Korra: Beginings - What did you guys think?

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dantoddd

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I just got to watch the new Legend of Korra episode. It was awesome. quite possibly the best avatar episode yet. What really sold me was the art direction. woodblock art style makes bending look surreal. Its also interesting where the show will go from here on. We can potentially see a dark avatar emerging.

What are your views on the new episode
 

SajuukKhar

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I thought it was actually a pretty good two episodes.

It does quite literally contradict everything we are told in Avatar the Last Airbender about how human got bending powers, but it was a goo enough of a retcon that I am willing to put the other stories behind as folklore/lost history in a pleasant manner.
 

Saltyk

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Sep 12, 2010
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I liked them. Already watched it twice. I loved the art style. It reminded me of the art style that the original had whenever they told of past events, like the Cave of Two Lovers story.

I like Wan as a character and there were some nice subtle touches, like the Air Nomad tattoos. I had originally expected he was going to be an Air Bender, then as the episode started I figured an Earth Bender based on the city and design, but him being a Fire Bender was nice and unexpected.

And despite what some claim, it doesn't contradict anything. Most of what we heard were legends. Likely incorrectly remembered stories of how people developed the skills better or even relearned the secrets of bending. We saw Wan learn to improve his Fire Bending from a white dragon, for example. The Sun Warriors likely learned in a similar fashion.
 

TheYellowCellPhone

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I really liked the element animations. Fire, air, and water all looked so beautifully oriental instead of looking cartoonish or out of place.

Otherwise, I didn't really like the animation change. Characters looked jittery when they moved, as though the animation was about 75% completed and then they shipped it without going over the details. The lion turtles, new artstyle or not, were almost laughable in how they ended up looking and animating, and I thought the lion turtles were way too... unrefined. Were they spirits, why did they have authority over Raava, why were they so quick to give bending powers to others?

It was great. I love worlds where mortals and immortals interact on a regular basis and what ridiculous circumstances can come from it.

I wonder implications this episode puts on the rest of the season. Obviously that humanoid lemur spirit is going return later, obviously Korra is going to have to fight Vaatu (preferably in the spirit world), but what of it? I doubt this was only a (well-needed) explanation of some of Avatar's lore. I just hope Raava isn't some benevolent force that can always communicate to Korra and does all of the plot progression for her, that'd be boring.

I was also hoping for more information on some of the other avatars (like Aang after the events of The Last Airbender cough cough).
 

katsabas

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SajuukKhar said:
I thought it was actually a pretty good two episodes.

It does quite literally contradict everything we are told in Avatar the Last Airbender about how human got bending powers, but it was a goo enough of a retcon that I am willing to put the other stories behind as folklore/lost history in a pleasant manner.
Actually, I didn't think it was a retcon when it comes to the bending. The turtles gave Wan the power and the animals (like the dragon in the episode) taught him how to use it. It did leave something out though. Since the turtles said noone would receive bending powers from them again, it still has to be explained how the single-element benders happened.

All in all, loved both episodes. And again, you can see things coming in full circle. Wan was tricked to release Vaatu the same way Korra was tricked by her uncle to open the southern portal so that the Harmonic Convergence can take place.
 

Smiley Face

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For a good part of the season so far, I've noticed a disparity in the quality of the animation - sometimes it's clunkier than the first season, the faces aren't as expressive, the mouths don't sync up with the words, etc. - and every now and again, they break out the really good animators, for a fight scene or a close up. This last episode explains most of that, because it's clear that a LOT of work went into this.

The art style change was quite interesting, fashioning it after old-style Japanese art, I think it certainly paid off. The dialogue was a little simplistic at times, but because it's ultimately a kind of creation myth, that's excusable.

I enjoyed it, I thought it was well done, but ultimately I wish that maybe a little less had been spent on the animation for these episodes so that we could have enjoyed more expressive characters in the past 6 episodes to get us more anticipatory for this - although, Episode 6 was very well done; well done enough that I really just want to get back to what's going on there.
 

jamail77

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SajuukKhar said:
It does quite literally contradict everything we are told in Avatar the Last Airbender about how human got bending powers, but it was a goo enough of a retcon that I am willing to put the other stories behind as folklore/lost history in a pleasant manner.
I know others have already said this, but it doesn't contradict anything. First off, the old stories in the last series were about the "original benders" and not all of the four types of benders were confirmed to have learned from the originals. Only earthbenders and waterbenders had confirmations and yeah firebenders sort of but only the Sun Warriors as far as we know. I don't think they were necessarily false legends either, a lot of the other folklore was well-established and confirmed to some degree later in the old series. Who's to say after the Lion Turtles refused to give more bending that others who had the ability inside them (probably inherited from people who kept their Lion Turtle given bending) didn't realize it instinctively and studied the originals? Who's to say there wasn't a time before where bending was learned then forgotten then relearned after the events of "The Beginnings"? Despite their misgivings and the problems they have writing on their own without the input of their team (popular fan rumor that they're like the George Lucas of cartoons, great visionaries, but best working with a team that can control or supplement them rather than given full control especially of writing) in regards to Korra's character development, I don't think they'd forget such things and cast them off to the wayside like that.


TheYellowCellPhone said:
I really liked the element animations. Fire, air, and water all looked so beautifully oriental instead of looking cartoonish or out of place.

Otherwise, I didn't really like the animation change. [snip] I thought the lion turtles were way too... unrefined. Were they spirits, why did they have authority over Raava, why were they so quick to give bending powers to others?

I doubt this was only a (well-needed) explanation of some of Avatar's lore. I just hope Raava isn't some benevolent force that can always communicate to Korra and does all of the plot progression for her, that'd be boring.
This is a very interesting comment considering the animation studio behind these two episodes are the original studio behind Book One and considered the superior studio (Studio Mir, Korean studio). Long story short there was a conflict between the American team and the two different animated studios involved. Studio Mir was so exhausted from the process and got an offer to do Boondocks at that moment. After a meeting they decided to go with Boondocks, Studio Pierrot (Japanese) animated the majority of Korra episodes, and Studio Mir came back for a few. Before people even knew who animated which episodes, it was clear people thought the Studio Mir episodes looked better, which is why initially there were so many complaints about why the animation went up and down in quality. I think this is why it took so long for Book 2 to come. The excuses were suspicious to me, it was long even considering the trickiness of animation business; I had a feeling there were problems coming up like this. It's a LITTLE more complicated than that, but there's a basic explanation. If you want to know more go here [http://avatarthelegendofkorraonline.com/which-studio-animated-book-2-of-the-legend-of-korra-mir-or-pierrot-we-have-an-answer/2907/].

But yeah, interesting to hear someone who had trouble with this special considering the relative lackluster work present in Studio Pierrot episodes. It might have just been the nature of that particular type of animation that makes you think that rather than actual problems. Or maybe I should watch it again and look more closely. I was pretty tired when I saw this special and if animation overall reaches a certain threshold of good I'm less likely to complain or actively look for problems. This is especially true when I'm too tired or too willing to watch mindlessly to look for problems.

As for your Lion Turtle dilemma, it did not seem like they had authority over Raava at all to me. She was in a weak position, not to mention she was actually weaker physically/spiritually/whatever term is appropriate here and the Lion Turtle made a judgment that she had to follow out of obligation for the safety of the world. At worst, they might be on par with each other in terms of wisdom or authority over matters or authority or wisdom over one another, if you ask me anyway.

It also seemed like they were so willing to hand bending over because they were one of the few creatures that understood humanity and gave them the benefit of the doubt. At that point in time of humanity's development, it must have really seemed like they needed the help. After all, all the food and resources were in the Spirit Wilds. There was nobody else there for humanity, humanity believed they needed the protection, it just makes sense to me.

I thought it was obvious they weren't spirits: They continued to live in the physical world after Wan ushered the spirits back into the spirit world. That could be some moral obligation and refusal I suppose, but I'm going with the idea that they're physical creatures...that and the Avatar wiki says they are. Haha

Smiley Face said:
I enjoyed it, I thought it was well done, but ultimately I wish that maybe a little less had been spent on the animation for these episodes so that we could have enjoyed more expressive characters in the past 6 episodes to get us more anticipatory for this - although, Episode 6 was very well done; well done enough that I really just want to get back to what's going on there.
That's not what happened. See my above response in this post. They're not foolish enough to sacrifice overall quality like that; they're known for not being that foolish.

Personally, I am hoping Korra connects to Raava and Raava explains how throughout the lifetimes and with so many Avatars connection to her and knowledge of her has faded to the point she is mostly spiritual energy and very minor, subtle guidance primarily in the Avatar State. She is often found out in her fullest extent fully by an Avatar after the death of that Avatar; knowing they are an incarnation of a world spirit is not enough to go on to know it's actually a fully sentient female personification being rather than something more broad and grand. I am kind of hoping Korra gets berated at this point and Raava says something along the likes of how she was foolish, for the first time ever, due to the strange and very uncertain nature of these recent conflicts, to make it so Korra could have easy access to the Avatar State and allowed her to carry on never bothering or learning from what happened before to any important degree. It'd be nice to get an explanation for all of that and to find out why Korra has been allowed to continue acting the way she acts. It'd make everything else worth it.

I hate the people who try to excuse it as the instability of being a teenager or who try to reason that she made the apparent right call and we see things as an audience that she and other characters cannot possibly see when, for the most part, they very much can see it in front of their faces. I was a teenager once too (admittedly, not a girl) and knew/know a lot of teenagers. This is just too unbelievable and even if it was believable it's not interesting or good to watch in the form of a main character with her personality. It just doesn't work.

This episode summed up why I still watch The Legend of Korra: She was barely in it and so there was no bad character development or choices for me to complain about, which let the good, even great, elements of this show shine through. I like Korra's character overall. I just wish she'd get over herself already!
 

bliebblob

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Sep 9, 2009
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Loved it. But I'm still confused about where normal benders (as in: not the avatar) came from. Did I miss that part?
 

Saltyk

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Sep 12, 2010
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bliebblob said:
Loved it. But I'm still confused about where normal benders (as in: not the avatar) came from. Did I miss that part?
My best guess is that the benders are either descendants of those who received the power of the elements from the lion-turtles or they learned how to bend on their own. Possibly due to them forming groups with others like them and developing the skills by learning from animals and the moon. Either is possible.
 

The Funslinger

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katsabas said:
SajuukKhar said:
I thought it was actually a pretty good two episodes.

It does quite literally contradict everything we are told in Avatar the Last Airbender about how human got bending powers, but it was a goo enough of a retcon that I am willing to put the other stories behind as folklore/lost history in a pleasant manner.
Actually, I didn't think it was a retcon when it comes to the bending. The turtles gave Wan the power and the animals (like the dragon in the episode) taught him how to use it. It did leave something out though. Since the turtles said noone would receive bending powers from them again, it still has to be explained how the single-element benders happened.
Actually, the turtles said their time protecting humanity was over. Meaning the humans were no longer living in the great cities on their backs. They likely did what the fire city did, and left, taking the element with them as a parting gift.

OT: I really liked it. I'm hoping it's signaling some character development in Korra that sticks.
 

jamail77

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Binnsyboy said:
OT: I really liked it. I'm hoping it's signaling some character development in Korra that sticks.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS: Badly needed
 

Scarim Coral

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I thought the animation/ art stlye was fantastic that I can overlook the flaw in it (it kind of like Asian painting come to life in some parts).

I actually felt sorry for Wan in that what he was striving for (peace for both human and spirit alike) for something he cannot achieve in his lifetime and it took alot more to do so (it may end with Korra time)

Honestly the plothole I am more concern with is how the heck did that elder Fire monk knew about the harmonic convergence seeing how the legend of Wan was at best a folklore?

Also wanna bet that Unalaq is in some way connected to Vaatu like he was the one who broke Vaatu out of his imprisionment or maybe he is possess/ bonded by him in a similar way with Raava is bonded to the Avatar?

Also I am expecting the final battle will be the entire past Avatars are with Korra as they all gang up on Vaatu!!!
 

SajuukKhar

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katsabas said:
Actually, I didn't think it was a retcon when it comes to the bending.
jamail77 said:
I know others have already said this, but it doesn't contradict anything.
It actually does retcon it.

We were told that humans first learned bending via the flying bison, the dragons, the moon, and the mole things. However, we learn in beginning that the first benders got their powers from the lion turtles.

Now, while the humans may have learned to master thier elements by watching the animals, that doesn't change the fact that how they first got bending has changed.

Furthermore, the lion turtle in the original series said that before peopl started bending elements, they energybent, and yet, in beginnings, we see ZERO energybenders.

Another retcon.
 

jamail77

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Scarim Coral said:
Honestly the plothole I am more concern with is how the heck did that elder Fire monk knew about the harmonic convergence seeing how the legend of Wan was at best a folklore?
That's not what a plot hole is. She is a Fire Nation monk:

1) They are already more connected to spiritual matters and study up on them more regardless of folklore status (this was more than folklore since Wan's statue is actually found by Jinora in an older episode while at one of the Air Temples)
2) Who's to say she couldn't sense or get an idea of what was going on while she was examining Korra, both before and after putting her in the spirit water
3) "A plot hole, or plothole, a play on the word "pothole," is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot sometimes even contradicting itself". Nothing was established regarding this, there was no blatant thing contradicted, it's just left out and it's not crucial to the story as a whole. It's just a thing you're curious about and that irked you.
4) It's also possible the scene was abusing cinematic time and Korra told the monk about her experience off-screen after she had recovered.
 

jamail77

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SajuukKhar said:
jamail77 said:
I know others have already said this, but it doesn't contradict anything.
It actually does retcon it.

We were told that humans first learned bending via the flying bison, the dragons, the moon, and the mole things. However, we learn in beginning that the first benders got their powers from the lion turtles.

Now, while the humans may have learned to master thier elements by watching the animals, that doesn't change the fact that how they first got bending has changed.

Furthermore, the lion turtle in the original series said that before peopl started bending elements, they energybent, and yet, in beginnings, we see ZERO energybenders.

Another retcon.
That's still not a retcon; that's your rationalization for why it must be a retcon. We were NEVER told airbenders or firebenders learned from the flying bison and the dragons respectively, we were told they were the original airbenders and firebenders and that maybe the Sun Warriors learned from the dragons and nothing more. Only the other two types of elemental benders were confirmed. This is clearly stated and I said that in my post. I feel like you skipped most of it, fair enough as it is rather long. Plus, I already said it is still possible the art of bending was forgotten and those with the trait passed on from the Lion Turtles RELEARNED it from the "original bender creatures" like the dragons. Very few people would know of the story we see in "The Beginnings", in fact, few do which is made clear in the episode. It's also possible they knew bending before the events we see and forgot then got it back from the Lion Turtles. Without elaboration you're just speculating.

Other people have already stated it was possible these were false legends, which I, myself, don't believe in honestly.

The Lion Turtle never said people energybent, he said before the Avatar "We (which could very easily mean Lion Turtles only especially since Tenzin said only the Avatar has ever possessed the power in terms of humans) bent the energy within ourselves". The Lion Turtles were very clearly energybending to give humans elemental bending by the way.
 

Ciartan

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These two episodes were without a doubt, the best episodes ive ever seen of any animated show ever.
It was stunningly beautiful, the music, the art, the story, the characters, everything was absolutely perfect.
If the next episodes are even half as good as these two were, its gonna be freaking awesome.
 

Drago-Morph

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You know, this season so far has been of pretty mixed quality. Most of it was beyond fantastic, the (non-Korra) character moments were absolutely beautiful, and it's really fleshed out the world. The shortcomings were isolated, but they were in the most crucial parts of the show: Korra's been a massive shithead all season (this coming from a guy who loved her character in season one), and the really important plot bits have all felt rushed. But these two episodes here . . . holy crap. Just wow. They're some of the best storytelling I've ever seen.

And no, I'm not just saying that because Wan was Aladdin, if Aladdin could breathe fire.
 

Abomination

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They were great episodes and really helped establish the universe's origins. A lot of stuff managed to make more sense and I couldn't find any contradictions. I could see how this knowledge would be lost as well...

My only question is how did the SECOND avatar know what their purpose would be? Or had a Cult of the Avatar been established or something during Wan's tenure?