Kingdom Hearts: Disney Villains

[digipinky75910]

For Discussion:

In KH1: We see the ultimate alliance of eeevil, bringing together the greatest Disney villains of all time. In that and every game that follows, we also see other villains who for their own reasons, elect not to take part in this alliance.

We have elements of the supernatural, as well as more earthly human characters.

Disney has undergone many evolutions and incarnations during its long and prosperous lifetime. This is illustrated by KH itself: Splitting the stories in half: The older movies, Snow White, Cinderella, and Sleeping Beauty, and the newer movies in the remaining games.

I think it'd be interesting to see what the "B-team" of villains might do in this world. Perhaps a battle of 'Old v New.' Who would lead the next, or newest team of villains? Would they work well together? What would each villain bring to the group? What would each char want to get out of it?

I looked over the remaining Villains who've yet to make any appearance in KH (ie, have not taken a stand,) and picked out the most memorable. Who would you put in a group together? How do you think it would all go down? Who would lead this group?

King Stefan (Maleficent)
King Candy (Wreck-it Ralph)
Mor'du (Brave)
Cutler Beckett / Davy Jones (Pirates)
Clu (Tron Legacy)
Mother Goethal (Rapunzel)
Charles F. Muntz (Up)
Doctor Facilier (Frog Princess)
Syndrome (Incredibles)
Randall Boggs (Monsters Inc)
Yzma (Emperor's New Groove)
Zurg (Toy Story)

Firebird (Fantasia)

Hm, Mostly Pixar chars.

Other notable villains of the past available:
Cruella Deville (101 Dalmatians)
Sykes (Oliver + Company)
Professor Ratigan (Great Mouse Detective)
The Horned King (Black Cauldron)
Madame Medusa (The Rescuers)
Madam Mim (Sword in the Stone)
Stromboli (Pinocchio)

Long John Silver (Treasure Planet)

Honorable Mention: Shere Khan

Heck, should we/could we throw in some of the more colorful characters from the tv shows?

Thoughts?

 

[Lilani]

Of the ones you listed, the only ones I feel are unlikely are King Stephan from Maleficent and the Pixar characters. I think it's no coincidence that in all of these KH games absolutely no Pixar characters have appeared, not even as summons like Chicken Little did. I think that Disney doesn't technically have the rights to the Pixar characters for non-marketing purposes, at least in a way which would freely allow them to be used by a third party like Square Enix.

As for Maleficent, since they've already established Maleficent in the Kingdom Hearts universe as the one from the 1950s movie. The Maleficent in last year's movie is a very different character altogether, from a very different world. They couldn't introduce King Stephan without introducing that version of her, and they couldn't just stop using 1950s Maleficent as well. They'd have to introduce that world as some sort of parallel world or alternate history. It could be interesting for sure, but depending on the kind of contract Angelina Jolie had with Disney it could be very expensive to get the rights to use her likeness.

I think the rest are all very possible, in some form or another. If not as characters in a fully-fledged world then as summons or as characters stranded on other worlds (like the way some have been stranded in Traverse Town or Radiant Garden/Hollow Bastion in the past). The ones I most hope for are a full-on Pinocchio world, a full-on Rescuers/Rescuers Down Under world, or a full-on Princess and the Frog world. Clu would be a good reason to revisit the Tron world, and Treasure Planet would be a freaking awesome world to visit. This is one thing I've loved about how Square has treated the Disney worlds--while they do seem to have some favorites like the Nightmare Before Christmas, there really seems to be no era of Disney films or type of Disney character that they spurn. They celebrate every aspect of Disney--from the dark and macabre like Maleficent, Night on Bald Mountain, and Nightmare Before Christmas, to the light and lighthearted like Cinderella, 101 Dalmatians, and Chicken Little. New and old, iconic and obscure.

I just hope that if they choose Wreck-It Ralph, they don't water the world down to a racing minigame. The more recent games have gotten a bit too into minigames for my tastes.

 

[Khrowley]

Don't think I'm alone in wanting to see Doctor Facilier as a major villain in Kingdom Hearts as his personality and powers make him a villain gold mine. Get Keith David to voice him and I'm sold. Have him team up with James Woods' Hades and that'd be an epic story on it's own.

 

[Lilani]

Have him team up with James Woods' Hades and that'd be an epic story on it's own.

Ooooh, yes, that would be great. Doctor Facilier's end in the movie was made by being taken to "the other side" by the spirits he'd attempted to bargain with for power. By what they did with Auron in KH2, they've already established the underworld that Hades has dominion over is the underworld of other worlds as well as Hercules' world, and Hades is in the business of making deals like the ones Facilier had been in the business of making. Damn that would be a great pair, they're really cut from the same cloth.

 

[Raggedstar]

Dr. Facilier is one of my favourite Disney villains (perhaps my favourite from his decade) so I really hope he gets represented at some point. He's entertaining, governing heartless would come naturally to him, and he has charisma out the wazoo. Yzma would be great too as there's lots of opportunities and very entertaining (if you've never played the movie tie-in game for The Emperor's New Groove, it's actually pretty decent. Spyro with a llama). Shere Khan would be great too. Sykes is a bit boring of a villain (just a dude with a fancy car), but he can maybe be substituted for Roscoe and Desthoto.

Regarding the Firebird, I wouldn't call him/it an actual villain, especially if he has to work with others. Maybe a secret boss in the same way the Ice Titan was in KH1? That would be cool. Fantasia 2000 could use some representing (or perhaps a better representation of the original too. We didn't get too much out of KH3D's outside of some pretty backgrounds and another Chernabog fight).

I know Pixar may not be likely, but I do want to see Toy Story represented. Lots of opportunities for heartless designs, and you have a lot of potential villains (perhaps not a "team" villain like Hook or Maleficent though, as it would be a bit weird). You have Sid in the background (considering the toys revolt, you have a potential boss fight), his twisted creations, and Scud the dog.

 

[Lilani]

Dr. Facilier is one of my favourite Disney villains (perhaps my favourite from his decade) so I really hope he gets represented at some point. He's entertaining, governing heartless would come naturally to him, and he has charisma out the wazoo. Yzma would be great too as there's lots of opportunities and very entertaining (if you've never played the movie tie-in game for The Emperor's New Groove, it's actually pretty decent. Spyro with a llama). Shere Khan would be great too. Sykes is a bit boring of a villain (just a dude with a fancy car), but he can maybe be substituted for Roscoe and Desthoto.

First of all, it pleases me to no end that somebody else remembers Oliver and Company so clearly, lol. Since the main characters in Oliver and Company are Oliver, Dodger, Tito, and that whole gang one thing they could do is turn the gang into animals like they did in the Pride Lands in KH2. Or, if they kept them human, make them able to converse with the animals. This is all a bit of a stretch, but I would like to see them kept as their proper species, if just to see Sora, Donald, and Goofy in 80s clothes.

Regarding the Firebird, I wouldn't call him/it an actual villain, especially if he has to work with others. Maybe a secret boss in the same way the Ice Titan was in KH1? That would be cool. Fantasia 2000 could use some representing (or perhaps a better representation of the original too. We didn't get too much out of KH3D's outside of some pretty backgrounds and another Chernabog fight).

You took the words out of my mouth. I was thinking either a secret boss, or a boss leading up to something like the way Chernabog was treated in KH1.

I know Pixar may not be likely, but I do want to see Toy Story represented. Lots of opportunities for heartless designs, and you have a lot of potential villains (perhaps not a "team" villain like Hook or Maleficent though, as it would be a bit weird). You have Sid in the background (considering the toys revolt, you have a potential boss fight), his twisted creations, and Scud the dog.

Monster's Inc. would also be a great opportunity to take advantage of the Keyblade's mechanics. Perhaps they can make it to where the Keyblade can activate the closet doors.

Sorry I'm kind of geeking out here, I don't have a lot of people I can talk to about Kingdom Hearts irl

 

[Raggedstar]

Snippadee-doo-dah, snippadee-ay

^.^ No problems with the geek out (and I like me some O&C). Currently playing BBS, so I'm in the mood. I mostly just have online friends and forums to talk Kingdom Hearts with. I've had family (who generally love Disney) look over me while playing and they start out interested until they say "wtf is with the anime-hair kid with the stupid shoes?"

I love the worlds where Sora and the gang transform. And while I would love for them to turn into dogs for an Oliver and Company world, your idea of Sora, Donald, and Goofy decked out in 80s clothes is tempting.

As for Monster's Inc, I've never seen it so I can't comment much. Sounds like it would be neat.

 

[Fox12]

Eh, I can't think of a single good Disney villain that stood out to me after the Disney Renaissance ended, and I don't like the idea of using non-animated material in the games. You may disagree, but Pirates of the Caribbean stuck out to me like a sore thumb, and I came to absolutely hate that stage (although part of that was because of weird game play features). I would personally hate to see Iron Man, Darth Vader, King Stefan, or whoever else in the series. Instead, I prefer the classic whimsical feel of the series. I want more levels like Peter Pan in the first game. That was one of my all time favorites.

As for new villains, I agree with the Horned King. I didn't care for the film itself, but it would make a cool Disney stage. Shere Khan would make a wonderful addition as well, I think. The voodoo guy from Princess and the Frog would be neat as well.

For the most part there's a lot of material for the creators to work with, though, in the classic Disney worlds. We never see Belle's village, and a Gaston boss fight would be hilarious to watch. I would love to see a bemused Sora interact with him.

I always liked the idea that the Disney villains were just being had, though. Their kind of incompetent and foolish, dealing with powers that are beyond their control or understanding. This was particularly interesting in KH1, where they were just being manipulated by Ansem, who was pulling the strings. Other then Chernabog, the Disney Villains didn't seem to have much control over what was happening.

 

[FootloosePhoenix]

I would absolutely adore a Treasure Planet world. I loved that movie as a kid (it's probably my favourite "underrated" Disney movie) and I feel like it would be pretty appropriate for the Kingdom Hearts series. A lot more appropriate than Pirates of the Caribbean, at least, which is a world I'm honestly hoping they don't bring back. Just imagine what the interactions between Sora and Jim or Captain Amelia would be like. Also this might be an unpopular opinion, but I want to see a return to the Pride Lands with the world's plot revolving around the events of The Lion King 2. I loved that movie too as a kid and it seems very possible, given that it's already set-up with Simba and Nala having their daughter.

 

[digipinky75910]

Wow, 12 hours of nothing, then suddenly me post sees attention. Yay! I was half-afraid nobody'd see it.

I think it is interesting even tho one might not appreciate a movie as a whole, a game like KH can still make use of all or some of the bits it likes best. And they're not afraid to pull some surprises or jump into the Disney Vault to find lost treasures even Disney wants to sweep under the rug.

It would be difficult to have two versions of Maleficent in the game, true, but not impossible. There's already two versions of Pete and Mickey - no, more than two of Mickey...

I agree, I think the Firebird would be at least a thematic match for Chernabog, as well as a hell of a boss fight. (Is why I put by self) Wish the Forest Sprite could be your teamup/summon, but I wonder how to intro a specific story element like that without words...

Also I loved the Lion King sequels. Zira would also be a great addition.

With this lineup to choose from, certainly has the makings of an awesomely motley crew, and together, a formidable group. Who would bring them together? Who has the plans for world domination, who would command the respect of the others? Who's the best strategist? I guess what I'm asking is, who amongst them could be the Maleficent of this group?

 

[Auron225]

I don't think they can use Pixar characters so that rules out a few of your choices. I wouldn't want to see any more of Pirates to be honest. I wasn't a fan of Port Royal in KH2 - the style just didn't really fit Kingdom Hearts. Wreck-It Ralph would be peculiar since King Candy resides within a racing game. Not really sure how that one would work out but it'd be interesting to see.

Yzma I'm not so sure about, since that whole movie was especially jokey.

Cruella Deville seems to be in the same category as Clayton was to be honest, and I could understand him not being part of the "team" in the first game. He just seemed lesser than all the rest. Same with Stromboli, Madam Medusa and Professor Ratigan (literally in his case).

Haven't seen most of the others listed there in a long time so I'd find it hard to comment on them. Madam Mim could be awesome, especially since Merlin has been prominent so far in the series.

Mother Goethal, The Horned King and Dr. Facilier would make excellent additions! I'd love to see them make appearances!


I'll be outright shocked if there isn't a Frozen world but I'm not sure who the villain of that one would be. Hans wasn't exactly that big-time. They'd likely end up with some kind of fight that involved fighting Hans while also fighting frozen creatures spawned from Elsa's torment or something.

EDIT: Oh! You know what would be amazing? Commander Rourke from Atlantis. I'd love an Atlantis world!

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

A good selection. Disney has lots of others, but some like the Coachman from Pinnochio wouldn't really fit. I'd prefer to see ones with unique talents that set them apart from just your average boss fight.

Shortly after finishing KH2, I wrote some fanfic stories with Sora encountering a new alliance of my personal favourite Disney villains, and of course I'd love to see any of them show up with expanded roles:

Judge Claude Frollo
Davy Jones (I mean c'mon he sealed his HEART in a chest, how could you not?)
Doctor Facilier
David Xanatos

Obviously Xanatos was the mastermind of this bunch, and I know Frollo isn't exactly a world-class swordsman. Although since I'm including one animated TV villain I've opened the floodgates for Mozenrath, Negaduck and other well-liked ones.

 

[Dansen]

I would really like to see the horned King featured in some way, if 3 is supposed to be the conclusion then he would be a pretty fitting villain to have towards the end.

Rourke and an Atlantis stage would be welcome as well.

If the series goes back to Agrabha again I would really like to see Sa'Luk.
He's a pretty big schemer too. He betrays his comrades in order to turn once loyal men against their leader(Aladin's father Cassim).
Not to mention he has a catchy musical number.

 

[Raggedstar]

A good selection. Disney has lots of others, but some like the Coachman from Pinnochio wouldn't really fit. I'd prefer to see ones with unique talents that set them apart from just your average boss fight.

Shortly after finishing KH2, I wrote some fanfic stories with Sora encountering a new alliance of my personal favourite Disney villains, and of course I'd love to see any of them show up with expanded roles:

Judge Claude Frollo
Davy Jones (I mean c'mon he sealed his HEART in a chest, how could you not?)
Doctor Facilier
David Xanatos

Obviously Xanatos was the mastermind of this bunch, and I know Frollo isn't exactly a world-class swordsman. Although since I'm including one animated TV villain I've opened the floodgates for Mozenrath, Negaduck and other well-liked ones.

Perhaps not an "expanded role" (and if you're already aware, my apologies) but he was a villain in Kingdom Hearts 3D. Mind you they squandered that opportunity badly. They did practically NOTHING with the source material besides following moth-eaten Cliff's Notes of the story, but he was there. Not even a boss either (Wargoyle, a rainbow bat creature with TERRIBLE placement in Riku's story) so he didn't do a whole lot before biting the dust besides "Gwar, I'm evil and stuff".

Davy Jones I can dig though. POTC wasn't a perfect fit for KH2, but definitely you can do something with him. Mozenrath was a cool dude too, though it would be REALLY out of left-field if he was included.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

snip

Perhaps not an "expanded role" (and if you're already aware, my apologies) but he was a villain in Kingdom Hearts 3D. Mind you they squandered that opportunity badly. They did practically NOTHING with the source material besides following moth-eaten Cliff's Notes of the story, but he was there. Not even a boss either (Wargoyle, a rainbow bat creature with TERRIBLE placement in Riku's story) so he didn't do a whole lot before biting the dust besides "Gwar, I'm evil and stuff".

Davy Jones I can dig though. POTC wasn't a perfect fit for KH2, but definitely you can do something with him. Mozenrath was a cool dude too, though it would be REALLY out of left-field if he was included.

In fact I did not know that, hadn't played KH3D. Bleh, waste of a great villainous role. Was the replacement for sir Tony Jay at least passable?

Agreed on Mozenrath, but if they ever went back to Agrabah you'd need someone powerful and stylish to replace Jafar.

 

[Raggedstar]

In fact I did not know that, hadn't played KH3D. Bleh, waste of a great villainous role. Was the replacement for sir Tony Jay at least passable?

It's Yen Sid's voice actor, so a bit on the dry side. Not GREAT, but in his defence it's a really hard voice to replace. The quality of the material didn't help either as the story is pretty thin. The way the game works is that you play both Sora and Riku and you switch off based on a timer. It's practically the same story told twice through SLIGHTLY different scenes and much of the environment recycled between them (like Birth By Sleep, but with less content and weaker story).

Spoiler: Recent game, so spoiler tags

The story is different in the nitty gritty, but it's still Frollo walking around Paris, stomping out the gypsies with his "righteous judgment" (through the Dream Eaters, the game's enemies), and then ultimately being defeated. The movie's climax on top of Notre Dame is only kept intact in Sora's story (and I admit, they did it pretty closely, even though you're on the ground fighting Wargoyle during all this).

The story in general in this game is pretty sparse and yet so padded.

As a note, it would be a good idea to familiarize yourself with the game, even if for just the final hour where about 75% of the story happens in cutscenes. This game is supposed to set the stage for KH3, hastily try to summarize and tie together past titles, and a lot of stuff happens in the final act (unless they recap, it'll be like going from KH1 to KH2 again where you wonder what the hell happened). If you're not familiar with Birth By Sleep, same goes with that.

 

[digipinky75910]

Oh I absolutely *loved* the Hunchback inclusion in 3D -

I thought in the past, "Oh sure, it'd be nice, but they're never gonna make a world on that."

Then suddenly this, and I'm like 0_0 Riku is every character in this story...

 

[SoreWristed]

Oh god, i would love a chance to run around in king candy's domain. *kitten-like stare of intense joy*
But the movie tiptoed some legal domains, quite narrowly IMO. Which was surely noticable due to the incredible lack of Mario characters or references. I'd almost think the video game world would be ruled by Mario.

Also, it'd be a bit too meta for me to get my head around video game characters going to a video game character's world. I like the occasional wink at the fourth wall, but this would invite a tad too much of it.

 

[digipinky75910]

Also, it'd be a bit too meta for me to get my head around video game characters going to a video game character's world. I like the occasional wink at the fourth wall, but this would invite a tad too much of it.

Ever play Marvel Ultimate Alliance?

One of my favorite levels is run by Marvel villain Arcade, who literally traps you into a video game (while you are playing a video game) and you have to defeat classic games like Pitfall and Pinball etc to get out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny1wM35rxVU

 

[Lilani]

Oh god, i would love a chance to run around in king candy's domain. *kitten-like stare of intense joy*
But the movie tiptoed some legal domains, quite narrowly IMO. Which was surely noticable due to the incredible lack of Mario characters or references. I'd almost think the video game world would be ruled by Mario.

Also, it'd be a bit too meta for me to get my head around video game characters going to a video game character's world. I like the occasional wink at the fourth wall, but this would invite a tad too much of it.

Yeah, if they did visit Wreck It Ralph's world, they'd have to stick around the Candy Kingdom, and maybe make a few generic references (like eating power-up fruit or that sort of thing).

In fact I did not know that, hadn't played KH3D. Bleh, waste of a great villainous role. Was the replacement for sir Tony Jay at least passable?

It's Yen Sid's voice actor, so a bit on the dry side. Not GREAT, but in his defence it's a really hard voice to replace. The quality of the material didn't help either as the story is pretty thin. The way the game works is that you play both Sora and Riku and you switch off based on a timer. It's practically the same story told twice through SLIGHTLY different scenes and much of the environment recycled between them (like Birth By Sleep, but with less content and weaker story).

Spoiler: Recent game, so spoiler tags

The story is different in the nitty gritty, but it's still Frollo walking around Paris, stomping out the gypsies with his "righteous judgment" (through the Dream Eaters, the game's enemies), and then ultimately being defeated. The movie's climax on top of Notre Dame is only kept intact in Sora's story (and I admit, they did it pretty closely, even though you're on the ground fighting Wargoyle during all this).

The story in general in this game is pretty sparse and yet so padded.

As a note, it would be a good idea to familiarize yourself with the game, even if for just the final hour where about 75% of the story happens in cutscenes. This game is supposed to set the stage for KH3, hastily try to summarize and tie together past titles, and a lot of stuff happens in the final act (unless they recap, it'll be like going from KH1 to KH2 again where you wonder what the hell happened). If you're not familiar with Birth By Sleep, same goes with that.

I really wish they would revisit the Hunchback of Notre Dame, the world really did feel sparse. I'd be tempted to say it was a limitation of the handheld console, but to me the Olympus Coliseum felt the same way in KH2. My suspension of disbelief is very flexible, but having the sounds of roaring crowds within the coliseum but with absolutely nothing in the stands just did not cut it for me.