Lawful but Immoral
- Thread starter Badong
- Start date
Recommended Videos
I would disagree there is nothing inherently evil about capitalism itself. It's just certain segments who follow it to the exclusion of all else. I was going to say something like that, but it was too hard to qualify, so i will say almost anything done by a too aggressive marketing firm. I'm thinking about the 'Open Letter to EA Marketing' Extra Credits did just now.Liudeius said:
EDIT: haha my sentence is confusing. I am thinking of Extra Credits just now, I don't mean that they did the video just now. Please, people who search the forums for people to call out: it was JUST a confusing sentence, no need to yank your keyboard closer to you.
I would dismiss that out of hand though because a 2000 year old story book is not a good enough basis for morality (or pretty much anything) to me.darth gditch said:
Lest we forget that 'basic Christian morality' also does not prohibit slavery, and encourages the oppression of women and homosexuals. If those bits can be thrown out, then so can the parts about keeping your body 'pure' or whatever it says.
Would I want it? No of course not, but I will have raised my hypothetical future children well and I doubt that it would happen. In any case I certainly wouldn't want it to be illegal, if my hypothetical future child wants to do heroin once he's old enough to fully understand the issues surrounding it then he'd be well within his rights to do so imo. Libertarianism ftw.dfphetteplace said:
There is no need to assume my tone as arrogant, only confident. I have spent years contemplating the faults of the society we live in. With an objective perspective it is easy to see that the world we live in is wrong. Any laws conserving this society will then be wrong. Since most laws are made for this society, and intended to preserve it, most laws will then be wrong.rossatdi said:
Rights and wrongs are always compared to their alternatives, as long as there is no lack of basic reason (which there is in a wrong world, but that is not the point of this section). And you will just have to trust me that I have found alternatives and potential for alternatives in many cases, unless you wish for me to spend much of mine and your time explaining many of the cases where there are clear alternatives to what society today (included its laws) bind us to doing the wrong way.
I call bullshit. No one in their right mind would want to have their child do heroin whether they understand what it is going to do or not.flamingjimmy said:
Assuming the hammer and sickle is a symbol of the revolutionary soviet ideology is ignorant. The hammer and sickle is the symbol of the unification of the factory worker and the farmer, the two symbolic necessities of society. What this is when expanded is the economic unification of all individuals.rossatdi said:
You want concrete examples? They will branch out into questions and answers and we will have spent so much time to little ends.
1) Intellectual property - limits the distribution of infinite resource to achieve profit.
2) Capitalist ventures - treating currency as a resource of its own, severely limiting the ability for us to use currency as a tool and not only being burdened by it.
3) Crime and punishment - Humans are treated as animals and are trained as such, a symptom of the fact that the vast majority of people exist in a twilight between human and animal.
4) Limited personal freedom - As above, humans are seen as animals and can then not be treated as humans. Sometimes even heavily animalized humans have the ability to control other animalized humans (drug laws, gay marriage restrictions, religion. All these problems are from today's USA, there are many more from the past).
It is so easy for me to just go on criticizing the world. You should just have trusted me. What I rather try to do is find other individuals who lean more towards human than animal. It is hard to save the world, and I can't do it alone. I fear I might be wasting my time with you, prove me wrong and I will be glad.
You want concrete examples? They will branch out into questions and answers and we will have spent so much time to little ends.Kair said:
1) Intellectual property - limits the distribution of infinite resource to achieve profit.
[/quote]
You mean the right for artist to profit from their work? Seems reasonable to me.
Marx understood and praised the power of free moving capital to drive growth. Its probably gotten out of control but the concept is in a non-controlled economy.
Come again? Humans are animals - any assertion otherwise is ridiculous.
What on earth is an animalised human? Are you drug use/gay marriage/religion are symptoms of being animals or humans?
Yeah, Ciggarettes (Yes, I did spell that wrong) and drugs are completely harmless... Unless you count second-hand smoke.
Or Drugged out folks going completely bonkers and, say, killing someone.
Or going for a night on the town, taking a drug or so for recreational purposes (or whatever,) having a jolly time, driving back to their flat, still drugged out, and killing someone (Or themselves, but that's free choice, so whatever there.)
Though, I suppose those last two could also happen while drunk, or incredibly angry, or distracted (the last one), or just incredibly stupid (also the last one. Unless they're really clumsy too, but whatever). So there's that.
Legalizing drugs is a tricky buisness (ooh, just thought of another one, giving others drugs without their knowledge and royally fusking them up,) balance between freedom of choice to fusk (Thank you A Bit of Fry and Laurie,) yourself up as much as you like and harming others without really intending to. Overwhelming paranoia versus overwhelming confidence in mankind, really. Both of which are rather daft. But, hey, this is legality we're talking about, right? Ruling through generalizations (Spelt wrong too)!
Anyway, there's also Drug Trade, Black Market, the hundreds (well, probably not, but still,) of unintended side effects of things like this to consider too.
So it's a complicated bit of philosophization! Hope something in here (somewhere in the pages of responses,) will help you out, good luck, hope you're getting paid for this, have a good non-denomination-specific winter holiday, cheers.
Or Drugged out folks going completely bonkers and, say, killing someone.
Or going for a night on the town, taking a drug or so for recreational purposes (or whatever,) having a jolly time, driving back to their flat, still drugged out, and killing someone (Or themselves, but that's free choice, so whatever there.)
Though, I suppose those last two could also happen while drunk, or incredibly angry, or distracted (the last one), or just incredibly stupid (also the last one. Unless they're really clumsy too, but whatever). So there's that.
Legalizing drugs is a tricky buisness (ooh, just thought of another one, giving others drugs without their knowledge and royally fusking them up,) balance between freedom of choice to fusk (Thank you A Bit of Fry and Laurie,) yourself up as much as you like and harming others without really intending to. Overwhelming paranoia versus overwhelming confidence in mankind, really. Both of which are rather daft. But, hey, this is legality we're talking about, right? Ruling through generalizations (Spelt wrong too)!
Anyway, there's also Drug Trade, Black Market, the hundreds (well, probably not, but still,) of unintended side effects of things like this to consider too.
So it's a complicated bit of philosophization! Hope something in here (somewhere in the pages of responses,) will help you out, good luck, hope you're getting paid for this, have a good non-denomination-specific winter holiday, cheers.
I agree... As long as I understand your wording properly.intheweeds said:
I was just generalizing, not actually trying to make a statement about capitalism, or even corporations, as a whole. I said it with the assumption that people would realize that I wasn't saying literally everything done by corporations is wrong, just most of the things you hear about in the news. Swindling, bribing, irresponsible business practices, etc.
Of course there is plenty that corporations are good for as well, just too many greedy people heading corporations.
You don't know what I have seen, and to assume that everyone on hallucinogens will just set down and have a good trip is plain stupid.Blue_vision said:
I have had to forcibly restrain someone who was on a hallucinogen because he thought that the people he saw were monsters trying to hurt him. He broke one person's nose and knocked another unconscious.
I have also heard the horror stories about people trying to drive while on them.
So yea, you could say I feel people on hallucinogens pose a threat to those around them. However, I believe you are mixing the two different parts of my post. The drug part had nothing to do with the imminent danger portion of my post.
E is a hallucinogen as "This illegal drug, which has both stimulant and psychedelic properties, is often taken for the feelings of well-being, stimulation, and the distortions in time and sensory perceptions that it produces." -NIDA Research Reportcaptainfluoxetine said:
http://www.drugabuse.gov/ResearchReports/MDMA/default.html
There is the same link on the DEA's site as well.
Since the original question was, in my reading, about things which are NOT prohibited by law but ARE prohibited by morality, I'll address that. It seems that most posters are addressing the opposite, activities that are morally neutral or good, but prohibited by law.
There are hundreds of things which are immoral but not illegal. It's hard to list them all. For one thing, different things are illegal in different states/countries/Federation planets. For another thing, I would say there are two categories within this set: Things that are immoral and SHOULD be illegal, because they are harmful to society or individuals, and things which are immoral and SHOULD NOT be illegal, primarily because to prosecute them would be sufficiently onerous as to approach absurdity.
As an example of the second, I put forward lying. Lying is immoral, but in most circumstances, not illegal. But it is so common and would be so difficult to catch/prove, that greater evil would be done attempting to criminalize it than leaving it "legal". Similarly, many forms of sexual immorality, most of which I won't go into for fear that the internet flames will sear my very eyes, and I shall never open them again save to weep.
Speaking of saying things that will get me flamed: abortion is an example of the first category. Most of the world legalizes the practice of killing an unborn human, many places with restrictions, others without. While most here would probably disagree with me in general, consider that. In many places, including my own country and state, a medically viable child can be killed. That is immoral. If that's still not heinous enough to prick your seared conscience, consider that, in past ages, flat out infanticide was not only legal, but sometimes compulsory.
Or adultery. Now this one is often illegal on the books, but almost never enforced in the West. Again, many people have different sexual ethics, but I contend that when you promise to remain with and bond with one person, and then the state recognizes that promise and confers benefits upon you based on that promise, then the state has a legitimate interest in punishing your breach of that promise.
Anyway, that should be enough to get me in trouble.
And now, a bit of fun...
Keep it up, comrade. The Kwisatz Haderach cannot be far away!
There are hundreds of things which are immoral but not illegal. It's hard to list them all. For one thing, different things are illegal in different states/countries/Federation planets. For another thing, I would say there are two categories within this set: Things that are immoral and SHOULD be illegal, because they are harmful to society or individuals, and things which are immoral and SHOULD NOT be illegal, primarily because to prosecute them would be sufficiently onerous as to approach absurdity.
As an example of the second, I put forward lying. Lying is immoral, but in most circumstances, not illegal. But it is so common and would be so difficult to catch/prove, that greater evil would be done attempting to criminalize it than leaving it "legal". Similarly, many forms of sexual immorality, most of which I won't go into for fear that the internet flames will sear my very eyes, and I shall never open them again save to weep.
Speaking of saying things that will get me flamed: abortion is an example of the first category. Most of the world legalizes the practice of killing an unborn human, many places with restrictions, others without. While most here would probably disagree with me in general, consider that. In many places, including my own country and state, a medically viable child can be killed. That is immoral. If that's still not heinous enough to prick your seared conscience, consider that, in past ages, flat out infanticide was not only legal, but sometimes compulsory.
Or adultery. Now this one is often illegal on the books, but almost never enforced in the West. Again, many people have different sexual ethics, but I contend that when you promise to remain with and bond with one person, and then the state recognizes that promise and confers benefits upon you based on that promise, then the state has a legitimate interest in punishing your breach of that promise.
Anyway, that should be enough to get me in trouble.
And now, a bit of fun...
I hold at your neck the gom jabbar, the high-handed enemy!Kair said:
Keep it up, comrade. The Kwisatz Haderach cannot be far away!