Ladies, how about you?
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Well, the idea of a male protagonist to fulfill male power fantasy is the driving force behind dark-haired, ripped white boys, so it makes sense women would want the same.Mylinkay Asdara said:
I mostly comment here because I find this interesting in light of the notion of "male as default," and the notion that "others" are expected by traditional logic to just go with the flow. This also works with other scenarios: white as default, straight as default, etc. This attitude did seem to be accurate for many, many years, and it appears to be changing now. It fascinates me, because I'm rather used to people just kind of....Going along with it.
We've had games in the past with multiple characters with stories, so I don't see why these have to be mutually exclusive. Hell, most aspects of a "create an avatar" deal don't change anything story specific, so you could still have the same story with a fleshed out past, only changing the pronouns. Most of the time, gender doesn't inform character very strongly. It might, but it doesn't have to. And if you can do something like Alien with no specific genders in mind, then why would writing a game be different?MetalMagpie said:
Michael Westen agrees.A Weakgeek said:
(Okay, I couldn't find an image of Donovan in a pink shirt easily, but he's awesome so whatever)
Not really, I'd like to see a stronger representation of female protagonists for sure, but most of my MMO characters are male mostly because the anorexic bints I see in most representations of 'the girl' or 'deviation from norm' have extreme armor alterations or don't reflect a body type I see as 'hardened hero'.
In WoW I have Tauren female characters. And a male blood elf because that racial as a healer is too goddamn useful. I got to give WoW some props there is a body type for nearly most ladies in it even if they are race locked, it's the men who could use a bit more diversity (Them chests srsly)
In Tera I went male high elf mostly because they actually looked almost like normal women if you give them long hair. With small breasts mind, but I could dig it. The games aesthetics didn't make me want to touch any of the girls.
Skyrim, I was all too happy to play a female, mostly because you ARE your avatar and there were options to have a female who looked like she'd be a world weary shield maiden in a fantasy. Awesome.
Point is I don't think there's a fair representation for female gamers to bite into but it's still the case in this genre that we are at most a quarter of the demographic. We're not as profitable. We can only make ourselves so but introducing our siblings, friends, daughters and such to the medium in positive ways (Try fairly neutral stuff like Spyro, Sonic, Rayman or well made cartoony games) and by entering into the industry ourselves.
I like games. I like playing games with male protagonists (Note all the cartoony ones I listed above are male) but there does need some building work on the other side of the fence and one day I intend to contribute towards it. But I don't think there needs to be any LESSENING of what IS on offer from the male perspective. I don't feel invested in power fantasies like gears of war or such but that's fine. They exist, and some women even enjoy playing them too (Might be to appease a boyfriend but I'm not judging) but yes there does need to be some stepping up from our end and it will come to be with time. Many of us agree, and want to do something about it but are not in a position to convince the money givers that we're as profitable a market to throw a little pandering. As proven with MLP if you can make the characters charming enough, anyone can enjoy it. It's just a little risky to get started.
In WoW I have Tauren female characters. And a male blood elf because that racial as a healer is too goddamn useful. I got to give WoW some props there is a body type for nearly most ladies in it even if they are race locked, it's the men who could use a bit more diversity (Them chests srsly)
In Tera I went male high elf mostly because they actually looked almost like normal women if you give them long hair. With small breasts mind, but I could dig it. The games aesthetics didn't make me want to touch any of the girls.
Skyrim, I was all too happy to play a female, mostly because you ARE your avatar and there were options to have a female who looked like she'd be a world weary shield maiden in a fantasy. Awesome.
Point is I don't think there's a fair representation for female gamers to bite into but it's still the case in this genre that we are at most a quarter of the demographic. We're not as profitable. We can only make ourselves so but introducing our siblings, friends, daughters and such to the medium in positive ways (Try fairly neutral stuff like Spyro, Sonic, Rayman or well made cartoony games) and by entering into the industry ourselves.
I like games. I like playing games with male protagonists (Note all the cartoony ones I listed above are male) but there does need some building work on the other side of the fence and one day I intend to contribute towards it. But I don't think there needs to be any LESSENING of what IS on offer from the male perspective. I don't feel invested in power fantasies like gears of war or such but that's fine. They exist, and some women even enjoy playing them too (Might be to appease a boyfriend but I'm not judging) but yes there does need to be some stepping up from our end and it will come to be with time. Many of us agree, and want to do something about it but are not in a position to convince the money givers that we're as profitable a market to throw a little pandering. As proven with MLP if you can make the characters charming enough, anyone can enjoy it. It's just a little risky to get started.
I think it just has to do with what you're looking for in a gaming experience and how you play your games. Since video gaming is an interactive medium I think the need for you to be able to project yourself onto the player is a lot stronger for some people than if you were doing someone non-interactive, like, reading a book or watching a movie. There really isn't anything wrong with that, it's just unfortunate the market doesn't cater to you.
Personally, I've never had a problem relating to male protagonists simply because they were male, which might be because I'm pretty chill in regards to my gender identity and have some fairly masculine traits, but I think it has more to do with the fact that I rarely play stories to be "myself" because chances are if I was in most of those situations I'd just get stabbed and cry a lot.
I've had issues relating to poorly written male and female protagonists, but that is an entirely different beast.
Personally, I've never had a problem relating to male protagonists simply because they were male, which might be because I'm pretty chill in regards to my gender identity and have some fairly masculine traits, but I think it has more to do with the fact that I rarely play stories to be "myself" because chances are if I was in most of those situations I'd just get stabbed and cry a lot.
I've had issues relating to poorly written male and female protagonists, but that is an entirely different beast.
As a man that finds it hard to enjoy a game with a female protagonist I can't begin to imagine how much it must suck for you, OP.
For me, playing a game is about projecting myself onto the player-character, and while I find it hard to put myself in the mindset of a trigger happy meathead inside three tonnes of space armour, I can at least play the character the way I want and put my personality across that way. Playing as a female character I just find it hard to engage with them and lose interest pretty quickly.
There are exceptions to this though, a game that sets out to tell a specific story is more about immersion than projection, for me; I'd have loved Shadow of the Colossus just as much if I was playing as a man or a woman because it was less about putting myself in the game and more about being part of the character's own journey.
For me, playing a game is about projecting myself onto the player-character, and while I find it hard to put myself in the mindset of a trigger happy meathead inside three tonnes of space armour, I can at least play the character the way I want and put my personality across that way. Playing as a female character I just find it hard to engage with them and lose interest pretty quickly.
There are exceptions to this though, a game that sets out to tell a specific story is more about immersion than projection, for me; I'd have loved Shadow of the Colossus just as much if I was playing as a man or a woman because it was less about putting myself in the game and more about being part of the character's own journey.
I think I'm probably more likely to play a game that lets me choose my character's gender but I don't think it's BECAUSE I'm allowed to choose. I think that it is mostly due to the style of games which make you able to choose, they are mostly story-heavy RPGs which are what appeals to me most as a player. However, as a female, I will play a game with a male protagonist if it is compelling to me. I love Halo and Assassin's Creed games for example (except III), but I think there is always a small part of me who will prefer to play a woman if possible. This was especially true when I was younger and there were fewer games that showed women at all. I felt drawn toward the Tomb Raider games because Lara was a girl and she was badass, making her an ideal role model in my young mind, but I think that was more of a function of being young and wanting someone to identify with.
I think which gender you choose when you have the choice comes a lot from the way you play. I like to role play the character and I guess I don't think I'm creative enough to play a male character well. I never choose to be a man in DnD either.
I think which gender you choose when you have the choice comes a lot from the way you play. I like to role play the character and I guess I don't think I'm creative enough to play a male character well. I never choose to be a man in DnD either.
Well there you go being ridiculous again. You asked for my opinion and me calling you ridiculous is my opinion, don't try to pull that childish shit where you passive aggressively tell me to fuck off just because you feel hurt by the truth. For someone that's 31 I would have thought that would be below you.Mylinkay Asdara said:
You wanted to know how the desire to play a game, any game, is affected by the gender of the PC and that you gravitate more towards RPGs. Most RPGs have character customisation and when they don't it's usually not an RPG, just a game with "RPG elements" as they love to call them. I've never played The Witcher so I can hardly determine how that fits into it all but I don't see many RPGs where you can't even choose your own gender.
I seriously don't see why gender must play such a large role in video games, so large it decides whether you will or won't buy a game. Creating an all new character who's appearance fits the original character's personality is no easy feat and isn't as simple as throwing a mesh together in a day and then texturing it the next. Character design is important and money and time adding another gender in shouldn't be wasted when it's not pivotal to the gameplay. Obviously in games where, as you said, a key part is creating yourself this is shitty work on behalf of the developers since they've just destroyed their gameplay for some of their gamers.
That's silly and utterly intolerant.
Geralt is the central character of the Witcher. You can't just retcon a female heroine into it. Respect the lore. Enjoy the trip. Cherish the good moments. Don't let ideology turn you into an ever-suffering, intolerant opinionated executioner of all things male before you even allow yourself to judge on content and delivery of anything. Life is short. Hate is easy, but usually not very fulfilling. Just sayin'.
Yes, if I have the choice, I'll normally go for a female toon first. One that even looks like me. Dark Souls rocks. Then, if I like the game enough, I'll create more toons. I want the brawlin' brute. Big and strong, wielding mountains, crushing Gods. I want the effeminate leptosome or scruffy old bearded guy throwing fire and ice and thunderbolts at enemies. I want characters I can relate to, not just narcissistic clones of myself in every game I touch. That would be sort of a reverse Midas, and I didn't even enjoy that Slim Shady video more than, what, four and a half times.
There are very few moments where this works, repeatedly. I still haven't grown tired of Malkovich Malkovich. We've had intercourse to that, on infinite loop. Thank God for two button presses A>B loops.
Geralt is the central character of the Witcher. You can't just retcon a female heroine into it. Respect the lore. Enjoy the trip. Cherish the good moments. Don't let ideology turn you into an ever-suffering, intolerant opinionated executioner of all things male before you even allow yourself to judge on content and delivery of anything. Life is short. Hate is easy, but usually not very fulfilling. Just sayin'.
Yes, if I have the choice, I'll normally go for a female toon first. One that even looks like me. Dark Souls rocks. Then, if I like the game enough, I'll create more toons. I want the brawlin' brute. Big and strong, wielding mountains, crushing Gods. I want the effeminate leptosome or scruffy old bearded guy throwing fire and ice and thunderbolts at enemies. I want characters I can relate to, not just narcissistic clones of myself in every game I touch. That would be sort of a reverse Midas, and I didn't even enjoy that Slim Shady video more than, what, four and a half times.
There are very few moments where this works, repeatedly. I still haven't grown tired of Malkovich Malkovich. We've had intercourse to that, on infinite loop. Thank God for two button presses A>B loops.
I'm female and I vastly prefer playing games where I am able to play as my own gender.
I guess it partially comes down to immersion, and partially comes down to vanity. I'd just rather look at a female character than a male one.
That being said, I'm not the type to completely dismiss a game if the only protagonist available is male.. I'll just be less enthusiastic about it from the get-go.
I guess it partially comes down to immersion, and partially comes down to vanity. I'd just rather look at a female character than a male one.
That being said, I'm not the type to completely dismiss a game if the only protagonist available is male.. I'll just be less enthusiastic about it from the get-go.
Wow. Jaded huh? I assure you, when I want to tell someone to f-off I'm good with saying it outright. It was my polite way of indicating that maybe you should either pay attention to what I'm actually saying and asking rather than assuming this is some other thread - and I DO know there are a LOT of them right now, so I have some understanding for the conclusion jump, really. Or, conversely, cease discussion with me - I'm not a fan of talking to people I find ridiculous, I'm not sure about yourself, maybe I should not have presumed. Also, at the ripe age of almost 31 (my birthday is next month), I'd rather nip a flame war in the bud because life is too short for message board trolls - WHICH I AM NOT ASSUMING YOU ARE, but you have to admit there are plenty out there to be fending off.The Unworthy Gentleman said:
Let me read the rest of your post now. Okay: No, that is not what I wanted to know. What I wanted to know was if other ladies are feeling this, why they are feeling it, when it started, and how I might find a road back to enjoying a wider range of games as I used to. This is not a microcosm to macrocosm thing, my thread is mostly about me for me. What people make it about for them is what they'll do, but for me, it's about my own feelings and how I came here - because I don't know and I'd like to. If you don't see why gender matters in games it seems very unlikely that you'll be helpful to my quest here. It's a free board, so carry on, but I'm looking for my own answer and you don't seem to have it.
I... don't want to make the Witcher guy a lady. I was just saying that I passed on the game because I found it unappealing and as I thought of why one of the most prominent reasons was that I didn't want to sign up for 50+ hours of immersion into a guy with that personality. That's all. Nothing against the game or those who are about it - I hear it's really well done. That's why I'm bothered that a single factor turned me off like that and now I'm trying to figure out why and if I can fix it how to do that.Headdrivehardscrew said:
Not really, well at least not consciously.
My preference is for games with a story, I get bored with open world sandbox RPGs. Bethesda RPGs are a good example (note only played Fallout 3 and Oblivion and still haven't completed the main mission in either).
When I play any game with character customization my first play through is always female and essentially me. Making the choices I think, or would like to think that, I'd make in that situation.
I think having a female lead makes me more excited that I otherwise would be for a game. I'm really excited to get my hands on the new Tomb Raider and have been avoiding any games stores because I can't afford $60 right now and might not be able to resist buying it.
My preference is for games with a story, I get bored with open world sandbox RPGs. Bethesda RPGs are a good example (note only played Fallout 3 and Oblivion and still haven't completed the main mission in either).
When I play any game with character customization my first play through is always female and essentially me. Making the choices I think, or would like to think that, I'd make in that situation.
I think having a female lead makes me more excited that I otherwise would be for a game. I'm really excited to get my hands on the new Tomb Raider and have been avoiding any games stores because I can't afford $60 right now and might not be able to resist buying it.
If it is a modern game that has the technical capacity and it wants me to be apart of the narrative then I do like to play as my own gender as part of the RP experience. However, if it is just a hack/n/slash adventure, fps, or other genre that relies on the most basic of narrative frameworks as a vehicle to get you to the gameplay then I don't really care about the story or the gender because it is superfluous. See: Zelda, Mario, GoW, the Witcher etc etc. I couldn't care less about the story and I just click through it rapidly to get to the adventure which is kinda the point. I'm the girl who holds "Y" to skip all those boring unnecessary cut-scenes.
I always wonder why developers bother with a tacked on story... imho unless you build a game from the ground up with narrative storytelling in mind it usually comes off as an afterthought. Back to the Future, Walking Dead, Spec Ops: the Line, the first two Mass Effect's, some JRPG's, Kotor, Dragon Age (maybe) are games in which the narrative is integral to the experience. You need to care about the characters and their journey. Playing as my own gender is one way or tool for the developers to draw me into the experience... among others like game design, controls, sound etc etc.
Developers, the latest Lara Croft notwithstanding, (unfortunately, all the characters surrounding Croft are laughably one dimensional) are missing a huge opportunity to tell a story by limiting their narratives to one type of character trope and one gender. Women experience the world differently (not better or worse) and it has yet to be fully explored in the narrative structure of 98% of games. A few sprite swaps are not really going to cut it. This is the whole point of Mulvey's "male gaze" (and consequently while I applaud feminist frequencies effort she misses this point entirely).
Unless their is a really engaging game experience, I just don't feel the need to play through a game as Marcus Fenix, Kratos or Gerald. It's not necessarily because they embody the male power fantasy (which they do) but because they are flat characters and the game play alone isn't satisfying enough for me to invest my time.
I always wonder why developers bother with a tacked on story... imho unless you build a game from the ground up with narrative storytelling in mind it usually comes off as an afterthought. Back to the Future, Walking Dead, Spec Ops: the Line, the first two Mass Effect's, some JRPG's, Kotor, Dragon Age (maybe) are games in which the narrative is integral to the experience. You need to care about the characters and their journey. Playing as my own gender is one way or tool for the developers to draw me into the experience... among others like game design, controls, sound etc etc.
Developers, the latest Lara Croft notwithstanding, (unfortunately, all the characters surrounding Croft are laughably one dimensional) are missing a huge opportunity to tell a story by limiting their narratives to one type of character trope and one gender. Women experience the world differently (not better or worse) and it has yet to be fully explored in the narrative structure of 98% of games. A few sprite swaps are not really going to cut it. This is the whole point of Mulvey's "male gaze" (and consequently while I applaud feminist frequencies effort she misses this point entirely).
Unless their is a really engaging game experience, I just don't feel the need to play through a game as Marcus Fenix, Kratos or Gerald. It's not necessarily because they embody the male power fantasy (which they do) but because they are flat characters and the game play alone isn't satisfying enough for me to invest my time.
I find that it really depends on the game. when the protagonist is well-written and strongly characterized, I don't give a fuck which sex they are, because they're compelling. However, I prefer to play as a woman, and in certain games I'd really like to see that choice(ahem, TF2). Even if your character is covered in a ton of power armor, like in Halo, it's still nice to see some representation of the ladies in combat.
If it's a game where I can choose gender, I'll normally always pick male. Easier for me to get lost in the game.
If I can't choose gender, it's normally not a big deal because then the story is normally pretty strong and I'll still lose myself. Though, I can't think of many games that HAVE a female protagonist.
As for the whole "Woman in games," thing, I have my week moments where I'll see one and I'll oogle them for a moment but that's pretty rare. I always play games for the story or to get lost in gameplay. It sucks though. Off the top of my head, I can think of two good female protagonists, Samus Aran and Lara Croft. One of those even needed a reboot to be respectable though, right?
Chances are it'll be a while before anything major changes.
If I can't choose gender, it's normally not a big deal because then the story is normally pretty strong and I'll still lose myself. Though, I can't think of many games that HAVE a female protagonist.
As for the whole "Woman in games," thing, I have my week moments where I'll see one and I'll oogle them for a moment but that's pretty rare. I always play games for the story or to get lost in gameplay. It sucks though. Off the top of my head, I can think of two good female protagonists, Samus Aran and Lara Croft. One of those even needed a reboot to be respectable though, right?
Chances are it'll be a while before anything major changes.
Ah! Completely misunderstood you there, luv.Mylinkay Asdara said:
No clue, I don't know you. I can tell you what let me turn into a mostly chill old man-eatin' witchwoman beast angel, starting out as a pretty twisted hater: Old age, life experience and the feeling that constant refills of ideology and pats on the back from shady and dubious folks would only go so far in making me happy.
Look around. Keep your eyes and ears and brain wide open. Check if there's a game that really looks interesting. Don't pre-order, they're currently all out to fuck you over, no matter who you are. Identify people that have a similar taste in games to yours. Be open. Pry your mind open before you go all yoga on that third eye of yours. Read a lot. Read more than you watch. Read more than you listen. Then, and only then, listen. If you feel you got a firm grasp on things, talk. This does not apply to online forums, handle them however you like. Shape yourself into the person you want to be for the rest of your life, or just the week to come. We are like that. You can't put all our essence into scientific terms; we don't function like that. Science only allows us to - eventually - make sense of things. Things are not scientific by design. Life is chaos; I can accept that. I don't want it to be an eternal struggle, but that's my own choice.
I was more appalled and disgusted by big-boobied Lara Croft in the original Tomb Raiders. Once I got over that, I found the games to be so appealing I even got a life-size Lara Croft to put at the front of my collection of mannequins. She looked like a bimbo freak, and I still loved and admired her. All the boys, well, most of them, loved her for all the wrong reasons; none of them got a Lara statue. I did. And I knew why. Because I really, really wanted her. They... just played games and wanked a lot. They're still my friends. Some still wank. Others got kids. Kids > Wanking.
If you find yourself in the middle of an identity or midlife crisis, acknowledge it - to yourself only, if there's even the slightest bit of self esteem and respect left. Do get it over with, though. You wouldn't believe how many folks are stuck in a dark place of misandry, misanthropy and misery from age ~40 to the end of their days. It sucks. It's not even a proper illness we could counter; it's a state of mind. Snap out of it. Enjoy life. Enjoy movies. Enjoy games. Keep on reading. It beats them all, hands down. Good luck.