user interface purposes. What people dont realize is that microsoft did not invent kinect.

That shouldn't matter as that is pretty much how all technology is invented and proliferates through all industries.

The "Made in our labs" is VERY rare and more often than not a PR manipulation. Only few tech companies invent, manufacture and sell their own creations: few include computer chip manufacturers like Intel or ATI.

Remember, Microsoft didn't invent the Xbox 360's GPU... nor it's CPU, nor the Disc drive nor any component or even its idea. ATI and AMD did that, under a commission from Microsoft. And the same is true for Sony with all their internal hardware and even Nintendo. Yes, Nintendo did not invent motion sensing technology used in the Wii mote. But both Nintendo with Wii and Microsoft with Kinect, they recognised the technology, they paid to use it (with some exclusivity) and they crafted it into a product that they were able to sell.

This is a GOOD thing that companies are open to new ideas that will better them, it gives small companies who specialise in developing technology a chance to actually make some money if they ever come up with a good idea. It is far cheaper (and more effective) searching around the world for great minds and their product and paying for exclusivity... than trying to hire thousands of creatives fresh out of University in hope that one of them invents some revolutionary technology while on MS payrole.

But even if this Camera-body-tracking was essentially a good idea, I think Microsoft are making a terrible mistake in execution. Particularly for pricing and target market.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Give it time, eventually Kinect will have some Core games, then the core audience can complain about those.

After all, Nintendo went after that casual market at first, and they got really, really successful. Now that they have a big audience and everything, they're moving back to the core gamers with a crapload of amazing looking games geared for the "hardcore" crowd.

And besides. Microsoft is a business, they'll market to where the money's at. And right now the money's with all the casual gamers.

The only thing is Microsoft is a very snaky business and I have never liked their business practises. Especially if you look at the xbox 360 in particular. At launch you could of opted to go without a hard drive and use memory cards. That would have been a massive mistake for anyone that did as they would have to get a hdd or a memory card after a small amount of games being bought. Even if you got the launch HDD if you go online and get all the updates you would still have to upgrade it. As I never went online and had 12GB of just game saves.

That is how Microsoft works they get you to buy something off them and make sure you have to upgrade it every now and then to get a steady flow of income off you. Even the new xbox slim doesn't even have memory card ports. The fact that the disc tray is just a disk tray and has no locking system and spins disks at such a high rpm you are almost forced to install games. Well forced if you want to ensure you disk doesn't get eaten and to make the console quieter. Thus adding to forcing you to buy a new hard drive.

One thing that is worrying and also points to Microsoft's snaky business practise is the Xbox slim being Kinect ready meaning that the other consoles are not. So that means any new people will have to buy not only a xbox 360 and Kinect but possibly another peripheral as well or buy a Slim model. Even with the Slim if you want to play HD games you need a HDMI cable as they have fucked the HD component out to window to squeeze even more money out of you.

Kinda off topic from your point but just saying Microsoft do this because they are only a business I don't agree with. As this how Microsoft got where they are now by doing this "ok you buy this from us now but what we we won't ell you is you will have to upgrade some bits every couple of years" thing.

 

[Irridium]

Give it time, eventually Kinect will have some Core games, then the core audience can complain about those.

After all, Nintendo went after that casual market at first, and they got really, really successful. Now that they have a big audience and everything, they're moving back to the core gamers with a crapload of amazing looking games geared for the "hardcore" crowd.

And besides. Microsoft is a business, they'll market to where the money's at. And right now the money's with all the casual gamers.

The only thing is Microsoft is a very snaky business and I have never liked their business practises. Especially if you look at the xbox 360 in particular. At launch you could of opted to go without a hard drive and use memory cards. That would have been a massive mistake for anyone that did as they would have to get a hdd or a memory card after a small amount of games being bought. Even if you got the launch HDD if you go online and get all the updates you would still have to upgrade it. As I never went online and had 12GB of just game saves.

That is how Microsoft works they get you to buy something off them and make sure you have to upgrade it every now and then to get a steady flow of income off you. Even the new xbox slim doesn't even have memory card ports. The fact that the disc tray is just a disk tray and has no locking system and spins disks at such a high rpm you are almost forced to install games. Well forced if you want to ensure you disk doesn't get eaten and to make the console quieter. Thus adding to forcing you to buy a new hard drive.

One thing that is worrying and also points to Microsoft's snaky business practise is the Xbox slim being Kinect ready meaning that the other consoles are not. So that means any new people will have to buy not only a xbox 360 and Kinect but possibly another peripheral as well or buy a Slim model. Even with the Slim if you want to play HD games you need a HDMI cable as they have fucked the HD component out to window to squeeze even more money out of you.

Kinda off topic from your point but just saying Microsoft do this because they are only a business I don't agree with. As this how Microsoft got where they are now by doing this "ok you buy this from us now but what we we won't ell you is you will have to upgrade some bits every couple of years" thing.

Its all right. I've noticed that actually. The ever-expanding hard drives, the steadily increasing download sizes...

I still have my small 12gb hard drive. I've had it for years. I'll be damned if I pay for a ridiculously overpriced hard drive from them.

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

Give it time, eventually Kinect will have some Core games, then the core audience can complain about those.

After all, Nintendo went after that casual market at first, and they got really, really successful. Now that they have a big audience and everything, they're moving back to the core gamers with a crapload of amazing looking games geared for the "hardcore" crowd.

And besides. Microsoft is a business, they'll market to where the money's at. And right now the money's with all the casual gamers.

The only thing is Microsoft is a very snaky business and I have never liked their business practises. Especially if you look at the xbox 360 in particular. At launch you could of opted to go without a hard drive and use memory cards. That would have been a massive mistake for anyone that did as they would have to get a hdd or a memory card after a small amount of games being bought. Even if you got the launch HDD if you go online and get all the updates you would still have to upgrade it. As I never went online and had 12GB of just game saves.

That is how Microsoft works they get you to buy something off them and make sure you have to upgrade it every now and then to get a steady flow of income off you. Even the new xbox slim doesn't even have memory card ports. The fact that the disc tray is just a disk tray and has no locking system and spins disks at such a high rpm you are almost forced to install games. Well forced if you want to ensure you disk doesn't get eaten and to make the console quieter. Thus adding to forcing you to buy a new hard drive.

One thing that is worrying and also points to Microsoft's snaky business practise is the Xbox slim being Kinect ready meaning that the other consoles are not. So that means any new people will have to buy not only a xbox 360 and Kinect but possibly another peripheral as well or buy a Slim model. Even with the Slim if you want to play HD games you need a HDMI cable as they have fucked the HD component out to window to squeeze even more money out of you.

Kinda off topic from your point but just saying Microsoft do this because they are only a business I don't agree with. As this how Microsoft got where they are now by doing this "ok you buy this from us now but what we we won't ell you is you will have to upgrade some bits every couple of years" thing.

Glademaster, thank you, I honestly did not really give the "Kinect-ready" thing much thought. I have my old a refurb from before the Jasper chip and without even and HDMI port. You can say all you want about the changes to the PS3, the 360 has been a proper mess with different versions, features, and add-ons with intended obsolescence in mind. Overall it is a great point to make because I feel as a 360 owner now even more circumspect with everything Microsoft is acting on because there are too many "what ifs?" that leave me as a consumer deterred from further investment, especially considering the lacking past of longevity for the 360 hardware.

Its all right. I've noticed that actually. The ever-expanding hard drives, the steadily increasing download sizes...

I still have my small 12gb hard drive. I've had it for years. I'll be damned if I pay for a ridiculously overpriced hard drive from them.

I have the small hard drive as you do I believe, and I too refuse to shell out for a proprietary HDD. Even more so now that Micrsoft's digital big plan has slowly spread to eat up memory for the best use of the console's performance. The premise of having models without a hard drive proved to be inane, and even the standard HDD size was not large enough for how long it was produced until the "Elite" 120gb. Considering that became the new standard, it has to make one suspect of Microsoft's original intent with the extremely smaller memory capacities early on. Even Sony had to immediately dump the 20gb model (for other reasons as well), which really was a slap to the "future-proof" console during the PS3's start come to think of it.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I have the small hard drive as you do I believe, and I too refuse to shell out for a proprietary HDD.

Its all right. I've noticed that actually. The ever-expanding hard drives, the steadily increasing download sizes...

I still have my small 12gb hard drive. I've had it for years. I'll be damned if I pay for a ridiculously overpriced hard drive from them.

Well if either of you two are interested [http://www.pcworld.com/article/150970/upgrade_your_xbox_360s_hard_drive_on_the_cheap.html]. If you click on that link it will lead you to a guide on how to get a cheap xbox hard drive. It does require a bit of technical expertise. I haven't done it myself but I hear that it works. Although Microsoft have thought of a way of preventing this for those of us with the Slim by making the HDD internal. Still possible but a bit harder. Although I don't know if that might get you banned off XBL so I would only recommend it if you don't game online.

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

I have the small hard drive as you do I believe, and I too refuse to shell out for a proprietary HDD.

Its all right. I've noticed that actually. The ever-expanding hard drives, the steadily increasing download sizes...

I still have my small 12gb hard drive. I've had it for years. I'll be damned if I pay for a ridiculously overpriced hard drive from them.

Well if either of you two are interested [http://www.pcworld.com/article/150970/upgrade_your_xbox_360s_hard_drive_on_the_cheap.html]. If you click on that link it will lead you to a guide on how to get a cheap xbox hard drive. It does require a bit of technical expertise. I haven't done it myself but I hear that it works. Although Microsoft have thought of a way of preventing this for those of us with the Slim by making the HDD internal. Still possible but a bit harder. Although I don't know if that might get you banned off XBL so I would only recommend it if you don't game online.

Thank you for the information, but I'm content with the one I have as I've stopped buying XBL DLC and do not really plan on buying any new ones unless I see some random mega-deal on Reach or Fable III (which I doubt any time soon). Because of that, I have not followed the finite details of Kinect such as the whole "Kinect-Ready," memory requirements, future releases that could actually be good (although I do not think that they've actually announced any...), and only through the forums did I find out that the Kinect will drain the 360's processing capabilities. That makes perfect sense, but as someone not interested, I never gave it a thought until more and more information came out regarding Kinect.

The more that I think of Kinect and all that it entails in relation to Microsoft's past marketing, I grow curious as to how the device will be looked at in a few years depending not just on its initial reception, but its own longevity. What else will be thrown into the mix in effort to keep Kinect a pertinent facet of the Xbox 360? Just in terms of marketing and technology rather than just gaming alone this is becoming interesting indeed.

Regardless of outcome, I'm now beginning to wish that those Kinect resources were to go towards more original IPs. I would even settle for another Halo game or Halo 4 with open arms (and this is coming from someone who disliked 2 and 3 and wants the Halo series to have a dignified end with Reach...).

 

[Robby Foxfur]

This is Microsoft's attempt to pander to the Wii crowd saying hey look at the 360 it can do that to, and a heck of a lot better. (IMO) Kenect is not for hardcore its to draw a more casual gamer crowd to the Xbox. More player more money

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Thank you for the information, but I'm content with the one I have as I've stopped buying XBL DLC and do not really plan on buying any new ones unless I see some random mega-deal on Reach or Fable III (which I doubt any time soon). Because of that, I have not followed the finite details of Kinect such as the whole "Kinect-Ready," memory requirements, future releases that could actually be good (although I do not think that they've actually announced any...), and only through the forums did I find out that the Kinect will drain the 360's processing capabilities. That makes perfect sense, but as someone not interested, I never gave it a thought until more and more information came out regarding Kinect.

The more that I think of Kinect and all that it entails in relation to Microsoft's past marketing, I grow curious as to how the device will be looked at in a few years depending not just on its initial reception, but its own longevity. What else will be thrown into the mix in effort to keep Kinect a pertinent facet of the Xbox 360? Just in terms of marketing and technology rather than just gaming alone this is becoming interesting indeed.

Regardless of outcome, I'm now beginning to wish that those Kinect resources were to go towards more original IPs. I would even settle for another Halo game or Halo 4 with open arms (and this is coming from someone who disliked 2 and 3 and wants the Halo series to have a dignified end with Reach...).

Well that's the thing with stuff like this it is better to wait awhile and see what happens. If it is all still standing after post release aftermath it might be ok but just all the little requirements that aren't being mentioned don't bode well for it being successful and seesm quite a wasted venture.

 

[Irridium]

I have the small hard drive as you do I believe, and I too refuse to shell out for a proprietary HDD. Even more so now that Micrsoft's digital big plan has slowly spread to eat up memory for the best use of the console's performance. The premise of having models without a hard drive proved to be inane, and even the standard HDD size was not large enough for how long it was produced until the "Elite" 120gb. Considering that became the new standard, it has to make one suspect of Microsoft's original intent with the extremely smaller memory capacities early on. Even Sony had to immediately dump the 20gb model (for other reasons as well), which really was a slap to the "future-proof" console during the PS3's start come to think of it.

Indeed. However Sony at least had the decency to make PC harddrives compatible. So you can swap out the standard HDD with a much cheaper, much larger PC one. I myself have a 400gb one in mine(from my old PC).

Microsoft however you have to use their hard drives, which are overpriced. $100 for a 60gb hard drive... yeah over my dead body MS.

 

[Gasaraki]

The reason that Wii succeeded was because if developers wanted to make a good game without using motion controls for the Wii, it's still on the wii. If a developer wants to make a good xbox game, they have absolutely no obligation to include Kinect in any way whatsoever. The Wii succeeded in the long run because despite all the crap it still had some core games. Kinect looks like it's gonna fail because if a developer wants to release a core game they can, and most like will, go right through Kinect and release it on the Xbox, benefiting Kinect in no way.

/wall of text

 

[IamSofaKingRaw]

Speak for yourself. My girlfriend and I have every intention of getting Dance Central and making total tits of ourselves at home and when we throw parties.

LoL I read that wrong. :/

 

[Jkudo]

I agree, kinect and playstation eye would be awesome for user interface purposes. What people dont realize is that microsoft did not invent kinect.

That shouldn't matter as that is pretty much how all technology is invented and proliferates through all industries.

The "Made in our labs" is VERY rare and more often than not a PR manipulation. Only few tech companies invent, manufacture and sell their own creations: few include computer chip manufacturers like Intel or ATI.

Remember, Microsoft didn't invent the Xbox 360's GPU... nor it's CPU, nor the Disc drive nor any component or even its idea. ATI and AMD did that, under a commission from Microsoft. And the same is true for Sony with all their internal hardware and even Nintendo. Yes, Nintendo did not invent motion sensing technology used in the Wii mote. But both Nintendo with Wii and Microsoft with Kinect, they recognised the technology, they paid to use it (with some exclusivity) and they crafted it into a product that they were able to sell.

This is a GOOD thing that companies are open to new ideas that will better them, it gives small companies who specialise in developing technology a chance to actually make some money if they ever come up with a good idea. It is far cheaper (and more effective) searching around the world for great minds and their product and paying for exclusivity... than trying to hire thousands of creatives fresh out of University in hope that one of them invents some revolutionary technology while on MS payrole.

But even if this Camera-body-tracking was essentially a good idea, I think Microsoft are making a terrible mistake in execution. Particularly for pricing and target market.

I'm aware of all of that. It was actually in response to the notion that microsoft did a bad job developing it or that they are visionaries for creating kinect.

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

Well that's the thing with stuff like this it is better to wait awhile and see what happens. If it is all still standing after post release aftermath it might be ok but just all the little requirements that aren't being mentioned don't bode well for it being successful and seesm quite a wasted venture.

I find that to be quite the caveat regarding Kinect and how it is being presented. Those shadowy details can be the difference between purchases because only the more trusting or spontaneous buyers will not heed as many notable warnings. Considering that hindsight is 20/20, I'm going to take full advantage of that and let the Kinect crowd act as guinea pigs, assuming that the Kinect outlasts its starting rush.

Indeed. However Sony at least had the decency to make PC harddrives compatible. So you can swap out the standard HDD with a much cheaper, much larger PC one. I myself have a 400gb one in mine(from my old PC).

Microsoft however you have to use their hard drives, which are overpriced. $100 for a 60gb hard drive... yeah over my dead body MS.

So true because the standard PC Hard drives are actually reasonable. I am limited with the new Slim model, but at 120 GB I'd still say I'm a whole lot better off than a mere 60gb as you've mentioned. I already forgot that was their "middle" size for a while. Regardless, $100 is getting dangerously close to two full new releases and fifty dollars short of a Wii! I've come to hate the proprietary nature of the 360 because when combined with the already sub-standard quality on a menagerie of 360 items it leaves a customer reaching into their wallet for another mic, for example. The slow expansion of the memory allotment is no exception with the exorbitant price schemes to upgrade. Now in retrospect, quitting Live has already saved me not only the $50 fee, but all of the broken mics that spontaneously shorted ha ha!

 

[Irridium]

So true because the standard PC Hard drives are actually reasonable. I am limited with the new Slim model, but at 120 GB I'd still say I'm a whole lot better off than a mere 60gb as you've mentioned. I already forgot that was their "middle" size for a while. Regardless, $100 is getting dangerously close to two full new releases and fifty dollars short of a Wii! I've come to hate the proprietary nature of the 360 because when combined with the already sub-standard quality on a menagerie of 360 items it leaves a customer reaching into their wallet for another mic, for example. The slow expansion of the memory allotment is no exception with the exorbitant price schemes to upgrade. Now in retrospect, quitting Live has already saved me not only the $50 fee, but all of the broken mics that spontaneously shorted ha ha!

Oh man, all the money I've spent on xbox mics, both Xbox and 360 mics... Got to be well over $200. The things are pieces of shit and need constant replacing. Wish I could use my USB mic that works on my PC and PS3.

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

Oh man, all the money I've spent on xbox mics, both Xbox and 360 mics... Got to be well over $200. The things are pieces of shit and need constant replacing. Wish I could use my USB mic that works on my PC and PS3.

After a while they also were bothersome and felt strange over the ear. Part of it may have been from the sound quality, but I just think the devices themselves were cheap. The former issue was to be fixed in the Fall update I believe.

If I remember correctly, that update will also affect the Avatars for kinect and (maybe?) the dashboard again. I've had my 360 since prior to the NXE/Avatar massacre transition, so I have to wonder how the newer dashboard is going to feel to completely new 360 owners, let alone those like myself who would have been satisfied with something more akin to the original [sub]and make the Mii clones optional[/sub]. I have not been keeping up with the latest Microsoft ad campaigns, but I wonder when the Avatars will be the next bullet point for Kinect aimed at the "casual" crowd.

 

[Treblaine]

I agree, kinect and playstation eye would be awesome for user interface purposes. What people dont realize is that microsoft did not invent kinect.

That shouldn't matter as that is pretty much how all technology is invented and proliferates through all industries.

*snipe*

I'm aware of all of that. It was actually in response to the notion that microsoft did a bad job developing it or that they are visionaries for creating kinect.

While some have been exaggerating a TINY bit, I think for what Kinect IS Microsoft deserves recognition for that, remember success is all in the execution and they have not just bought off the shelf tech and put it in a chassis but invested a lot in development (particularity software) to make a very unique product.

Whether it is worth $150 or even the cardboard box it comes in (to my demographic at least) is another matter entirely. But respect where respect is due.

 

[Lovesfool]

At least I have to hand to the Kinect communication that it is honest. It explains from the gecko that the product it not for you Mr. Gamer, it is for your mom and your kids. You and your wife must carry on playing the way you did before Kinect with our console.

If you think about it, it kinda makes more sense than Move. Nintendo does manage to somehow bridge the gap between the two worlds, giving games like Wii Fit and Super Smash Bros. Brawl on the same console with the same controls (and then there are games like Mario Galaxy or Mario Kart or NSMB, that you really can't put your finger on the targeted demographic). So Sony tries to do the same with Move, only more mucho, because they are Sony. But they are wrong... Because the Sixaxis covers the mucho part. It's still there.

That's why I think what Kinect is doing makes more sense. You want mucho? What's stopping you? You still have the controller. You want party games with friends, now you can play with Kinect.

As far as the price is concerned, again it makes more sense than Sony. These games are more fun (or only fun) with friends. It may look a bit expensive to buy Kinect, but you don't need extra controllers, so the price difference from Wii is really not that big for it to matter.

Of course, I also agree with those that said people will probably just go buy a Wii. The software is better, more people have it (so you can play it in your house one day and at your friends house the next) and at the end of the day Nintendo has been spending huge amounts of money to create their "expanded" audience over the last 4 years. I don't think MS or Sony will achieve to emulate than over night.

How many of the Wii Fit owners or prospective owners know that Move or Kinect are launching before Christmas (and how many care)?