Lara Croft: Intentionally flawed or just flawed?

[The Madman]

Amazingly enough I don't play Tomb Raider for Lara Croft, I play it for the puzzles. That's why I'm always amazed when these topics come up and people comment on Tomb Raider being for hormone driven kids. Are you kidding me? Teens these days are used to Gears of War and Halo, Tomb Raider is such an archaic series with such dodgy gameplay and long, tedious puzzles they'll be bored the second the novelty of Lara's ass wears off.

And frankly I don't much give a damn about the plot either... that said I've always liked Lara as a protagonist in what few scenes I pay attention. Why wouldn't I? She's pretty much just Indiana Jones but with breasts, or so that's how she started out. Now she's got this entire backstory with tragic parents and rich childhood and all that, but me, I'll always think of her as that adventurous young woman from the first games just out to explore for the hell of it and having a grand time doing so.

Anniversary I thought was fantastic, it was extremely fun to revisit the old puzzles from ages ago. The other two new games? Not so much. Still a *huge* step up from the game that came before, darkness something wasn't it? God, that game was terrible!

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I think that the game devs. are just tring to portray her as a bad-ass (albeit badly), not as a brutal blood bathing monstrous killer.

What's the difference between someone killing thousands of people in a badass way to killing them in a brutal way? Being a man and knowing the right one liners?

 

[squid5580]

Why is being a winner a flaw? She knows what she wants. She goes after it. She steps over a few bodies in the process. Given the chance any of those bodies could have been hers. Dog eat dog.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Why is being a winner a flaw? She knows what she wants. She goes after it. She steps over a few bodies in the process. Given the chance any of those bodies could have been hers. Dog eat dog.

Bloody hell, Jack Thompson is right. Violent games should be banned now if they normalise this sort of opinion.

 

[squid5580]

Why is being a winner a flaw? She knows what she wants. She goes after it. She steps over a few bodies in the process. Given the chance any of those bodies could have been hers. Dog eat dog.

Bloody hell, Jack Thompson is right. Violent games should be banned now if they normalise this sort of opinion.

What so she should let them kill her out of the goodness of her heart? She should just stay home and watch TV instead of pursuing her dream because there might be someone or something there who wants her dead that she might have to kill? And while we are at it why is this kind of scenario not ok in video games but is perfectly fine in books, movies and even some music? Sure it is ok for the bible but not for a video game.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Wait a minute...

Lara has a personality???

 

[More Fun To Compute]

What so she should let them kill her out of the goodness of her heart? She should just stay home and watch TV instead of pursuing her dream because there might be someone or something there who wants her dead that she might have to kill? And while we are at it why is this kind of scenario not ok in video games but is perfectly fine in books, movies and even some music? Sure it is ok for the bible but not for a video game.

I'm pretty sure that the Bible doesn't say that it is fine to kill anyone you want as long as they stand between you and your personal goals. The new testament at least. It could be that you are mistaking Robocop for the Bible or something but then you should remember that Robocop had a strong satirical element.

Believe it or not, the people who make the games decide how many people want to kill Lara Croft. Instead of setting whole armies against her they could decide that not many people want to kill her and those people can be avoided or dealt with in non fatal ways.

 

[Jonatron]

What so she should let them kill her out of the goodness of her heart? She should just stay home and watch TV instead of pursuing her dream because there might be someone or something there who wants her dead that she might have to kill? And while we are at it why is this kind of scenario not ok in video games but is perfectly fine in books, movies and even some music? Sure it is ok for the bible but not for a video game.

I'm pretty sure that the Bible doesn't say that it is fine to kill anyone you want as long as they stand between you and your personal goals. The new testament at least. It could be that you are mistaking Robocop for the Bible or something but then you should remember that Robocop had a strong satirical element.

Believe it or not, the people who make the games decide how many people want to kill Lara Croft. Instead of setting whole armies against her they could decide that not many people want to kill her and those people can be avoided or dealt with in non fatal ways.

And as far as whole armies go... This guy certainly hasn't played the Wii Version of Underworld.

 

[squid5580]

What so she should let them kill her out of the goodness of her heart? She should just stay home and watch TV instead of pursuing her dream because there might be someone or something there who wants her dead that she might have to kill? And while we are at it why is this kind of scenario not ok in video games but is perfectly fine in books, movies and even some music? Sure it is ok for the bible but not for a video game.

I'm pretty sure that the Bible doesn't say that it is fine to kill anyone you want as long as they stand between you and your personal goals. The new testament at least. It could be that you are mistaking Robocop for the Bible or something but then you should remember that Robocop had a strong satirical element.

Believe it or not, the people who make the games decide how many people want to kill Lara Croft. Instead of setting whole armies against her they could decide that not many people want to kill her and those people can be avoided or dealt with in non fatal ways.

The old testament is jam packed full of violence that is corrupting our youth. And how much fun would it be to have one guy chasing her the whole time? Or have no one chasing her? Just go in solve a few puzzles and leave. Sounds like a snoozefest to me. Having "armies" chasing her builds the tension and suspense. You know those things that make entertainment entertaining to most people.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Couple of recent videos I've seen have both mentioned the fact the Lara Croft is a horrible person - killing and destroying at will for little-to-no reason.

Some people are desperate for ratings. Doesn't mention the, ooooh, millions of other characters that do the same thing.

People see Lara as a sex object rather than as a sexual image and are APALLED. How dare that woman be sexy and not interested in me?

I like her. She kicks ass.

 

[atol]

I am a fan of Tomb Raider from the days where she controlled like a truck and I still am now. I am 100% certain that her tits are the last thing to make me want to play the game. I find it annoying to hear people say that people only play the game for her body...

Maybe her double D's don't matter very much anymore, but they undoubtedly played a large role in making the name 'Lara Croft' as popular as it has become. There's still plenty of sexy in the newer games. If they replaced Lara with a man for instance, he wouldn't be known any more than Nathan Drake is.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

The old testament is jam packed full of violence that is corrupting our youth. And how much fun would it be to have one guy chasing her the whole time? Or have no one chasing her? Just go in solve a few puzzles and leave. Sounds like a snoozefest to me. Having "armies" chasing her builds the tension and suspense. You know those things that make entertainment entertaining to most people.

Saying that killing lots of humans is good for all games because it raises the tension and suspense is a different argument to saying that killing people is always justified if they are in your way and anyway everybody else is doing it. I wonder what new argument you will come up with if I knock this one down. I'm beginning to suspect that you love the idea of killing people and don't want anybody to tell you that it is in any way a bad thing. :0

If people don't enjoy puzzle solving then they should fuck right off if they want to complain about how Tomb Raider is boring because it is the main element of the game. There are plenty of ways to introduce tension and suspense without being confronted by a man with a gun and the game has plenty. You might say that any way of increasing the tension is a good thing but some things are more appropriate than others.

 

[hypothetical fact]

The old testament is jam packed full of violence that is corrupting our youth. And how much fun would it be to have one guy chasing her the whole time? Or have no one chasing her? Just go in solve a few puzzles and leave. Sounds like a snoozefest to me. Having "armies" chasing her builds the tension and suspense. You know those things that make entertainment entertaining to most people.

Saying that killing lots of humans is good for all games because it raises the tension and suspense is a different argument to saying that killing people is always justified if they are in your way and anyway everybody else is doing it. I wonder what new argument you will come up with if I knock this one down. I'm beginning to suspect that you love the idea of killing people and don't want anybody to tell you that it is in any way a bad thing. :0

If people don't enjoy puzzle solving then they should fuck right off if they want to complain about how Tomb Raider is boring because it is the main element of the game. There are plenty of ways to introduce tension and suspense without being confronted by a man with a gun and the game has plenty. You might say that any way of increasing the tension is a good thing but some things are more appropriate than others.

Pacifism is boring. We play games for fun and enterainment, maybe meeting another archeologist and having a debate over who gets to lay claim to the artifact's wikipedia page may be fun for you but people like action.

You are more than welcome to play La mulana to find out what tomb raider would be without the guns.

 

[drakenabarion]

I am a fan of Tomb Raider from the days where she controlled like a truck and I still am now. I am 100% certain that her tits are the last thing to make me want to play the game. I find it annoying to hear people say that people only play the game for her body...

Maybe her double D's don't matter very much anymore, but they undoubtedly played a large role in making the name 'Lara Croft' as popular as it has become. There's still plenty of sexy in the newer games. If they replaced Lara with a man for instance, he wouldn't be known any more than Nathan Drake is.

Lara was originally going to be male. They changed it so that it wouldn't be too much of a Indiana Jones rip off. Still, there was little to be attractive: "Oh look at my beautiful sexy pyramids!". Also, at that time, there was plenty of sexy main characters but I can hardly remember them.

 

[atol]

Lara was originally going to be male. They changed it so that it wouldn't be too much of a Indiana Jones rip off. Still, there was little to be attractive: "Oh look at my beautiful sexy pyramids!". Also, at that time, there was plenty of sexy main characters but I can hardly remember them.

Facecount has nothing to do with the controversy behind the concept, it scaled with the times. Look at the Atari porn games, trying to decipher the giant pixels was essentially more archaic than doodling on a piece of paper, yet their concept raised more than eyebrows.
People heard of and saw Lara's huge breasts and her name spread like wildfire to well outside of its genre. That attributed to most of the title's success, even if it's a good game underneath.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

I'm afraid you make the mistake of thinking that a personality for Lara Croft was anything other than an afterthought. Fans of Lara Croft are not in those games for any reason other than to watch her huge knockers and tight ass, so any perceivable personality she might have is simply tacked on to try to give some credibility to anyone who might come in contact with this game who's brain isn't literally poisoned by testosterone when she comes into view.

That is an absolutely hilarious scenario in this day and age when there are a great deal more supercilious bad-ass action girls to choose from. Most whom have better personalities, better looks and star in better games. But as has been said by so many others, Lara Croft and her developers are nothing if not oblivious to the fact that she's well overstayed her welcome. And since there are obviously people (read: 15 year olds) who are still willing to purchase this crap. I'd say it isn't going away any time soon.

You posted this hoping for flames.

I like how you added the phrase 'better looks' into your point about better female video game characters, well done for joining the '15 year olds' you generalized as the Tomb Raider fanbase.

I also liked how you described Lara, maybe the reason you chose these wordings is because of the way she 'poisoned your brain with testosterone'. When that first TR came out, I was 11 years old. So it wasn't all about the 'huge knockers and tight ass' for myself [what can I say, I was a late bloomer], it was a new exciting game world, the first '3D' world I'd had to explore. I enjoyed exploring every nook and cranny of these worlds, finding the secrets, and the general variation in the game areas. I enjoyed the fighting, the mythology and the cutscenes.

The game series and character have been ruined by the new storylines, call me old school, but I prefered how Tomb Raider was up til 3 or the Last Revelation. Then shit went downhill.

So, you are punishing what you perceive as trolling, with flaming? How juvenile. If you really thought I was fishing for flames and felt you were above my rhetoric, why did you insult me? Eh, who cares. The fact that you equate Lara Croft with some kind of symbol of feminism is a hallmark of your delusional viewpoints. Right up there with your denial that Tomb Raider was sold on anything but the sex appeal of it's main character.

I'll say this much though, It evolved into sex appeal, that's not how it started. The first TR was exactly as he said, she wasn't sold on the concept of sex appeal, she was sold on the idea of 3D worlds to explore. She was a strong female character without being "I can kick ass and be hawt at the same time".

But eventually the higher ups started upping the cup size in order to rake in some more cash, and the creator Toby Gard, distanced himself from Tomb Raider and tried to move toward other adventure games like Galleon (which took like 8 years to even get bloody released).

EDIT: They also asked him to implement a nude code into the first game, to which he pretty much told them to suck it, and flatly refused.

 

[sirdanrhodes]

Slightly off topic, but did anyone notice Lara became a murderer in 2 onward because everyone moaned there were too many puzzles in the first?

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

Slightly off topic, but did anyone notice Lara became a murderer in 2 onward because everyone moaned there were too many puzzles in the first?

Once Toby Gard distanced himself from Lara Croft (he was the creator of her after all) that gave the suits free reign over her, and they know what sells, sex and murder. So they gave her things to kill and a nude code. Yeah.