Lady Bits Kickstarter by Liana Kerzner

[nomotog_v1legacy]

You can't criticise our snobbery for preferring "senior feminists" one second and then praise Kerzner for being a totes real gamer and rational adult the next. Well okay, you did. But it was silly.

Eh, I don't see how. Being a quote-unquote "gamer" and a rational adult are qualities that one would suppose would help someone to have an understanding of the medium they are going to be critically evaluating.

It would also help if they knew the lens they would be using to look at it. That is the issue. You valued being a good gamer, but not being good feminist. Ideally you would want to be both. (I don't know if we have a both.)

I can be charitable in that they maybe stupid, but they might say something smart. Some times not knowing what your doing lets you uncover something new... That is me being charitable anyway. Some of the videos do sound like they will be neat. The tomb raider reboot for example.

 

[CaitSeith]

We'll know if she does a good job once the videos start to come out. Anything before that are guesses, suppositions and assumptions.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Perhaps. The thing that stuck the most with me was her editorial [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/columns/cosplaydossier/16928-A-Cosplayer-s-Response-to-Xbox-s-Core-Values-at-GDC] on the issue of GDC hiring "dancers" for their attendee party, dancers that turned out to be women in skimpy outfits. The whole issue was with the stupidity in reinforcing the "gamers want to ogle girls" and "women don't attend GDC" stereotypes, but Kerzner in her desperation to butt in tried to argue that there was no difference between these professional models and hobbyist cosplayers. In fact, the column has her arguing that Microsofts response was not in regards to professional models but some sort of attack on cosplayers, when there's absolutely no connection between the two. That column solidified my opinion that Kerzner is more interested in being heard then having anything relevant or interesting to say.

Both of us have posts near the top of that article's thread with more or less the same response, and so we still agree Kerzner's a tad deficient in the critical thinking department. It was referring to her as an attention seeker that I wasn't so sure about, given that pertains to her intentions, and for me there's not really enough to go on to come to that conclusion.

...scanning that article did remind me why I wasn't sad in the slightest to see her content vanish from this site, however. I will try to remember to check out her series, to see if it's more of the same or if she can manage to create something constructive.

 

[jademunky]

We'll know if she does a good job once the videos start to come out. Anything before that are guesses, suppositions and assumptions.

But we all know that if even one video is a day behind schedule, it totally invalidates everything she has to say from now until eternity and makes her a scam artist. Also I want to see receipts for every one of her kickstarter dollars even though I did not back her in any way. Also if she receives any harassment, that means she is faking it and is a professional victim.

 

[CaitSeith]

We'll know if she does a good job once the videos start to come out. Anything before that are guesses, suppositions and assumptions.

But we all know that if even one video is a day behind schedule, it totally invalidates everything she has to say from now until eternity and makes her a scam artist. Also I want to see receipts for every one of her kickstarter dollars even though I did not back her in any way. Also if she receives any harassment, that means she is faking it and is a professional victim.

Come on! As long as her feminist criticisms don't accuse any popular game on showing sexism or some non-sense like that; she must know what she is doing. /s

 

[Ogoid]

Conversely, I'm entirely sure gaming media will trip over themselves to proclaim her and her series the single most important event to gaming since Pong, praise every single word out of her mouth no matter how intellectually dishonest and/or factually incorrect, overlook every single hypothetical instance of her using other people's work without permission, and - naturally - brand every single person who breathes so much as a syllable of disagreement as a woman-hating, neckbearded, basement-dwelling stereotype who only proves everything she may or may not say is not only entirely correct but fundamentally necessary.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Conversely, I'm entirely sure gaming media will trip over themselves to proclaim her and her series the single most important event to gaming since Pong, praise every single word out of her mouth no matter how intellectually dishonest and/or factually incorrect, overlook every single hypothetical instance of her using other people's work without permission, and - naturally - brand every single person who breathes so much as a syllable of disagreement as a woman-hating, neckbearded, basement-dwelling stereotype who only proves everything she may or may not say is not only entirely correct but fundamentally necessary.

Only once 4/chan neckbeards start sending her unimaginable levels of harassment for having the gall to criticize their toys the wrong way.

So, by episode one?

 

[Ogoid]

Only once 4/chan neckbeards start sending her unimaginable levels of harassment for having the gall to criticize their toys the wrong way.

So, by episode one?

I'm sorry, but how does that logically follow? What does one thing have to do with another?

If getting shit-talked about on the internet (like every single person with any degree of notoriety who ever said anything about video games on the internet) earns one a complete and unrestricted letter of endorsement from media, that just tells me said media is less interested in reporting on facts - i.e., doing its supposed job - than in engaging in propaganda.

 

[maninahat]

We'll know if she does a good job once the videos start to come out. Anything before that are guesses, suppositions and assumptions.

But we all know that if even one video is a day behind schedule, it totally invalidates everything she has to say from now until eternity and makes her a scam artist. Also I want to see receipts for every one of her kickstarter dollars even though I did not back her in any way. Also if she receives any harassment, that means she is faking it and is a professional victim.

Come on! As long as her feminist criticisms don't accuse any popular game on showing sexism or some non-sense like that; she must know what she is doing. /s

In fact, as long as she's talking about how videogames are not sexist in any way shape or form, she doesn't have to have any sources, or have played the games, or really show any talent at this form of media what so ever.

She says what we're all thinking dammit!

*shrugs* Works for Hoff Sommers.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Only once 4/chan neckbeards start sending her unimaginable levels of harassment for having the gall to criticize their toys the wrong way.

So, by episode one?

I'm sorry, but how does that logically follow? What does one thing have to do with another?

If getting shit-talked about on the internet (like every single person with any degree of notoriety who ever said anything about video games on the internet) earns one a complete and unrestricted letter of endorsement from media, that just tells me said media is less interested in reporting on facts - i.e., doing its supposed job - than in engaging in propaganda.

Oh, were we not being sarcastically hyperbolic?

 

[Ogoid]

Oh, were we not being sarcastically hyperbolic?

As far as my posts went?

Sarcastic, sure - as pertains to Ms. Kerzner, anyway. I doubt the media will give her the time of day, because, as can be seen in this thread alone, she's the wrong kind of cultural critic.

Hyperbolic... not so much.

 

[CaitSeith]

Conversely, I'm entirely sure gaming media will trip over themselves to proclaim her and her series the single most important event to gaming since Pong, praise every single word out of her mouth no matter how intellectually dishonest and/or factually incorrect, overlook every single hypothetical instance of her using other people's work without permission, and - naturally - brand every single person who breathes so much as a syllable of disagreement as a woman-hating, neckbearded, basement-dwelling stereotype who only proves everything she may or may not say is not only entirely correct but fundamentally necessary.

Nah! The media have her under the wishy-washy list since gamergate. The only way she becomes the next Anita, would be if someone killed her cat, skinned it, nailed it to her door, and called it "criticism of her videos".

PS: Pretty please, no one do it!

 

[Schadrach]

I don't know who Liana Kerzner is, but that Kickstarter pitch reads like, "Awww, did mean ol' Sarkessian hurt your gamer feelings? Here's a certified female and REAL GAMER to tell you that everything is just fine. There there."

Not a fan of the "100% plaid free" joke, huh? It did fall kinda flat, since unless you were thinking about her expressly in comparison to Sarkeesian it didn't really land, and if you were it felt a bit petty.

One might say she is a less educated Christina Hoff Sommers.

Oh. Well in that case she's yet another grifter relying on the axiom that it's hard to go broke gambling on human stupidity.

Sadly, there is an audience for this shit. A sweaty, whiny, tragically insecure audience but an audience.

It's not like she's never done a series of videos talking about feminism before. [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf9ZVzFaBzHl1HQPeOBIGLTIf7B5i42iV] Likewise, if you want her feelings regarding Sarkeesian for some reason... [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf9ZVzFaBzHl58cMWr4UWjBRapHJDbQp7]

as Feminist Frequency ... misrepresent certain games and moments rather terribly. ... did so in variously inept and/or misleading ways

Aside from a few low hanging fruit, this was pretty much FF in a nutshell. That and grabbing a huge amount of her footage from Let's Plays (the biggest exception being the Hitman footage) and in one case using fanart of a character without, you know, crediting the people whose efforts she was using.

Conversely, I'm entirely sure gaming media will trip over themselves to proclaim her and her series the single most important event to gaming since Pong, praise every single word out of her mouth no matter how intellectually dishonest and/or factually incorrect, overlook every single hypothetical instance of her using other people's work without permission, and - naturally - brand every single person who breathes so much as a syllable of disagreement as a woman-hating, neckbearded, basement-dwelling stereotype who only proves everything she may or may not say is not only entirely correct but fundamentally necessary.

No no no, you *really* don't understand how it works. She disagrees with Anita quite a lot. Which means she disagrees with the feminist orthodoxy regarding gaming, which means she doesn't count as a *woman* any more at least so far as how she should be treated is concerned. If someone did something horrific and overtly misogynistic to her, the most coverage she'd get is a tweet along the lines of "If you lie down with dogs..." Weirdly, I don't expect anything like that to happen.

Kind of like how the only women actually forced out of a geeky space as a result of Gamergate were driven out of a convention for being both pro-GG and MRAs. As far as I know, that lawsuit is still ongoing.

 

[Schadrach]

But we all know that if even one video is a day behind schedule, it totally invalidates everything she has to say from now until eternity and makes her a scam artist. Also I want to see receipts for every one of her kickstarter dollars even though I did not back her in any way. Also if she receives any harassment, that means she is faking it and is a professional victim.

Sarcasm aside, I expect to see some idea of where the money went. As opposed to Anita, where there wasn't even a significant improvement in her video quality, and she already had the space setup to do those videos from her previous work so the upfront costs would be comparatively low and she made a buttload of money, as opposed to Liana who's got to buy/build most of that stuff and on a comparatively small budget (she's going to clock in at less than 1/6th of what Anita had to work with).

The real question is if Liana will actually produce the videos outlined or not. Because Anita never did (she produced a shorter series of in several cases shorter videos and still never managed to cover the set of topics she stated she was going to cover in her pitch).

but Kerzner in her desperation to butt in tried to argue that there was no difference between these professional models and hobbyist cosplayers. In fact, the column has her arguing that Microsofts response was not in regards to professional models but some sort of attack on cosplayers, when there's absolutely no connection between the two. That column solidified my opinion that Kerzner is more interested in being heard then having anything relevant or interesting to say.

No, Liana was arguing that pushes against one tend to spill over into the other. She's not wrong about that, mind you. Look at PAX, where a policy against "booth babes" and setting the lines for that eventually spilled out into the frankly silly rules about cos-players not showing "aggressive navel".

Of course, I'm also starting to feel the people saying that social justice BS is digging too deep into PAX might be onto something when I was on the bus back to the hotel one night from this year's PAX East and a woman a few rows ahead of me was talking about the panel on chickens in games and how the use of chickens in the Zelda titles is an example of the patriarchy excluding women from games, because the chickens depicted are all male, based on the sprite design.

As Alison Tieman says, feminists can make women the victims of/oppressed by literally anything...

 

[jademunky]

The real question is if Liana will actually produce the videos outlined or not. Because Anita never did (she produced a shorter series of in several cases shorter videos and still never managed to cover the set of topics she stated she was going to cover in her pitch).

Her (Anita's) initial request was for 6,000 USD for a half-dozen 15-20 minute videos. Yeah she had stretch goals as well but this initial amount and goal was clearly what she was expecting and preparing for.

My understanding is she did complete a dozen videos of 25+ mins apiece totaling over 300 minutes of content.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Just wondering if there was a reason for The Escapist not covering former employee Liana's kickstarter?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1221065590/lady-bits-by-liana-kerzner

They fired her.
They fired everybody.

 

[Chewster]

Oh fuck! I remember her! I actually met her back in the day, at some comic shop in my hometown. She and her husband, the guy who does Ed the Sock, were trying to drum up interest in their show during its decline in popularity. I actually watched it quite a bit when I was a horny, angsty, night owl teenager. It was kind of like a low-rent Man Show, funny in a sexist, crass sort of way. It was also, unsurprisingly, broadcast on CityTV (aka. that station lampooned for being willing to show anything in Cronenberg's Videodrome.) Fromage was pretty good though.

They were also promoting some comic that I assume went nowhere because I don't recall hearing too much about it after that. I think I may even have the first issue autographed, tucked away somewhere in my folks basement.

Anywho, that Kickstarter was a bit cringy and judging by previous media and contributions here (which I didn't really pay much attention to if I'm being honest because it never seemed like she had especially interesting to say), this looks like it'll be nothing I can't live without. Looks like she made her goal, so it's not like she needs my support anyway.

 

[StatusNil]

Which means she disagrees with the feminist orthodoxy regarding gaming, which means she doesn't count as a *woman* any more at least so far as how she should be treated is concerned. If someone did something horrific and overtly misogynistic to her, the most coverage she'd get is a tweet along the lines of "If you lie down with dogs..."

Yeah, looking at overall coverage, seems only two gaming sites have covered this, oneangrygamer.net and thegg.net. Also there are a couple of podcasts, one with Erik Kain of Forbes.

Funny that, if you actually believed that all these "progressive" gaming sites were really concerned with "Muh Diverse Voices!" as they so enthusiastically claim. But turns out they would only like there to be one Voice heard at all, that of their own quasi-religious sect. It's exactly as if a whole network of Scientologist gaming sites were calling for Diversity of views, but only so far as they profess the undeniable truthiness of the great Science of Dianetics.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Which means she disagrees with the feminist orthodoxy regarding gaming, which means she doesn't count as a *woman* any more at least so far as how she should be treated is concerned. If someone did something horrific and overtly misogynistic to her, the most coverage she'd get is a tweet along the lines of "If you lie down with dogs..."

Yeah, looking at overall coverage, seems only two gaming sites have covered this, oneangrygamer.net and thegg.net. Also there are a couple of podcasts, one with Erik Kain of Forbes.

Funny that, if you actually believed that all these "progressive" gaming sites were really concerned with "Muh Diverse Voices!" as they so enthusiastically claim. But turns out they would only like there to be one Voice heard at all, that of their own quasi-religious sect. It's exactly as if a whole network of Scientologist gaming sites were calling for Diversity of views, but only so far as they profess the undeniable truthiness of the great Science of Dianetics.

Like I keep trying to tell you guys, the only reason Sarkeesian became a thing was the Streisand effect. If angry nerds hadn't raged at her with the fury of a thousand dying stars, she'd have made goal, produced a handful of videos, and largely been ignored by the press. Kerzner, by comparison, is getting mild derision based mostly on her "I'm the cool feminist, not like that other one, *nudgenudgewinkwink*"

Ya'll have yourselves to blame.