Ladies, how about you?

[Vault101]

I mean really most of the time I posts in these forums now instead of actually getting a follow up question or trying to come to a consensus like we used to(with a fair bit of spats without actually abusing the report function) I now just see this. Posts like Vault101 here that basically go on some martyr complex while at the same time trying to image me as some "more special" being without a single bone of humility in my body. Yet all we are talking about is our hobby. A hobby that just like any other hobby we pursue as a luxury.

ok then...explain what it is your saying because I have no fucking clue

I don't have a martyr complex....I am just soo frustrating at people not understanding why thease things are an issue,

if you still can't understnad it let me break it down

I.....WOULD....LIKE....MORE....GAMES....WITH....GOOD....PROTAGONISTS........ALSO........I....
WOULD....LIKE...TOO....SEE....SOME....GOOD....FEMALE....CHARACHTERS

tell me..please, tell me how this is unreasonable, tell me how this hurts YOU, tell me how this hurts the industry,

 

[Something Amyss]

(Just to be clear, I don't count any character you get dialogue options for as a "full character". If I'm making decisions about what they say, then that ruins my fun of getting to know them.)

To be fair, that could still be done and not change the developed character. Most dialogue options are pretty trivial in the first place. The problem is that they usually also appear in games where the characters are ciphers and the plots are virtual blowjobs to the player character.

"Shepherd, you're the youngest seeker in a century!"

Wait, I may have done that wrong.

For example, people I know who are fans of Mass Effect find the scene where Shepard head-butts another character kick-ass when Shepard is male, but hilarious when Shepard is female, which may or may not be the reaction the writers were looking for!

Personally, I found it awesome when she did it. If Captain Janeway headbutted a couple of Kazon, the show would have been ten times as awesome.

"My people have a saying: You go, girl!"

More importantly, swapping gender is very likely to affect how other characters response to the protagonist. Some games like Dragon Age Origins try to cope with this by programming in different responses depending on which gender you picked (so random NPCs can know whether to remark on the hero's bosoms or not), while other games like Mount and Blade don't even bother to swap the pronouns.

In most games, this has almost zero impact.

Let's face it, it's not like most characters have any real depth anyways. Even the most developed characters in gaming tend to be about on par with Bella and Edward.

Playing the same story again, but with a different hero who reacts to situations in different ways is quite a fun idea.

Which we need more of.

As long as that doesn't mean the plot needs to be dull/simplistic/predictable in order to cope with multiple people as the hero.

Unfortunately, that's a weird qualifier, as most protagonists are dull/simplistic/predictable anyway (as are their plots). In a medium that's mostly Master Chiefs and Nathan Drakes, it's hard for me to see much of a difference. I see where you're coming from potentially, but not in actuality. It's not like the Citizen Kane is getting turned into a "choose your own adventure."

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I love playing as a woman but it doesn't really trouble me much if I have to be a male protagonist. The only time I think "ohh... I would have loved to have the option to be a woman" is for the Rune Factory and Harvest Moon games. Though one thing that does bother me is when games really skimp the options for customisation for women, and there are barely any options at all for it.

There were a couple that allowed it. Some of them were pretty awesome, I hear! (I've only played the original and BTN, but I'd love to try a few of the DS ones.) But... there was also the dreaded Harvest Moon 3 GBC.

In HM3, you can play as a boy or a girl. Picking the girl gives you a free cow and brush. But you can't upgrade your tools. And you have less stamina than the boy character.

Like most (all?) other HM games, you can get married in HM3. If you play as a boy and get married, the game continues. If you play as a girl and get married, the game ends.

Seriously. Natsume. What that fuck.

Are you sure and certain that's how it was supposed to work? I know for a fact I upgraded the hell out of my tools on the PSP version I played and I'm pretty sure (though memory hazes a few years back on such minor life details) that the character I actually made it to marriage with kept right on a-farmin. Maybe that's the PSP version only? NO idea - just that's the only one I played ever (really liked it, great time sink and amusing) ... then again - maybe I did get married and the game ended, or I quit playing. One game I missed a wedding... aw crap this is gonna bug me.

 

[Something Amyss]

a world where every npc is a statue, waiting for the glorious chosen one to come by and solve all their problems and determine their further fate (Dragon Age Origins, here's looking at you) is utterly hollow, and not in the slightest immersive. This kind of wish-fullfillment is in unfortunately high demand, which makes me question the sanity of other self-proclaimed role-players, but we don't need to go on that tangent.

On the contrary. This is the cheapest and easiest way to arrive at "immersion." It appears you are using the common internet version of "immersion," where the lack of it means "something I don't like." However, whether or not you like it, peopel tend to immerse themselves in those games. This is one of the big reasons for their popularity.

Posts like Vault101 here that basically go on some martyr complex while at the same time trying to image me as some "more special" being without a single bone of humility in my body.

I'd personally like to see where this is happening. Right now, though, it looks like you're preaching a lack of moderation and communication while misrepresenting someone who disagrees with you.

However, I'm not against being proven wrong.

 

[bananafishtoday]

I love playing as a woman but it doesn't really trouble me much if I have to be a male protagonist. The only time I think "ohh... I would have loved to have the option to be a woman" is for the Rune Factory and Harvest Moon games. Though one thing that does bother me is when games really skimp the options for customisation for women, and there are barely any options at all for it.

There were a couple that allowed it. Some of them were pretty awesome, I hear! (I've only played the original and BTN, but I'd love to try a few of the DS ones.) But... there was also the dreaded Harvest Moon 3 GBC.

In HM3, you can play as a boy or a girl. Picking the girl gives you a free cow and brush. But you can't upgrade your tools. And you have less stamina than the boy character.

Like most (all?) other HM games, you can get married in HM3. If you play as a boy and get married, the game continues. If you play as a girl and get married, the game ends.

Seriously. Natsume. What that fuck.

Are you sure and certain that's how it was supposed to work? I know for a fact I upgraded the hell out of my tools on the PSP version I played and I'm pretty sure (though memory hazes a few years back on such minor life details) that the character I actually made it to marriage with kept right on a-farmin. Maybe that's the PSP version only? NO idea - just that's the only one I played ever (really liked it, great time sink and amusing) ... then again - maybe I did get married and the game ended, or I quit playing. One game I missed a wedding... aw crap this is gonna bug me.

Oops, I worded that poorly! Sorry. I only meant for "Like most (all?) other HM games" to apply to the fact you could get married, not the game ending. That "feature" was, afaik, only in HM3 for GBA. (Also I went looking for videos of it, and I noticed they all feature the male HM protag as the love interest... so now I'm wondering if you even have a choice of your spouse in that game if you played a female char?)

The scene in question:


Reading about the PSP one, it seems really good! Like an expanded edition of BTN, a game I adored.

Edit:
Ugh. Fuck. Actually, googling tells me that getting married as a girl in the PSP Harvest Moon also ends the game on the spot.


And check out how if you turn him down, the game decides to focus on how he feels and how he needs to grow as a person and his new potential love interest and arghhhhdjysrxAZwsxfd god damnit. (But at least you can keep playing.)

Also a lot of the comments are really sad too.

my cliff loves ann too? omg i already married him lol. but is that really finish after the sentence "life is like a festivel?" why i cant continue the farm with cliff? why i cant have baby with cliff? why it ends after married with him?

It's kind of boring when the game ends because, most of the players are girls and ofcourse SOME of them will choose the girl's ver. then after that , if they get married to one of the bachelors, It will be ..... u know .... kind of a boring shock( cause' the game will end without even living with the bachelor u married((

OMG THE GAME DOES END ONCE U MARRY CLIFF!!! T______T

But yeah, a lot of people on that video and on forums confirm it's not just Cliff, but any of the girl marriages. I know DS Cute lets you keep playing as either character though.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Snip.

Oh yeah that first one looks way older than the one I played on PSP - it was really good, I do recommend - sorry - I got the abbreviations all garbled, like I said, I only played the one. Maybe the game I kept playing was the one I screwed up the marriage option - it's really HARD to have time to farm successfully and go courting. I never figured out how to make the little house of fairy helpers help me right either. Happily - the game book comes with a calendar in the back and if you get it I highly highly recommend jotting down everyone's B-day on it either when you learn it naturally or from a list online, when festivals are, etc. Some are marked out for you already but some aren't - they're sneaky that way.

Also - you are totally in competition for every guy, they all have girls in town who like them, but that is the same for the girls if you're playing a boy too. What I didn't like was someone else was going to be put out when I took one of the possible partners, so I think for a game I gave the whole thing a miss and just stuck to being single so the game went on for what seemed like a long long time.

Totally upgradable tools though - of that I'm certain. Not sure if same or less stamina.

Bummer that getting married ends the game for girls - for boys do they start living with you? Do you get a bigger bed? Can your wife be bothered to do chores around the farm like at least cooking? Gosh cooking as the girl in that game was fun, but it was only useful up to a point.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Also - I'm going to reiterate without quoting some people who seemed to have missed a key element here - I don't have a problem playing games that do not offer me my own gender in the main protagonist. I loved Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, all the Final Fantasy games (until XII, because the story and characterization - I felt - was not up to FF standards; XIII was okay but too much flashbang not enough impact for my expectations of FF games), Assassins Creed I, II, Brotherhood, and Revelations, Devil May Cry 1 and 2 (stopped following it, mostly b/c of other games and obligations eating my playtime up), and dozens and dozens of other titles where the main protagonist was a well established male character.

What I said - and am still saying, though the feeling has somewhat abated thanks to this discussion, which is awesome - was that I was less enthusiastic about such games lately.

I think because of a combination of my sticking to "make your own character" type games (Fallout 3, NV, Oblivion, Skyrim) and "swap option" games (ME 1, 2, 3, DA:O, DA:A, and DA2) in the last few months and the frequent, vehement, and vitriolic discussions about gender in games both here and elsewhere lately. Maybe also because I have been future-planning my outlook for graduate work which will involved some game narrative, story-telling mechanic, and trend deconstruction in an attempt to get the world of academia to see video games as a legitimate literacy worthy of both study and teaching. Add a dash of "little things keep going to crap at random intervals" garden variety gloom and here I was.

Just to refresh people, or clear up confusion that seems to have occurred in asking my fellow Escapists (and specifically my female cohorts, because I have no close female friends in real life that also play video games - just guy friends and my fiancé) about if they feel something - or have felt something - similar. Or don't, and if not why not and maybe advice on how I could not.

 

[bananafishtoday]

Oh yeah that looks way older than the one I played - it was really good, I do recommend - sorry - I got the abbreviations all garbled, like I said, I only played the one. Maybe the game I kept playing was the one I screwed up the marriage option - it's really HARD to have time to farm successfully and go courting. I never figured out how to make the little house of fairy helpers help me right either. Happily - the game book comes with a calendar in the back and if you get it I highly highly recommend jotting down everyone's B-day on it either when you learn it naturally or from a list online, when festivals are, etc. Some are marked out for you already but some aren't - they're sneaky that way.

Totally upgradable tools though - of that I'm certain. Not sure if same or less stamina.

Bummer that getting married ends the game for girls - for boys do they start living with you? Do you get a bigger bed? Can your wife be bothered to do chores around the farm like at least cooking? Gosh cooking as the girl in that game was fun, but it was only useful up to a point.

They start living with you if you play as a boy. (You need the biggest house to propose.) The game always lasts for three ingame years, at which point the villagers decide whether you get to stay or not. The wife doesn't really do anything. She gives you food in the morning, never leaves the house except to go to festivals, and can have a baby. It's just really unfortunate, especially since the series always had a huge female fanbase, that there's so much gender roles bullshit.

Omg I loved the cooking too. The way they set it up was so good (and addicting, holy crap.) That's what gave that version so much longevity for me: the fact that I needed to get all the kitchen supplies, needed to have a varied farm to get all the ingredients, mixing stuff to get new recipes was super interesting, adding condiments could improve or ruin dishes... it was so fun! Plus the festivals, plus the way that the town worked with everyone having their own personal schedules and tons of hidden scenes at specific times.

And whoa, the more I read about DS Cute, the more I want to play it. Apparently the Japanese version even allowed gay marriage. (They called it the "best friends" system, but lol. It's tons of romantic dialogue followed by a wedding. C'mon.) Sadly, it was removed in the American version, surprise surprise.

 

[Krixous]

I personally just like a customizable protagonist as a male i generally play male characters if i have the choice nothing against female characters but if i have to have a character to represent me in a fantasy world i prefer for it to be as much like me as possible but based on my expirence (ex-girlfriends, female friends etc.) i find that women like customizing theyre character to look like 10-15 year old boys who belong in some sort of yaoi fanfic.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

It's never really bothered me in the slightest. If I get to choose or create my character, cool, if I don't I don't, that's fine too.

If a developer creates a game a certain way and they have a certain character they want you to play, I don't question it, because that's what they wanted to create, and I have no power to tell them otherwise(I can of course, but that would be rather selfish, trying to control what artists create).

The way I view game development and play is the reason I thought all the character complaints about Dragon Age 2 were silly. So what if you got to be a dwarf or an elf in the first game. They wanted to make a more personalized story with the second game about one certain family that happened to be human. Just be glad they let you pick between having a male or female Hawke. Even if they had locked play to either gender, I wouldn't have cared. I play RPG's for the gameplay and story not what type of character I get to play as, if I get to pick it is just a little bonus.

Of course, this all could be because I'm not a very picky gamer. I play pretty much every genre and/or style of game, Action Adventure, RPG, JRPG, RTS, Platformer, Fighting, Builder/Creation, Shooters, MMOs, Puzzle, Racing, open world, sandbox, linear, etc, etc. Name it and I play it, well except scary/Horror games, I hate being scared.

So basically, if you look at my game collection for each console I own and on my PC, you will see just about every style of game.

Okay, ramble alert, time for me to step out the door.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Well since it seems to be another wave of discussion about us lady players washing through and it seems to be popping up in every thread, maybe this is a good time for me to post a thought I had awhile back.

This is a question for the female game playing members of the Escapist honestly, and I'm not foolish enough to ask gentlemen not to answer (because that will just provoke all sorts of crap) but the design of the question is directed at my gender so, if you're giving it a go, please stay on topic as much as possible. For the record - this is a question of personal exploration, not a commentary on the industry.

So here's my question: Do you find yourself not feeling a desire to play games that do not offer a male or female protagonist choice, the way others do i.e. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Fallout 3/NV, Skyrim and so forth?

I am finding myself feeling this recently. Having been a player of video games for more than 20 years now, I've played and enjoyed plenty of games that had male only protagonists on offer, but recently I am finding I don't desire to give a title a chance if I can't make... well, myself I guess - or a version of me I choose and I am more comfortable playing a female me in game worlds.

I've speculated that maybe this is simply because I gravitate towards RPGs and that requires a certain amount of immersion to get the most out of as a genre. JRPGs I'm not really counting against that, because you play half a dozen people in those usually and are more of a director of people than inserted into any one of them - kinda like the personal demi-god/dess of whatever party you're rolling around the game world.

Still - people have been saying how good the Witcher is - and this is what brought it to my attention probably a month or so ago, talking about that series with a friend - and I found I have no desire at all to play it. It sounds like a great game, but my turn-off is being a grizzled older man for the entire experience and how I don't think I could get into it in that mode.

Even with little two-player games me and my fiancé play together - one's where there is only the option of picking among dudes I can't really get enthusiastic about, I'm just playing them with him to pass the time together, not for the game itself, and I get indignant that they couldn't throw one sprite in there that represents half the population's sexual characteristics.

Maybe I've just reached a point where, now that it's possible and moving towards more standard, I'm unwilling to settle for less than a choice to play my gender and make my character's face/hair/etc. up to my liking. Maybe I'm just in a bit of a rut playing the same games over and over that offer me that immersion other's don't.

I'm not sure if the old sprite stuff would bother me, it's been ages since I went retro. I'm pretty sure I still love Zelda games even as Link and would enjoy a mario 3 pizza party with friends easily enough, but like I said, it's been forever.


So what's your take? Where are you at? I'm sure I'm not "alone" in this (no one ever is) but I'm having trouble identifying when exactly this shift in my gaming philosophy took place and maybe hearing some perspectives on it might help me identify an "ah-ha" moment.

Hmm... to be fair, the Witcher is based off a popular series of fantasy novels from Poland. I've read some of them... the author shows a bit more maturity when it comes to sex and relationships with women than the games do (though Witcher 2 does improve in that area... somewhat)... so asking to make Geralt into a female Witcher (which does not exist in the universe... not sexism on the author's part, simply him trying to write a convincing medieval society... which were inherently sexist), would be a bit weird. Playing as say... Triss Merigold or any of the other female characters, though? That would be interesting to see (in fact, the Witcher 2 does have some brief segments where that does happen)...

Anyway...

as for your overall point, I think I can relate to where you're coming from... sounds like you're just... tired of seeing male protagonists all the time.

So am I. I'm an aspiring novelist, and I'm currently writing a book about a detective that happens to be a lesbian.
And before any assumptions are made: I'm asexual. The only appeal in writing a lesbian (or any active sexual orientation for that matter) character for me is a certain degree of challenge in portraying sexuality... at all.

As for RPGs... unless there's a specific role-playing reason for me to play one gender over the other... I just flip a coin. Example of a role-playing reason: I only play New Vegas with a female character because I love the irony of a woman dealing death to Caesar's Legion (bonus points for doing him in with a knife). Seriously, the Legion is my most hated faction in that game, closely followed by the Brotherhood of Steel because they keep killing off the Followers of the Apocalypse. Pricks.

 

[captnb2thep]

I am a black man and I guess I can see why some members of the gaming community want to play games where they can play as a character a little more like themselves. In my case, it would be especially frustrating as well if I was looking for that, and when I was younger it didn't really "bother" me but it was something that I did think about and found unfortunate. There arent many major black video game characters IN GENERAL, much less black playable protagonists in non-RPG games and one of the first games I played with one was GTA San Andreas which to say the least isnt the best or ideal depiction of a black male (especially in an EXTREMELY popular game).

Off the top of my head I can't think of many but that doesnt stop me from enjoying games with different protagonists independent of race and gender. I feel like role playing games serve an important niche there. For example there arent many games with minority protagonists, women protagonists or gay protagonists (I feel that will be the next issue called to attention) but in most RPGs, recent ones specifically, you can portray your player in detail down to even sexual orientation.

Side note, I noticed Walking Dead conversation earlier in this thread, and coincidentally, I JUST started watching the series this week. My favorite show is Breaking Bad and for some of my peers to say "its almost as good as Breaking Bad!" it really turned me off from wanting to watch it, because admittedly I have that show on a bit of a pedestal. But overall so far, the show is not bad, but definitely not as good as BB to me (I just watched the first episode I would call "great" in "Pretty Much Dead Already"). I haven't played the games, but ironically, they are said to have a great protagonist who happens to be black, so there goes that lol. I have read that a lot of feminists and female viewers in general have had huge problems with female characters in the Walking Dead TV show and recent AMC shows in general that I have seen some ongoing debates about.

But yeah, back on topic, its a little disconcerting to have 80% of games feature a white male with short hair and grizzly stubble (I remember seeing Bioshock Infinite changing its cover art to one) but I imagine its mostly due to marketing and who buys and plays games the most, as supported by what the Epic Games member saying about how a Gears of War game with a badass female protagonist "wouldn't sell as well." And yeah, that is unfortunate but I don't see that changing soon.

 

[Vault101]

As for RPGs... unless there's a specific role-playing reason for me to play one gender over the other... I just flip a coin. Example of a role-playing reason: I only play New Vegas with a female character because I love the irony of a woman dealing death to Caesar's Legion (bonus points for doing him in with a knife). Seriously, the Legion is my most hated faction in that game, closely followed by the Brotherhood of Steel because they keep killing off the Followers of the Apocalypse. Pricks.

I didnt know the brotherhood were at odds with the followers...

but yeah I really HATE the legion and everything they stand for, not only does cearsar have some backwards fucked up veiws on the world but he's a fucking hypocrite....

it did make playing as a woman all the more satidfying...I kind of wish though more attention was brought to your gender

 

[Vault101]

Now that I think of it, Far Cry 3 would be terribly interesting playing as a female protagonist... I wonder how many other games I can think of that I'd say that same for.

yeah...the whole "3rd world warzone/piracy" thing is a very male centered theme/setting....the Idea of putting a women in that situation is pretty much unheard of...and while unrealistic its not too much of a strech from white boy jason becoming a full on warior

 

[Polarity27]

I don't avoid games with fixed-male protagonists, but I've got limited funds for games and seriously limited time to play games, so knowing that a game lets me play as a woman does make me more likely to pick it instead of an equally interesting-looking, equally well-reviewed one that doesn't. I especially appreciate it if the game is in a genre where it's an unexpected thing, like Halo:Reach. It's a game franchise with a dudebro-heavy fandom in a mucho-macho genre, it was nice to have the option, and I think I ended up caring a lot more about my female Six than I have in the past for Master Chief. I also loved that they didn't sex her up-- she looked like a woman super-soldier in power armor probably would look, if such a thing were real. I think it also made the scene where Halsey gives you the shard of Cortana more poignant, three powerful women trying to save humanity.

BTW, it's odd, but I actually find Skyrim to be more immersive than the first Dragon Age or the first Mass Effect (though admittedly I haven't gotten as far through either as I have through Skyrim) because there's less actual dialogue role-playing. I can imagine the conversations that are going on off-screen without having to go through the "oh, I have to choose between three lines I don't like... oh, for crying out... this character would *never* say that!" that Bioware games tend to inflict on me. (I still can't imagine why people don't just smack Shepard. "Tell me everything about your childhood. Stop, I must move on now" Something about the way you end up interrogating everyone you meet over the silliest shit, and then when you exit the conversation, leaving with such a terse response to the person who just laid out their life story gave me serious second-hand embarrassment squick. I stopped playing partly due to irritation with the mechanics and partly because Shepard annoyed the good fuck out of me.) I don't have to role-play everything about my Dovahkiin on-screen, so I can decide why my Redguard was crossing the border when she got caught, and how she'd react to being made some other peoples' mythological hero vs. how my Nord from Kynesgrove feels about it, having grown up on those stories. Sometimes less makes room for more.

 

[Vault101]

[snip**

I get the impression (from that rambling wall of text that I cant decipher) that he was trying to somhow imply the its YOUR fault you feel that way..that its some deep issue you have

its not, what your feeling is perfectly normal, youve played enough games that your seeing the trends and now your bored with it...its not that bloody complcated

we all crave better....beter quality, somthing different that doesnt conform to our preconceptions that have built up through years of playing the same old shit

people like temnar can "wall of text" all the pretentiousness they want, but really thease are not problems to be ignored...

 

[Zannah]

a world where every npc is a statue, waiting for the glorious chosen one to come by and solve all their problems and determine their further fate (Dragon Age Origins, here's looking at you) is utterly hollow, and not in the slightest immersive. This kind of wish-fullfillment is in unfortunately high demand, which makes me question the sanity of other self-proclaimed role-players, but we don't need to go on that tangent.

On the contrary. This is the cheapest and easiest way to arrive at "immersion." It appears you are using the common internet version of "immersion," where the lack of it means "something I don't like." However, whether or not you like it, peopel tend to immerse themselves in those games. This is one of the big reasons for their popularity.

I define Immersion as "providing me with a living, breathing world that could realistically work, and that I can expect to continue beyond the immediate boundaries of the given story". Just like I define food as "a piece of edible sustenance that allows me to counteract starvation". If it became a new fad to eat car-tires garnished with rat-poison, that would not make those tires food anymore then being popular makes those "a jesus is you" games immersive (or for that matter rpgs).

It's just that with the latter, their popularity is more easily explained, even if doing so would probably require an amount of swears that'd get me banned.

 

[TheDoctor455]

As for RPGs... unless there's a specific role-playing reason for me to play one gender over the other... I just flip a coin. Example of a role-playing reason: I only play New Vegas with a female character because I love the irony of a woman dealing death to Caesar's Legion (bonus points for doing him in with a knife). Seriously, the Legion is my most hated faction in that game, closely followed by the Brotherhood of Steel because they keep killing off the Followers of the Apocalypse. Pricks.

I didnt know the brotherhood were at odds with the followers...

but yeah I really HATE the legion and everything they stand for, not only does cearsar have some backwards fucked up veiws on the world but he's a fucking hypocrite....

it did make playing as a woman all the more satidfying...I kind of wish though more attention was brought to your gender

If you kill him, some NPCs will notice the irony.

Ulysses also brings it up... subtly.

And yeah...

if you encourage Veronica to help the Followers... the Brotherhood of Steel massacres the unarmed doctors in Old Mormon Fort. Why? Because they didn't want her spreading her knowledge around.

Also... unless you ally them with the NCR with McNamara alive... and go for the NCR ending... they'll basically turn into a group of raiders with Power Armor.