Know of any mature/serious anime?

[Liudeius]

Well I agree with all your points on the anime you mentioned, so I assume we have similar taste. Note I haven't seen the entirety of all the anime I am recommending. (I saw all of them with subs, I don't know the dub's quality.)

Kino's Journey: About a young girl exploring her world which is separated into "countries" with completely different technological levels and political systems. She's not at all sexualized and is very much a level-headed survivalist/badass with a gun.
It explores her interaction with different systems of government and states of being (slavery, anarchy, democracy to the extreme, utopia).
It has action, but it focuses more heavily on people.

Mushi-shi: A very mystical anime, it's about a man who wanders from feudal Japanese village to village helping people affected by "mushi" (spirits basically). It doesn't really have action from what I've seen, but it tells stories of how the mushi have effected the lives of those around them as the main character works to freeing those afflicted from the influence of the mushi.
(I've not seen very much of it though, I could be wrong, it could suddenly become completely different.)

Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo: A very mature anime. It does have (some) sex, but it is used as an actual plot point, not fan-service. Apparently it's (loosely) based off the book by the same name, and it's the only Gonzo anime I've watched which isn't absolute trash.
It based in a futuristic Earth where space travel is possible and the populations have been divided into the absurdly rich aristocracy and the poor. It's about a mysterious count who is wealthy beyond measure and seems to have a past with the main character's mother (though no one but them knows about it). It follows the count's manipulation of fellow aristocrats to throw them and their families into chaos.

Sword Art Online: Only the first 1/4 is very good. The second 1/4 becomes more ecchi and less quality. Skip the second 1/2.
It's about a gamer who, along with 10k people, is trapped within a game, death in game is death in real life. The first quarter does a good job looking at how the society of the game evolves with this, and how loss effects the main character and other players.
The second 1/4 becomes more about the relationship between the male and female main characters, it's pretty meh, basically how a teenage boy would fantasize about marriage probably.
The first arc is wrapped-up with a sudden and extremely disappointing ending. To make it worse, the describe a better ending while doing it.
Do not watch the second 1/2 though (episode 14+). The main female character (strong, if withdrawn, in the first 1/4 and domestic in the second 1/4) exists in the second half solely to be repeatedly molested and raped and every single female character, including the main male character's cousin, exists to lust after him.

Studio Ghibil: All of their anime I've seen is good, I didn't necessarily like it all, but it was well done.
I would highly recommend Princess Mononoke.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

Evangelion doesn't have symbolism. It's not that the religious symbols are meaningless, it's that they aren't symbols. You could write a paper on Evangelion and disconnect of mythic resonance. Even most Eva fans don't get this, to my eternal irritation.

You know what the funny thing is? The religious names and imagery was never supposed to be anything exept a framing device for the lore of the show. It's only because it's Christian, and thus meaningful to the western world, that so much emphasis is placed on it by both fans and non-fans. People often draw the "Gainax admitted the religious symbolism holds no real meaning" card as being a fault of the show, but it's just them reading too much into it.

And that's why you're worthy to be my eternal rival =). That is exactly my point, you just explained it better. Christian symbolism has no resonance with the Japanese cultural consciousness, because a whopping 2% of Japan is Christian (Thanks, CIA World Fact Book!). It's really not much more than a leitmotif (although I think there was some actual Jewish symbols in End of Eva, but I've only seen it once so I'd have to watch it again so if that's really the case).

For example, suppose instead of Angels the alien monsters were called Genies, and they were attacking NERV attempting to claim a giant black meteorite kept in the Terminal Dogma. Well damn, now they're just throwing in a bunch of pointless Islamic religious symbolism...that you didn't even know was there.

and the symbolism is shot at you with a cannon just for the hell of it even if it doesn't serve the narrative.

Evangelion doesn't have symbolism. It's not that the religious symbols are meaningless, it's that they aren't symbols. You could write a paper on Evangelion and disconnect of mythic resonance. Even most Eva fans don't get this, to my eternal irritation.

You could write a paper about pretty much every topic out there and pin it on Evangelion...that anime is so bloated with symbols and metaphors that you could stick any topic on it and call it a perfect fit!

See above.

Also, I love how all the topics here drift away and go from
Anime recommendations->Evangelion->Woman figures in anime->feminism
Next stop: Nazis! xD

Hellsing Ultimate sure is an awesome show. Nazi vampires ftw, amirite?

And anime feminism is easy:
Rose of Versailles -> Revolutionary Girl Utena -> idk other stuff -> Attack on Titan -> Free!, just for funzies

most of the cast are adults and they aren't whiney they're driven by forces beyond their control. As oppose to in Eva where they use said forces to as an excuse for whatever serves their ego rather than progress the plot (by that i just mean move forward).

>Adults
If you say so

>Not whiny
Kiba: *brood* *brood* *paradise* */wrists*
Tsume: I hate you all this is dumb I hate everything I'm leaving no wait nvm I'm back

Do I need to go on?

Average on par my arse. The dub is almost all-star of eng dubs, most of the dialogue isn't as stilted in Wolf's Rain and there's less talking in circles or Speechifying.

You're clearly confused here. I'm the one who hates dubs, you're the one who's supposed to be defending them, not the other way around.

On the other hand, it does have Johnny Yong Bosch and Crispin Freeman, which by the Law of Voice Actors I believe means it gets a perfect score, so I'll concede the point.

Did we mention Metropolis yet, love that movie.

Now you're just fucking with me, aren't you?

 

[Therumancer]

I've never been big on anime, but I recently decided to give it another shot.
The thing is I have quite a low tolerance for "weird shit" (for lack of a better term), which makes it hard to find anime that doesn't get on my nerves after a while.
I was just wondering if you guys had any recommendations for "serious" anime (also for lack of a better term) that manages to avoid common anime tropes like gratuitous fan service and seemingly schizophrenic characters.

Here's what I've tried already, and what I thought about it:

Spoiler

Fullmetal Alchemist - I liked it, though it was a while ago so I don't recall a whole lot. Nothing irritating really comes to mind.

Death Note - One of my favourite animes, even though I really hated the "Misa-Misa" character; was cleverly written with interesting characters and a cool premise.

Ghost in the Shell - Pretty good, though there was too much expository dialogue for my liking, especially amongst the annoyingly out-of-place cutesy robots. Also, it was hard to take the Major seriously as a badass military commander when she constantly dressed like a stripper.

Cowboy Bebop - This is what got me back into anime after a long time. I thought it was really cool, with its bluesy atmosphere and subtle character development. Although Faye annoyed me in almost every possible way; even the character herself seemed to realise her only real purpose was to wiggle her bum in front of the camera.

Trigun - I watched this because I heard it was similar to the above. I found it bearable at best. The world was dull and none of the characters made sense in their motivations or choices. Every single thing that happens is unrealistic and contrived, without any kind of clever writing to back it up. It was just "Rule of Cool" gone awry, and I found it a bit sophomoric.

Baccano! - Similar to Trigun, very little makes sense. Which is compounded by the crazy non-linear story-telling. Although that was interesting to watch unfold, and I understood the sequence of events by the end, I just don't understand the point. I didn't really identify with any of the characters, who all seemed insane in one way or another, and the story just seems to meander around without any kind of unifying theme or over-arching goal. I didn't actually mind Isaac and Miria... maybe my tolerance for bullshit anime antics is increasing.

Code Geass - Currently watching this. It's very enjoyable, especially the second season. Reminds me a lot of Death Note. But goddamn, they never seem to miss an opportunity to have the principle female characters get naked, or frame an upskirt camera angle, even when they're in the middle of a battle you're supposed to be taking seriously. It undermines both the characters, and the themes, tone and tension of the whole show when important characters are gratuitously sexualised to such a ridiculous extent. Imagine if Walter White from Breaking Bad was constantly surrounded by schoolgirls in miniskirts flashing their panties at the camera... it would not be the same show. It just ruins it a bit for me.

Other anime that looks interesting are: Gantz, Berserk and Elfen Lied.
Possibly Neon Genesis Evangelion too, though several people have tried to talk me out of bothering with that series.

So, know of any other "serious" anime?


Edit: Oh yeah, and do mention whether the dub is decent or I should watch it subtitled. Nothing turns me off quicker than goofy, bad voice-acting.

Hmmm, well you've covered most of what I'd have suggested. To be honest I confess I find what you claim you want to be kind of contradictory, namely because unless I misunderstand what you mean by "Weird Shit" I don't see how you could have liked Fullmetal Alchemist which is about as "pure fantasy" as you can get. The way you describe Code Geass also raises an eyebrow, I'm not a fan, but that's hardly a fan service Anime, and I don't even come close to seeing it make sense with your Breaking Bad analogy (though there is Anime where it would make sense). Overall I can see why Anime isn't really your thing, as it pretty much exists as a way of doing all that crazy/sexy crap that would be nearly impossible to do in a live action movie or big budget production. What Animes succeed in the US either do it because of the "Uncensored" deviant nature of the material, or the way it plays around with high concept fantasy and sci-fi ideas that Hollywood tends to avoid for fear of alienating the audience, sometimes both.... or at least good anime does.

That said there are exceptions, most of which are relative failures. "Berserk" and "Gantz" which you mention are pretty good and close to what your probably looking for, BUT have crappy endings/cliffhangers and were never continued due to at best mixed receptions. The Mangas they were based on were more successful though and to the best of my knowledge they survived in that format (Berserk in particular is supposed to be really long running). Of the two "Berserk" is the better work writing wise, "Gantz" is mostly noteworthy for a rather interesting premise, but never really delivers to it's full potential.

This will probably sound odd but SOME of the Gundam works like 7th MS Division (I think it was called) and maybe "Gundam W" or "Seed" might do it for you. Basically you need to suspend disbelief to the point of accepting that there are robotic war machines piloted by humans as impractical as that idea is, and then that there are special ones a few generations ahead of what the rest of the military are using in the hands of a few people that can make a mess out of what are now basically conventional forces in the context of the universe. Once you get past that your typical "Gundam" storyline is your basic "Warrior's Journey" tale told again and again with a few variations, of the different series I've seen "W" stands out as having the most twists without getting entirely insane. Gundam is however a mixed bag as some of it goes from being science fiction into flat out super hero territory, one of the reasons why trying to wrap your head around crossover products can be mind blowing since the concepts all under the "Gundam" game do not play well together. "G Gundam" for example is totally ridiculous.

While it goes further into fantasy territory I'd also recommend a restored version of "Escaflowne" NOT the version from US TV or the "Girl From Gaia" movie.

Another really good one is actually "Speed Grapher" it however involves superhumans, and a super villain whose motivation is to wreck the global economy by luring the rich and famous into a sex cult. It's a series that doesn't involve spontaneous panty shots or anything when it's otherwise trying to be serious, but it does involve some very risqué scenes at times. The focus here mostly comes down to a reporter who gains the super ability to blow up anything he can see through a camera trying to break this cult/conspiracy while various superhuman agents of said cult try and kill him. There are a few twists along the way but that's in a nutshell. It has it's crazy moments, but tries to go for a more realistic vibe than most other things. I personally consider it less over the top than say "Fullmetal Alchemist" which is also an anime I like, but is non-stop insanity (which is why I find your rating odd).


That said most of my personal favorites, things like say "Lost Universe" are pretty much everything you wouldn't like from an Anime.

 

[ImperialSunlight]

I recommend Basalisk, I watched it recently and it is definitely one of the most serious, no-nonsense anime I've ever seen, besides a few sexual scenes, which don't feel out of place. The animation style is amazing, and the dub is very good.

Darker than black is another that shouldn't bother you, at least the first season, I haven't seen the second, and the first is fairly self contained anyway. Good dub. The only characters that might get annoying are the otaku girl and failure detective who come up every so often for comic relief.

From what I remember, Le Chevalier D'Eon didn't have many of the things you mentioned disliking and the concept is certainly not utterly cliche. The dub for it was also good. If you are into French history, I absolutely recommend it (though historical accuracy is not something I'd laud it for, not that that should matter especially for the enjoyment of the show itself).

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

Hmmm, well you've covered most of what I'd have suggested. To be honest I confess I find what you claim you want to be kind of contradictory, namely because unless I misunderstand what you mean by "Weird Shit" I don't see how you could have liked Fullmetal Alchemist which is about as "pure fantasy" as you can get.

Well, by "weird shit" I'm not really referring to fantastical elements as much as I'm referring to tonally incongruous elements, such as an otherwise serious show suddenly having an "all the female characters dress in bikinis and chase the guys around" episode. With something like Fullmetal Alchemist, it at least remains consistent and I can tell what I'll be getting from the beginning.

Secondly, what I like at any given point (as with most people) largely depends on my mood, and right now I'd like to see what anime has to offer in the "serious/though-provoking" department. Though maybe I'll remove the reference to FMA, just so people don't get confused.

Edit: Also, people keep saying "Code Geass isn't that bad for fan service", and that may be true compared to other anime, but like I said, I've got a low tolerance for that sort of stuff and even the allegedly small amount in Code Geass grates on me (it's the worst I've ever come across, with at least one instance of gratuitous titillation per episode).

 

[Cpu46]

Spoiler: Eureka Seven

Hands down my absolute favorite series to date.

Though most people say it is Evangelion Lite I feel it stands perfectly on it's own merits. It is one of my favorite coming of age stories and is one of the only series I have watched more than twice. It covers a lot of rather mature topics without becoming horribly dark and is one of the best love stories I have seen in most works of fiction. Honestly the trailer does not do it any justice.

The dub voice actors capture their characters completely and perfectly so I can not recommend the dub enough.

Spoiler: Heroman

Though Heroman is generally quite over the top and more than a little campy at times but I still think it deserves watching.

While not serious like other shows being recommended none of the characters are totally off the wall. The hero and his gang realize what is at stake and don't goof off until they feel everything is taken care of. As soon as danger reappears they go back to business. The only scenery chewing characters are an evil scientist who is really more of a minor villain and a good scientist who drops his eccentricity the moment he realizes what is on the line. The show is beautiful beyond words, second only to Eureka Seven in my books, not surprising since both come from Studio Bones and this one was made in conjunction with Stan FREAKING Lee.
Yes he makes a cameo... You read that right, even in anime, Stan Lee must appear.

I have only watched the Sub.

Also from what I have seen of Last Exile it could fit what you are looking for. That said I have only seen the first 5 or so episodes. Great Dub so far and the animation, though shaky at times when it relies on CG effects is still top notch.

 

[jhoroz]

Fate/Zero-It's pretty much "Game of Thrones" the anime. It is a magical battle royale between 7 magi that summon legendary heroic spirits from history in order to combat each other for the ultimate prize of the Holy Grail, an item said to be able to grant any miracle or wish for the victor who claims it. It deals with morally ambiguous protagonists, a majority of whom fulfill the criteria for your classic Byronic Hero. It's dark, serious and mature throughout of the majority of the time. There is humour in it, but instead of being wacky and annoying, it actual works as a benefit and helps add a bit of variety for what is for the most part a pretty grim and intense show. It is a prequel to the Fate/Stay Night anime, but I don't recommend watching F/SN since it spoils Zero and has everything you loath in anime. The show is an ensemble cast, like Baccano, and the writer manages to make almost every character stand out and appear interesting, which makes you conflicted and unsure of just who to root for (which is a good thing, since it demolishes the black and white mentality that's prevalent in a majority of shounen). There is also absolutely no fanservice at all in it. If you enjoy the show, I also recommend Kara no Kyuokai movies, which were animated by the same company who did Zero. Here is a compilation of all the master-servants trailers from F/Z:


This is show is pretty much my favourite modern anime (as in an anime that's come out in the past three years) and, in my humble opinion, surpasses both Code Geass and Death Note for me. I'll also echo all the other people who have said Monster, which is my no.1 anime of all time and fits the criteria of what you want perfectly.

 

[Saltyk]

Well, if Code Geass is just too much fanservice for you, you should avoid High School of the Dead like it has the plague. That show defines fanservice. Though, I kinda agree with JessuOtaku on it. Despite the insane levels of it, it kinda works. Call it a guilty pleasure in that, I suppose.

Histories Strongest Disciple Kenichi is also pretty bad about fan service, though I think the anime ends at the end of the first major arc in the story, too.

Honestly, I can't think of too many to recommend. But the Gundam animes tend to be pretty serious. Even the original series is very serious and treats the characters with some respect. Heroes aren't infallible and always rights. Villains are pure evil without any redeeming qualities.

The Big O is also an interesting series. It doesn't fall into the bipolar character trope as far as I remember. It's actually pretty damn serious, though the theme kinda sucks. Also, giant robots. A few monsters, too.

Spoiler: The old Toonami trailer. If they can't interest you in it, no one can.

Outlaw Star could be hit or miss for you. It's kinda like the cousin of Trigun. Rule of Cool would probably apply in force. Starships with arms fighting in space. A girl who uses a wooden sword to fight and regularly beats people with guns. A kid that is more mature and smarter than many adults. I'm probably not helping my case, but you should try at least a few episodes.

Also, this isn't an anime, though it does have some anime influence, but you may wanna look into Avatar: The Last Airbender. It's a damn good show. Rarely will you ever hear anyone that has given it a chance speak anything but praise for it. Not perfect, but much better than 90% of the shows out there you will see.

 

[Therumancer]

Hmmm, well you've covered most of what I'd have suggested. To be honest I confess I find what you claim you want to be kind of contradictory, namely because unless I misunderstand what you mean by "Weird Shit" I don't see how you could have liked Fullmetal Alchemist which is about as "pure fantasy" as you can get.

Well, by "weird shit" I'm not really referring to fantastical elements as much as I'm referring to tonally incongruous elements, such as an otherwise serious show suddenly having an "all the female characters dress in bikinis and chase the guys around" episode. With something like Fullmetal Alchemist, it at least remains consistent and I can tell what I'll be getting from the beginning.

Secondly, what I like at any given point (as with most people) largely depends on my mood, and right now I'd like to see what anime has to offer in the "serious/though-provoking" department. Though maybe I'll remove the reference to FMA, just so people don't get confused.

Edit: Also, people keep saying "Code Geass isn't that bad for fan service", and that may be true compared to other anime, but like I said, I've got a low tolerance for that sort of stuff and even the allegedly small amount in Code Geass grates on me (it's the worst I've ever come across, with at least one instance of gratuitous titillation per episode).

Hmm, I guess I can't see it with Code Geass because of all the other stuff I've seen. To be honest given how big a role at least T&A plays in anime (being able to be irreverent with sex and violence is part of the point) it's actually hard to find anime that has less. If you see more Anime you'll probably understand the comments a bit more and be able to look past it if it bugs you. I suggested Gundam because in most of them the show is faced largely around the action and the women don't generally find cause to get undressed at all, romantic subplots are usually tertiary.

The thing with serious and thought provoking Anime is oddly that most Anime that attempts that winds up failing for one reason or another. The high concepts that attract a lot of geeks to Anime tend to also come with a lot of irreverence, and the show developers intentionally try and lighten things up a bit when they get too serious. Conversely a standard anime trope is to make a show that is totally whimsical but they gets REALLY serious towards the end as they demonstrate that the world they established has rules, and they proceed to follow them closely as really bad things happen. "The Slayers" is an example of this latter school of thought "Trigun" and "Lost Universe" are done by the same basic people and follow that pattern. Some of the Tenchi Muyo stories go from a lighthearted harem anime, to pretty much wrecking 9/10ths of the cast in the finale. If you ever wondered why Ryoko was popular, it pretty much comes down to her apparent death scene in "Tenchi Universe"... but this is getting well off topic.

People already suggested most of the really serious anime I know of, but here is a rundown of sorts in a little more detail:

Serial Experiments Lain: This is an exercise in surrealism dealing with an ancient cult trying to fulfill a prophecy by blending a virtual purely mathematical reality (the internet) into the real one. This is done by creating an AI and manifesting it as a real person, and then causing it to re-submerge into pure information in the process taking the rest of reality with it.


Boogiepop Phantom: This is pretty much what you get when the Japanese try and cross "The X-men" with J-horror tropes. It's based on a REALLY involved series of light novels, manga, and associated products which were truly hip in Japan for a while. The anime suffers by pretty much jumping into one of the more popular storylines, and assuming the person watching it is at least familiar with a lot of the products that inspired it. A few things are explained in flashbacks or flash forwards, but really this is one where what amounted to a glossary on my DVD copy was needed to really figure out all the subtexts. Making this even more complicated is that it's a non-sequentially told mystery...

The basic premise of this one is that you have kids who develop powers but those powers tend to come with a serious downside when used (sort of like "Haven" on TV nowadays) and can cause a lot of collateral damage even if unintentionally. There is a being called "Boogiepop" which is more or less seen as an urban legend that runs around killing kids, who is actually one of these super beings who is killing others specifically to protect everyone else from the collateral damage. Complicating things is that there is a government program creating supermen to also hunt down and kill the kids for the same reason (yes I know, your creating super beings anyway... great solution). The thing you have to really "get" here is that Boogiepop was duplicated by events they only briefly show during the series but are more well known to fans of the story. Thus you have the "Boogiepop Phantom" wandering around alongside the actual Boogiepop with a slightly different agenda which I won't go into in case you actually watch it. The story is told mostly from the perspective of the teenagers many of whom despite the development of powers become something akin to horror movie victims, while others attempt to solve the mystery. Being non sequential with so many killers running around 90% of it involves trying to figure out who actually killed who and why and it's even more of a problem when you don't even have the basic knowledge of who the players are supposed to be beforehand. Also without grounding in the universe it can be kind of hard to figure out why your supposed to be as invested in what's going on as the series seems to expect you to be.


Perfect Blue: This is a surrealistic psycho-horror movie that is seriously overrated. If your familiar with what happened between the now dead Mexican singer "Selena" and the head of her fanclub you pretty much know this movie verbatim since that's what it's based on, the characters even looking the part of the real players. I actually thought it was pretty terrible, but it has a lot of fans. Most people don't make the IRL connection since everyone in the movie is Japanese, but I read some stuff in old Japanese periodicals spelling it out and I believe there was a lawsuit over it at one point that failed.

"Paranoia Agent": This one is pretty much about the investigation of an urban legend involving some little dude who beats jerks to death, whether it's real, whether it's a person, and what could actually cause it, since nobody seems to take it seriously.

At any rate, enough rambling, what I'm saying is probably a serious turn off. To be honest if you liked the fantastic elements of "Fullmetal Alchemist" there is probably a lot of Anime you'd enjoy, but the problem is trying to think of things that don't involve at least a little T&A or at least one really over the top "for the laughs" episode to defuse tension if nothing else.

For the record though it would be awesome if they tried to do more serious anime, but I think the (relative) failures have made it unlikely, and that even ones that succeed in Japan are unlikely to make it here to the US due to the mixed reception. While it was a long time ago I seem to remember "Boogiepop Phantom" took a fortune in licensing to get a US release due to the success of the overall IP, and it wasn't a blockbuster.

 

[Wigz]

It's pretty ridiculous how similar your opinions on anime are to mine, they honestly seem identical.

With that said I highly recommend Darker than Black . I wont explain anything about it to avoid spoiling any of the show's mystery (it's pretty much based around it, to the point where the viewer isn't meant to know the context for most things, instead you get drip fed the information as it becomes relevant) but I will say that it has a great dub and it's my favorite show outright, not just my favorite anime. Also make sure that you watch at least the first 6 episodes before you give up if for some reason you're not liking it (which seems really unlikely anyway based off of your taste in anime).

Also I should probably mention the order that the show is meant to be watched in:

Season 1
Season 1 OVA (aka Episode 26)
Season 2 (aka Gemini of the Meteor)
Season 2 OVAs (aka Gaiden)

Some people seem to think that the Season 2 OVAs should be watched before Season 2, but trust me that's wrong.

Basically I can't recommend Darker than Black enough and it seems like it suits your taste perfectly.


Also, a few other animes I liked, in order of how much I enjoyed them:

• Persona 4: The Animation - Although definitely only watch this if you've played Persona 4, if you haven't then take this as a recommendation to play Persona 3 and 4, preferably in that order.
  
  Durarara - Good dub, generally a really good show, only a bit of fanservice stuff.
  
  Angel Beats - I was fine with the dub but I've seen people say they hate it. The show itself wasn't that great but the ending was so brilliant that it carried the whole thing for me, and it's only 13 episodes.
  
  Hellsing Ultimate - Not to be taken too seriously due to a goofy plot and the quality being really inconsistent, I still somewhat enjoyed it though. Probably not worth watching unless you've run out of other good recommendations.

Wow, that ended up being longer than I meant it to be. Btw It's nice to see that there are others who hate fanservice crap and "weird shit" (I get what you mean by that, and I don't know a better way to put it either) as much as I do.

 

[A Shadows Age]

I've never been big on anime, but I recently decided to give it another shot.
The thing is I have quite a low tolerance for "weird shit" (for lack of a better term), which makes it hard to find anime that doesn't get on my nerves after a while.
I was just wondering if you guys had any recommendations for "serious" anime (also for lack of a better term) that manages to avoid common anime tropes like gratuitous fan service and seemingly schizophrenic characters.

Here's what I've tried already, and what I thought about it:

Spoiler

Death Note - One of my favourite animes, even though I really hated the "Misa-Misa" character; was cleverly written with interesting characters and a cool premise.

Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - Pretty good, though there was too much expository dialogue for my liking, especially amongst the annoyingly out-of-place cutesy robots. Also, it was hard to take the Major seriously as a badass military commander when she constantly dressed like a stripper.

Cowboy Bebop - This is what got me back into anime after a long time. I thought it was really cool, with its bluesy atmosphere and subtle character development. Although Faye annoyed me in almost every possible way; even the character herself seemed to realise her only real purpose was to wiggle her bum in front of the camera.

Trigun - I watched this because I heard it was similar to the above. I found it bearable at best. The world was dull and none of the characters made sense in their motivations or choices. Every single thing that happens is unrealistic and contrived, without any kind of clever writing to back it up. It was just "Rule of Cool" gone awry, and I found it a bit sophomoric.

Baccano! - Similar to Trigun, very little makes sense. Which is compounded by the crazy non-linear story-telling. Although that was interesting to watch unfold, and I understood the sequence of events by the end, I just don't understand the point. I didn't really identify with any of the characters, who all seemed insane in one way or another, and the story just seems to meander around without any kind of unifying theme or over-arching goal. I didn't actually mind Isaac and Miria... maybe my tolerance for bullshit anime antics is increasing.

Code Geass - Currently watching this. It's very enjoyable, especially the second season. Reminds me a lot of Death Note. But goddamn, they never seem to miss an opportunity to have the principle female characters get naked, or frame an upskirt camera angle, even when they're in the middle of a battle you're supposed to be taking seriously. It undermines both the characters, and the themes, tone and tension of the whole show when important characters are gratuitously sexualised to such a ridiculous extent. Imagine if Walter White from Breaking Bad was constantly surrounded by schoolgirls in miniskirts flashing their panties at the camera... it would not be the same show. It just ruins it a bit for me.

Other anime that looks interesting are: Gantz, Berserk and Elfen Lied.
Possibly Neon Genesis Evangelion too, though several people have tried to talk me out of bothering with that series.

So, know of any other "serious" anime?


Edit: Oh yeah, and do mention whether the dub is decent or I should watch it subtitled. Nothing turns me off quicker than goofy, bad voice-acting.

Maybe berserk, avoid the other two. Weird-G., Nude-E.L.
Avoid that magica/crap- tried it, no-go.
NGE- if you like angst and mind fuck, Or just giant "robots"... then go for it.

You might-might not like.

Black lagoon - modern pirates.
Desert punk - slice of life in crapsack word.
Samaria Champloo - wicked fight scenes.
Monster - you liked death note ?


Black lagoon: Pirates of the modern kind. some people like the dub, I think it REALLY REALLY sucks. Tried it dubbed and just couldn't swallow the amount of suck. Watch subbed or avoid watching.

Desert punk: pro's: deranged. Con's: fan service of the non accidental kind, Slow start, slice of life in crapsack world.

Planet es: Garbage men in space. Pro's: better than it sounds. Con's: slice of life, on the slowish side.

Monster... watch it if you can tolerate it, you liked death note ?

Sword of the stranger: Different... somethings off. Pro's: when the fights are fought they are good. Con's: When they're not, it's slowish.

Infinate ryvious- con's: can't ever remember how to spell it, not really an action anime, slow but constant-ish, SPACE!. Pro's: Interesting.

Samurai shamploo: Pro's: wicked fight scenes, lots of attitude. Storylines of mugen and jean not boring even if they are mostly inferred. Well done for what it's trying to do, no duece-ass-enimas here. Con's: what it's trying to do is a bit anachronistic and therefore weird. (random beat-boxing peasant laborers. Tengu-mask wearing shinobi? trying to overthrow the emperor?/Shogun? With sacred grass i.e. weed... yeah.)

Jin roah wolf brigade: con's: Kinda depressing. Pro's: realstic-ish (everything but the fallout like armor)




Not what you are looking for / fucking weird. But recommended because they're an alternative to hallucinogens.



Paranoia Agent: just remember as you watch it to look at it from the characters point of view, name of the game is the Title. This anime is an agent of paranoia. Con's: not what your looking for, perspective of characters makes it a mind fuck of epic proportions, have to constantly remember there's nothing paranormal going on the caracters are just hallucinating as they lose their fucking minds. Pro's: very well done, paranormal vs paranoia view is up for interpretation. Serious... Also up for interpretation, I laughed my fucking ass off.

FLCL: Pro/Con: What. The. fuck. Did I just watch...?

Shin chan... Adult things from the mouth of a child.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

Avoid that magica/crap- tried it, no-go.

You're clearly just trying to hide the fact that you cried at the end of episode three. Don't worry, you can admit it, we won't make fun of you.

Edit: Also, people keep saying "Code Geass isn't that bad for fan service", and that may be true compared to other anime, but like I said, I've got a low tolerance for that sort of stuff and even the allegedly small amount in Code Geass grates on me (it's the worst I've ever come across, with at least one instance of gratuitous titillation per episode).

Okay, let me clarify something here. Broadly speaking, Code Geass isn't "that bad" for fanservice, no. But that's only true if you lump everything together. I mean, by that logic High School of the Dead isn't "that bad" because it has no bare breasts - after all, Code Geass has a full 0.0000021 seconds of nipple. I think I can say with some confidence that Code Geass has the most fanservice out of any Robot Warfare Political Drama anime.

Well, by "weird shit" I'm not really referring to fantastical elements as much as I'm referring to tonally incongruous elements, such as an otherwise serious show suddenly having an "all the female characters dress in bikinis and chase the guys around" episode. With something like Fullmetal Alchemist, it at least remains consistent and I can tell what I'll be getting from the beginning.

Secondly, what I like at any given point (as with most people) largely depends on my mood, and right now I'd like to see what anime has to offer in the "serious/though-provoking" department. Though maybe I'll remove the reference to FMA, just so people don't get confused.

Let me give this another stab.

Basically, I can give you serious, I can give you thought-provoking, and I can give you good. Pick any two. The trouble, I suppose, is that a lot of anime, particularly contemporary stuff, treats thought-provoking stuff in an...odd way. "Irreverent" is what somebody in the thread said, and I think that's a good way to put it. For example, there's:

Bakemonogatari
A novel about relationships, the male gaze, and Japanese wordplay. And then the most psychotic studio in Japan animated it. Thought-provoking, good, yes. Serious, no. Tonal inconsistency is the tone. It's also completely incomprehensible without a couple years of anime behind you - enough to guess at the meaning the subtitles can't get across.

Star Driver
Probably the smartest anime of the last decade, and nobody knows it. It's a needle of a philosophy lecture hidden in a haystack of magic giant robots fighting in pocket dimension piloted by highschool students in stripper outfits. It's mostly about sex. Thought-provoking, good, yes. Serious, LOL.

What you are looking for has been mentioned already: Mushishi and Kino's Journey. I found Mushishi to be dull, but that may have been because I watched it on the heels of Code Geass. Kino's Journey, however, I've seen just one episode of and I fell in love. I'll get the DVDs, you know...someday.

In the thought-provoking but not good category, we have things like:

Ghost in the Shell (the 1995 movie)
A simple detective plot made completely incomprehensible - even after multiple viewings - by what I suppose is genius editing, of a sort. What it means to be human is questioned, but it's not explored and doesn't really have anything to do with anything, so you can basically ignore that. The Bible's quoted once or twice. And if you thought the Major didn't wear much in Stand Alone Complex, well, at least she wore...clothes. Ever. But no, this is a very serious movie. Yes. Very very serious. And deep. Very deep.

Serial Experiments Lain
Eh...this doesn't quite belong here. The story was apparently written by someone who decided that the problem with Evangelion was that its plot was much too logical and straightforward. Like GitS, it raises questions but doesn't address them in any meaningful way. However, as a purely visual experience Lain is pretty much unparalleled.

And coming in to save the day, in the serious and good but not thought-provoking:

Fate/Zero
Fate/stay night is to Fate/Zero as Batman & Robin is to Batman Begins. The universe is so dense and there are so many characters at play the first episode is 40 minutes long just to introduce everything to you, and the series as a whole is surprisingly slow, but, well, take a look:
FUCK. YES.

And before I forget, the triple crown of serious, thought-provoking, and good does go to a couple movies - already mentioned of course. Satoshi Kon was a brilliant director with a psychedelic style that blurred the distinction between reality and dreams. Here are two of his films:

Perfect Blue
I did not like Perfect Blue. I thought it was slow and dull, and the fact that the animation is cheap even for 1998 doesn't help. But from an objective perspective this is one of the best damn movies I've seen in my life. It is the answer to "how does i maek good movie?". Not for the faint of heart, however.

Millennium Actress
Serious more in the way Pixar is serious than straight "serious", although it's nothing like a Pixar movie. A thousand years of time told as the biography of an actress told as a series of movies.

 

[ksn0va]

However, if you want a "serious" anime, I suggest Monster.

My recommendation have been stated before but I'll throw in my suggestions as well:

Monster The first anime that comes to mind when I think of mature anime. It's slow paced but very well grounded. It's all about a young surgeon who saves the life a young boy that grows into (well he sort of already was) a murderous sociopath. His whole life gets thrown upside down and he's got to stop the Monster he created.

Monster, just Monster.

Definitely sounds interesting. Is the dub any good, or should I watch it with subtitles?

Either is good actually.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

Okay, let me clarify something here. Broadly speaking, Code Geass isn't "that bad" for fanservice, no. But that's only true if you lump everything together. I mean, by that logic High School of the Dead isn't "that bad" because it has no bare breasts - after all, Code Geass has a full 0.0000021 seconds of nipple. I think I can say with some confidence that Code Geass has the most fanservice out of any Robot Warfare Political Drama anime.

I think if we include "striking ridiculous poses to look grandiose" and "obliterating entire armies with one attack" under the category of fan-service, it could get up to par against most anime.

What you are looking for has been mentioned already: Mushishi and Kino's Journey. I found Mushishi to be dull, but that may have been because I watched it on the heels of Code Geass. Kino's Journey, however, I've seen just one episode of and I fell in love. I'll get the DVDs, you know...someday.

I'm not so sure about Mushishi; the lack of an over-arching plotline seems like it would get boring.
Kino's Journey sounds interesting. I found the description on Wikipedia almost startling: "It's about a kid named Kino and his talking motorcycle who travel around the world savouring its beauty. Isn't that nice? Anyway, he carries the following weapons: a revolver with explosive rounds, an automatic pistol, a pump-action shotgun, a semi-automatic sniper rifle..." Wut.

Ghost in the Shell

Oh God, tell me about it. Did you see the second film, Innocence? I have literally never come across a more pretentious film in my life. 50% of the dialogue is quoting philosophy.

Perfect Blue
I did not like Perfect Blue. I thought it was slow and dull, and the fact that the animation is cheap even for 1998 doesn't help. But from an objective perspective this is one of the best damn movies I've seen in my life. It is the answer to "how does i maek good movie?". Not for the faint of heart, however.

I find it really interesting that you would say that, despite not even liking it. How could something be "objectively one of the best movies"?


Incidentally, I enjoy reading your posts. I can tell you have practice writing about this stuff: you have the kind of effortless insight and clarity that comes from solid experience. I think I'll check out your blog.

 

[Little Woodsman]

Oh, I totally forgot...if you can find it Romeo's Blue Skies.
Set in the 1800's story of a young Swiss boy who becomes a chimney sweep in Venice.
Very thought provoking about social themes and the things people do to each other.
I think you can find it all on youtube...

 

[Dr. Cakey]

Oh God, tell me about it. Did you see the second film, Innocence? I have literally never come across a more pretentious film in my life. 50% of the dialogue is quoting philosophy.

Nah, never watched the second movie. I mean, I didn't like the movie, the two episodes of the show I saw were dull, so why would I watch it? There are so many better things I could be doing, like watching Hyperdimension Neptunia having sex watching Sunday Without God.

Perfect Blue
I did not like Perfect Blue. I thought it was slow and dull, and the fact that the animation is cheap even for 1998 doesn't help. But from an objective perspective this is one of the best damn movies I've seen in my life. It is the answer to "how does i maek good movie?". Not for the faint of heart, however.

I find it really interesting that you would say that, despite not even liking it. How could something be "objectively one of the best movies"?

Well, first you have to believe that a story can be "objectively good", which is an idea I cling to despite its obvious falseness. But I suppose what I mean is that it is a model movie. It's compact, every scene has a purpose, I felt the emotions the movie was trying to make me feel, and the editing was - from the perspective of someone who has neither gone to film school nor shot a movie - brilliant. It also strikes an incredible balance where, while you're watching you literally have no idea what is real and what's a hallucination, but by the end everything makes sense.

Incidentally, I enjoy reading your posts. I can tell you have practice writing about this stuff: you have the kind of effortless insight and clarity that comes from solid experience. I think I'll check out your blog.

I was also voted People Magazine's Sexiest Man Alive three years in a row.

And thank you. I think you'll find my blog incredibly disappointing, though.

 

[Casual Shinji]

You know what the funny thing is? The religious names and imagery was never supposed to be anything exept a framing device for the lore of the show. It's only because it's Christian, and thus meaningful to the western world, that so much emphasis is placed on it by both fans and non-fans. People often draw the "Gainax admitted the religious symbolism holds no real meaning" card as being a fault of the show, but it's just them reading too much into it.

And that's why you're worthy to be my eternal rival =). That is exactly my point, you just explained it better. Christian symbolism has no resonance with the Japanese cultural consciousness, because a whopping 2% of Japan is Christian (Thanks, CIA World Fact Book!). It's really not much more than a leitmotif (although I think there was some actual Jewish symbols in End of Eva, but I've only seen it once so I'd have to watch it again so if that's really the case).

For example, suppose instead of Angels the alien monsters were called Genies, and they were attacking NERV attempting to claim a giant black meteorite kept in the Terminal Dogma. Well damn, now they're just throwing in a bunch of pointless Islamic religious symbolism...that you didn't even know was there.

It's not like the names are totally devoid of anything - there is an inherent weightiness to words like 'Angel' and 'Adam'. They're infused with a history which can reflect on the importance of the situation or object. It's cheap, but it works. After all, can you think of a more badass name for a trio of super computers than Casper, Balthasar, and Melchior?

As for Jewish imagery, the Tree of Life diagram you see in the opening of the series and in EoE is from Kabbalah.

The only real meaningful religious subtext the series has is that of the story of Job, i.e. random individual is choosen by the powers that be and gets physically and mentally tortured to test his faith. In NGE's case, faith in ones self.

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

hmm...Ergo Proxy is a serious and strange anime.. and so is Witch Hunter Robin... Black Lagoon is totally fucking awesome and mostly serious too. all the series i listed I've only watched dubbed in english since I never watch anime that's subtitled, but there'all really good even if you wanna watch it in sub form