Landlord Troubles

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Soviet Heavy

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Jan 22, 2010
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So, three friends and myself have been renting a house together since May. It's been rather bumpy, partly due to friction between us and one of our roommates, but primarily due to the lack of communication with our Landlords. Our house is a two apartment duplex, and we share our side with the landlords. We have the upstairs apartment, they have the downstairs one.

So far, on several occasions, they have failed to uphold their agreements in our lease, particularly in regards to noise. They have a lot of animals. At last count, I know they have at least two dogs, several parrots, a large fish tank, a stingray tank filling the entire garage, and a flock of grouse. All of this is in a town house. The stink becomes unbearable as they never seem to air out their half of the house, so the smell of bird crap and animal odor wafts up into our half of the house. They also have no soundproofing between the two apartments, nor do they have a lock between our halves of the house. Considering that we don't trust our landlords very much, this is concerning if they can come and go as they please without us knowing.

But we've lived with it, and as soon as our lease finishes, we're never looking back. It's easily been one of the worst houses I've lived in. Right now, our main problem has come down to hydro bills. With no reasonable explanation, they have slapped an extra hundred dollars onto our hydro bill between October and December. They claim that it has come from us running space heaters in our rooms rather while also running the furnace. They claim that these heaters can cost up to $3.00 a day to run, and they are arguing that this is where the expense came from.

This is wrong for a few reasons. One, we only used the heaters extensively after they refused to turn on the furnace back in October (they live downstairs, they were warm already). Once they did turn the furnace on, we stopped using the heaters, and rarely use them anymore, maybe once or twice a week, and never for more than a few hours. So I highly doubt this is where the extra money has come from. I don't think that sporadic heater usage would rack up that much extra fees.

They're being tight lipped about other explanations. Our water usage has not risen any. I still use the same water every day. One shower, one or two bathroom uses, and running the sink to clean dishes. I do laundry once every two weeks, the same as I had when our bills were less. All three of my roommates have said the same, our water usage hasn't risen. We're also quite conscious about turning off lights when we aren't home, so I don't believe this is where such a large hike came from either.

It is concerning. Since we don't know exactly how much their hydro usage is, we asked them months ago to start writing down their expenses as well as ours so that we could compare. Recently, they added two pumps to their stingray tank, and applied $200 extra dollars to their expenses to show for it. But I'm not convinced. The stingray tank is the size of a small car, and I honestly don't know how much money it would take to maintain it and continue cycling water. There are times where I feel like our landlords are understating their expenses and raising ours to cover for them. They don't have regular jobs, so they rely on oddjob work and rent to pay their bills.

We're currently forming a list of items to bring to their attention, such as extra clarification on their expenses compared to ours, demanding a lock be put on the door separating the apartments, and our complaints about the smell and noise of their zoo downstairs. We're trying to look for any legal loophole we can find to bring this to someone's attention, anything that might void our lease so that we can leave. Because none of us want to stay here anymore, and we are feeling like we're being taken advantage of.

Any insight from you guys would be great, since we're being very cautious about how we go about this. We don't want to bring up an argument only to have it blow up in our faces and then have hostile landlords below us. Anyone had similar troubles with a landlord? What did you do to confront them or solve the problem?
 

Reed Spacer

That guy with the thing.
Jan 11, 2011
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This really should be in the advice forum.

By which I mean 'Post this in the advice forum.'
 

OneCatch

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Jun 19, 2010
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Are you in Canada as per your profile?

I'm afraid I can only speak for my experiences here in the UK, but here you'd probably have grounds to terminate your lease on the grounds of no private areas and hygiene issues alone.

That said, the bills thing is going to be difficult if you have combined bills. If all the gas and electric is combined it's obviously rather difficult to determine what each person should pay. If your contract stipulates that you each pay a percentage of total bills then you'll have to stick to it (after seeing the bills in question to ensure they're charging you right).
But if your contract dictates a defined monetary amount in bills each months and they've demanded more, you're probably within your rights to refuse unless they can prove the extra expense is because of you.

Regardless, I'd recommend asking to see a few months worth of bills from the utility supplier before paying any extra. That's a perfectly reasonable request that shouldn't cause any resentment, and should give you a better idea about what's going on.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Jan 22, 2010
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OneCatch said:
Are you in Canada as per your profile?

I'm afraid I can only speak for my experiences here in the UK, but here you'd probably have grounds to terminate your lease on the grounds of no private areas and hygiene issues alone.

That said, the bills thing is going to be difficult if you have combined bills. If all the gas and electric is combined it's obviously rather difficult to determine what each person should pay. If your contract stipulates that you each pay a percentage of total bills then you'll have to stick to it (after seeing the bills in question to ensure they're charging you right).
But if your contract dictates a defined monetary amount in bills each months and they've demanded more, you're probably within your rights to refuse unless they can prove the extra expense is because of you.

Regardless, I'd recommend asking to see a few months worth of bills from the utility supplier before paying any extra. That's a perfectly reasonable request that shouldn't cause any resentment, and should give you a better idea about what's going on.
Yes, we've demanded that they show us their expenses compared to ours. They pay for their hydro and gas usage, and we pay for ours. We're all on one meter, so they try to tally up their usage, and then give us the rest to split four ways. The problem is, I don't know exactly how much they actually use to keep their heaters for animals or their pumps for their fish tanks running. I imagine recycling the water on a car sized fish tank takes a lot. Then there's the fact that we don't trust them to be honest with us, so that has cast doubt over how much they actually are using compared to us.

We'll stick with refusing to pay until they can prove that that extra hundred dollars was actually ours and not theirs. Writing this, I just remembered that near the start of this particular billing period, they did install a pair of large heaters for their hawk pen out behind the house. If those were running constantly, that could theoretically cost a lot. They did have those heaters written into their expenses, but again, trusting them to be honest has been a major issue.
 

OneCatch

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Jun 19, 2010
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Soviet Heavy said:
OneCatch said:
Are you in Canada as per your profile?

I'm afraid I can only speak for my experiences here in the UK, but here you'd probably have grounds to terminate your lease on the grounds of no private areas and hygiene issues alone.

That said, the bills thing is going to be difficult if you have combined bills. If all the gas and electric is combined it's obviously rather difficult to determine what each person should pay. If your contract stipulates that you each pay a percentage of total bills then you'll have to stick to it (after seeing the bills in question to ensure they're charging you right).
But if your contract dictates a defined monetary amount in bills each months and they've demanded more, you're probably within your rights to refuse unless they can prove the extra expense is because of you.

Regardless, I'd recommend asking to see a few months worth of bills from the utility supplier before paying any extra. That's a perfectly reasonable request that shouldn't cause any resentment, and should give you a better idea about what's going on.
Yes, we've demanded that they show us their expenses compared to ours. They pay for their hydro and gas usage, and we pay for ours. We're all on one meter, so they try to tally up their usage, and then give us the rest to split four ways. The problem is, I don't know exactly how much they actually use to keep their heaters for animals or their pumps for their fish tanks running. I imagine recycling the water on a car sized fish tank takes a lot. Then there's the fact that we don't trust them to be honest with us, so that has cast doubt over how much they actually are using compared to us.

We'll stick with refusing to pay until they can prove that that extra hundred dollars was actually ours and not theirs. Writing this, I just remembered that near the start of this particular billing period, they did install a pair of large heaters for their hawk pen out behind the house. If those were running constantly, that could theoretically cost a lot. They did have those heaters written into their expenses, but again, trusting them to be honest has been a major issue.
Well, I'd have thought that strengthens your case somewhat.
What does your contract dictate is done about bills? Does it not mention them at all, or is there a specific mention of them?

I also found this, which is written from the landlords perspective but might be useful:

http://www.landlordselfhelp.com/education/forum_q_a.asp?sub_id=52&

Would seem to indicate that with regard to utilities, landlords don't have a great deal of protection when it comes to utilities - which works in your favour in this case.
 

IndomitableSam

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Sep 6, 2011
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Contact your Residential Tenancies Board and go through the Legislation concerning rental agreements and such. I don't know what province you're in (it's probably out west if they can keep a stingray alive all year in a garage), so chances are it's not Manitoba. The Tenancies Board should be an easy to use site. If you know someone who knows how to look up legislation, have them do so. Otherwise (depending on which province you're in, not all are open to the public), contact your provincial legislative library and pay them a visit to see and copy the pertinent legislation. Here in Manitoba the online versions aren't official even though they're exactly the same as the printed versions, so photocopies are 'legal' when using them to back up arguments, but print-ups may not be.

I have to head home now, but check out the Tenancies Board page, and contact them, it should be easy to break your lease without repercussions as other people stated above.

Experience: Work in a legislative library and have terrible neighbours.
 

Batou667

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Oct 5, 2011
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Just finishing up a legal wrangle with my terrible, unprofessional jackass of a former landlord, I'd say:
- Go through your lease or tenancy agreement with a fine-toothed comb. Make at least one physical copy and keep the original in a safe place off the premises. If it went missing - or "missing" - you'd be screwed.
- Check your local and national laws on tenancy rights, landlord's rights and renting guidelines, as it may be possible there are clauses in your agreement that are illegal.
- Record EVERYTHING. Bills, conversations, dates, times of the day the landlord was making noise, everything.
- Although a legal professional will cost you money, you may be able to get free basic legal advice to clarify your rights and what action you can take against the landlord. I'm not sure what the citizen's advice situation is like in Canada, but google is your friend, and your local library will also likely be able to help.
- Stick to your contractual obligations like a saint. If this goes to court, you'll want to be squeaky clean. If the landlord has ammunition like "well, they withheld rent for two weeks" and can drag it down to a tit-for-tat fight where you've both breached the contract, it'll put you in a poor position.

Good luck. Screw him over as hard as you can.
 

Aariana

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Apr 10, 2010
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Somewhat unrelated, but have you contacted the local humane society about the animals? If the smell is as bad as you say, chances are they aren't being cared for properly. You could argue that with poor cleanliness and poor living conditions you are in an unsafe environment. I seriously doubt that from a legal standpoint you could be forced stay in a house that is unsafe, contract or not.