Kylo Ren Goes on Undercover Boss to See What People Really Think of Him

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Scow2

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Gethsemani said:
Diablo1099 said:
Kylo Ken got a lot of shit for being "Emo" and whatnot, but I actually rather like what they were doing with him, bit more interesting then just making him a carbon copy of Vader.
Kylo Ren is what Anakin should have been had Lucas not messed up the writing of Anakin entirely. With Kylo Ren you can believe that this impulsive, wroth young man really is falling to the dark side and you can clearly see why, whereas Anakin mostly whined and whined and whined and then he killed some Tusken for some reason, then he got good but had a life crisis due to vivid dreams and totally decided to slaughter some kids. Had Anakin had Kylo's characterization (and Christiansen even half of Driver's acting chops), it would have been a great arc from angry, impulsive padawan to most terrifying person in the galaxy. Let's hope Kylo Ren gets the arc that Anakin should have had.
I disagree, kind of. Kylo Ren and Anakin are somewhat opposite, though both have anger and impulse management issues. Anakin was someone who was always trying his hardest to be the person the universe expected him to be, the One True Hero and Savior of The Force, and he tried his best to act the part, but couldn't take the strain all that well because he was ALSO ambitious, impulsive, and somewhat high-strung (But knew he shouldn't be), and eventually snapped. Hayden Christenson was playing a character who was also playing a character - the role actually required somewhat 'wooden' acting because of that.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Scow2 said:
I disagree, kind of. Kylo Ren and Anakin are somewhat opposite, though both have anger and impulse management issues. Anakin was someone who was always trying his hardest to be the person the universe expected him to be, the One True Hero and Savior of The Force, and he tried his best to act the part, but couldn't take the strain all that well because he was ALSO ambitious, impulsive, and somewhat high-strung (But knew he shouldn't be), and eventually snapped. Hayden Christenson was playing a character who was also playing a character - the role actually required somewhat 'wooden' acting because of that.
I sort of like your explanation and kind of agree with what you are saying, at least in that I think your interpretation of Anakin is totally valid. My problem stems from what I perceive is bad writing for the character. My main gripe, as noted by Rod Hilton [http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/] when discussing his "Machete viewing order", is that Episode 1 is so very different in how it portrays Anakin when compared to 2 and 3. We are expected to believe that this cheery, positive, bright and considerate kid, who has obviously been instilled with very clear and good morals from his angelic mother suddenly is a poster boy for all delinquent teenage boys ever in the next movie. How that happened is never explained and Lucas does a terrible job of giving Anakin a proper fall from grace arc, instead we constantly see him acting like a greatly exaggerated caricature of James Dean, Rebel Kid. He keeps bitching at everything, he keeps perving on Padm? (and is only saved by writer fiat in that she can't be creeped out by him) and generally just acts in such an immature manner that you have to wonder how any of the Jedis saw it fit to let him be anywhere but in Jedi Kindergarten/Therapy.

This is further exacerbated by his inconsistent characterization in Episode 3. Is he an anger-filled, impulsive person without direction or is he fairly stable, loving husband and considerate best friend? I get that Lucas wants us to see the goodness in him, thus setting up Vader's redemption in Episode VI, but both Lucas writing and Christansen's acting are not good enough for that and instead we get an almost schizophrenic characterization where Anakin seems to switch between "Good Anakin" and "Bad Anakin" from scene to scene with no apparent connection between the two.

Anyway, this turned out rantier then I liked. My stance is that Kylo's arc is much cleaner and much better presented. There are exactly two scenes in which we see his inner conflict (one of them being his defining moment late in the movie) and they manage to convey perfectly what kind of person Kylo is and what his motivations are. This is due to both better writing on the part of Abrams/Kasdan et al. and thanks to Driver being an excellent actor.
 

Scow2

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Gethsemani said:
Scow2 said:
I disagree, kind of. Kylo Ren and Anakin are somewhat opposite, though both have anger and impulse management issues. Anakin was someone who was always trying his hardest to be the person the universe expected him to be, the One True Hero and Savior of The Force, and he tried his best to act the part, but couldn't take the strain all that well because he was ALSO ambitious, impulsive, and somewhat high-strung (But knew he shouldn't be), and eventually snapped. Hayden Christenson was playing a character who was also playing a character - the role actually required somewhat 'wooden' acting because of that.
I sort of like your explanation and kind of agree with what you are saying, at least in that I think your interpretation of Anakin is totally valid. My problem stems from what I perceive is bad writing for the character.
Yeah, there are a lot of problems with the way Lucas wrote him. I saw what he was trying to do... but, like the prequels themselves, it was probably too much to get across. To me, Anakin's defining character moment was when he confided to Padme "I'm not the Jedi I should be - I want more, and I know I shouldn't", reinforced with the shot of frustration after Obi-Wan brushed his concerns off. I absolutely hated his "Rise, Lord Vader" scene - a bit more angst/emotional turmoil over realizing he just crossed the Moral Event Horizon and sided with the Sith over Jedi would have been better appreciated. Instead, Anakin went straight from a believable guy going bad to stark raving lunatic.

Also - something I find nice is that his strong-headed impulsiveness "My way is what's best!" is displayed throughout the trilogy. A shame the rest of him couldn't be so consistent.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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And thus Disney continues to ensure no one can take The Imperial Remnant seriously as a threat.

Lost their superweapon.

Stormtrooper leader dropped into garbage.

Snoke is just useless and "mysterious" (Seriously, where the hell was this guy? Palpatine would NOT put up with competition.)

Ren lost to an ex Stormtrooper and a Greenhorn Jedi.

And now this.

Our villains are complete Jobbers. I would honestly be more scared of Team Rocket than any of these losers. Someone send in Darth Bane's ghost or Darth Krayt and his crew or any number of Star Wars villains who actually know what the hell they're doing!
 

Extra-Ordinary

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Two moments that I always lose it at. I mean, the whole thing's funny but still.

The speed at which he "found" his lightsaber, you could hear that thing activate before he was even off-screen.
"Look I found Kylo-Ren's lightsaber, look at it UP CLOSE."

And the mind reading.
"I see what's in your mind.
It.
Is.
STUPID!"
Of all the things he as gonna say, I wasn't expecting "stupid", that's good.

I like this sketch. I don't watch a ton of SNL, just whatever the internet filters out to be really good. I always enjoy it whenever actors play their own characters in parodies. Anybody who's willing to laugh at themselves is pretty cool.
 

Barbas

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Oh, SNL. I was wondering what was wrong with that sketch; no wonder it didn't seem all that funny. Shame about the casting for that role. Where did Adam Driver come from and when is he going back?
 

Veylon

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Metalix Knightmare said:
Someone send in Darth Bane's ghost or Darth Krayt and his crew or any number of Star Wars villains who actually know what the hell they're doing!
Darth Bane got kidnapped by a princess and had to be rescued. I'm not sure whether that's a step up or a step down.

Metalix Knightmare said:
Snoke is just useless and "mysterious" (Seriously, where the hell was this guy? Palpatine would NOT put up with competition.)
He was in the same place all those five or six dozen Jedi who survived the purge were. They just sort of hung out together.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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Veylon said:
Metalix Knightmare said:
Someone send in Darth Bane's ghost or Darth Krayt and his crew or any number of Star Wars villains who actually know what the hell they're doing!
Darth Bane got kidnapped by a princess and had to be rescued. I'm not sure whether that's a step up or a step down.
A bit of a step down, but considering everything else Bane managed, and how hardcore princesses can be in Star Wars, it's not much of one.