Left 4 Dead...

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milskidasith

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Does anybody else think this looks totally awesome? The trailers they released, the new dynamic spawn system, the fact that it actually encourages teamwork to the point of being brutally slaughtered if you don't (a good thing, in my opinion), the intense atmosphere, the fact that it's made by Valve...

It just looks completly amazing, and I REALLY want to buy it ASAP. Anybody else considering buying it?
 

HSIAMetalKing

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I'm certainly looking forward to it.

(Turns out so are[link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.60238#466537]
all[/link][link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.60235#466478]
these[/link]
people.)

It sounds like just my kind of game.
 

milskidasith

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I didn't see any threads of the first page, so I assumed it was safe to create my own.

Anyway, I wonder if we could team up when it comes out? Kick some zombie ass!

Also, according to the people at Valve in one of their videos, even THEY still only win 25% of the time.

This game sounds like it will be really hard. And not [link]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard"Nintendo Hard"[/link], but real, "the game just kicks your ass that bad", hard.
 

milskidasith

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Zombies don't seem to be too ridiculously overpowered INDIVIDUALLY. Grabbing people by the toungue, yeah, but it seems like a human can easily beat the crap out of the zombies. The zombies themselves win by brute force, but a clever player controlled zombie can probably make things worse for the humans.

Also, you have to have a human game going to have zombies join in (Inferred from a video), and I assume you can turn off zombie join ins. So you still NEED humans to play as a zombie (and possibly a full cast of humans, also an inference).
 

alucard_101

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left-4-dead is awesome, but it sucks that they announced its not gunna be for ps3, so they're gunna force me to get a gold xbox-live account, or get a VERY new PC, which sux, but it well still be the best co-op game ever made in my opinion, and the zombies, some are WAY overpowered if youv'e read the wikipedia on the game, the tank, for instance is massive, nearly unstoppable, and goes crazy if your'e afc/afk for too long, and the scout zombies, jump like, 3 stories in the air and land on you if they charge the jump button long enough, and they got the tongue thing goin, but if you be a normal zombie, youre not too powerful, and you can't even be a witch, only fight them, aqnd did i remember to mention that you can't choose your zombie class, they're random, and when the whole ARMY of zombies shows up at EVERY "safe"house is gunna be nearly impossible, other than that it's gunna be the best co-op based game ever made
 

milskidasith

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Not according to the desciptions I've seen. Here's how I think it goes down - a Boomer charges at the humans and vomits. Many zombies come. The humans die.
I'm pretty sure a simple cooldown would suffice for that. And Vomit attracts all zombies to one human, so with a full team all you would have to do is cover the one person and shoot the crap out of the boomer.

A Smoker waits in the shadows, and uses its tongue to strangle people, just like Jackie Estacado uses his tentacles in The Darkness. If they try and finsd him, he releases a smokescreen, and in the confusion the humans are as likely to shoot each other as they are the Smoker. Meanwhile, it strikes without mercy. The Humans die.
Once again, you assume that the zombies can constantly use their abilities. I admit that might be somewhat problematic, but I seriously doubt one zombie who, from the videos, dies fairly quickly when getting shot while strangling somebody and can only attack one person at a time (with the strangling) is that much of a problem.

The Tank throws a fucking car at the humans, they all die.
Yes, because we all know that an intelligent team of humans will just STAND STILL while a car flies towards them. Oh yeah, and they always move together within a car length apart. Maybe the tank could kill people with flying cars, but that doesn't seem any stronger than what tanks can do with the AI. It isn't that hard to make a big thing throw the nearest car, is it? If that was a balance problem, which I doubt it would be (this is Valve, after all) it wouldn't matter if a player was controlling it, because the intelligence needed to play a slower moving behemoth who throws stuff isn't that far beyond current AI.

You see where I'm going with this? The game is always set at night, so the humans can't see the zombies (until its too late) while the zombies have night vision, and a sort of human tracking sense.
Humans can do that too. Gun flashes light up the entire area, and flashlights give more than enough range. If you get ambushed from behind by a human player, yeah, you might take some hits, but there are only 4 zombie players at once and that would require NOBODY watching the groups back, at all.

To the question: Yes, I see where you are going. You are assuming the zombies are all powerful and can't be killed due to their abilities (which would be a problem in BOTH modes, not just multiplayer), humans are all idiots who get ambushed and stay within the range of a car together when they KNOW there is a car throwing behemoth in front of them, zombies have no cooldown on their abilities, and basically you just had the idea "this might be overpowered," put on a nice suit of anti-logic armor, and went with the idea like a forum troll or an obssessed fanfic writer defending his work. Also, humans can see other humans as well, FYI.

Think about it: Valve is KNOWN for designing incredibly balanced games. The zombies as players don't have that much of an advantage. Maybe you might get ambushed more often, but that requires you to be either extremely bad with timing or just have an idiotic group in the first place. Maybe the player zombies might put forth a bit of a better fight. But until Valve says that the zombies can use their abilities as much as they want and say that they designed comboes that were clearly broken to be used by player zombies, you are just taking a possibility and arguing it as a full on fact with little knowledge of the actual zombie mode playing game mechanics at this point, seeing as they haven't been officially released. You also fail to assume that, even if zombie players had a significant impact on difficulty, or even a minor one, the spawn system would COMPENSATE. Perhaps there wouldn't BE so many super zombies for people to play as.

[quoteIn my opinion allowing players to choose to play as Zombies is a huge mistake, because the traditional zombie genre has the zombies with the upper hand by default.[/quote]

Are you insane? Zombies NEVER have the upper hand individually. It's 4 player humans against 4 player zombies, and, save the tank, none of them really look like they have the strength to beat a player in one on one combat. All zombies have are numbers, and having a few somewhat smarter zombies probably won't break an experience already designed to make the game easier or harder for you. I also doubt that you can just choose which zombie you play as, because nobody is stupid enough to give somebody an unlimited supply of tanks in a game that otherwise throws them at you only when you do well or it feels like being tricky.

And that was what I was saying - since no-one is likely to choose the humans, and you need humans to start that versus thing, that mode is inherently flawed. You can force people into playing as humans, but when someone gets forced into the ***** team, they're likely to just quit (wouldn't you? You're making others experience better, yes, byut at the cost of your own experience)
Because we all know that EVERYBODY wants to play the easier mode, even though it sacrafices the atmosphere and the main aspect of the game for a nice side mode where you can potentially get shot up by your friends. And that's under the assumption (which you can't back up) that the game would be hideously unbalanced (by Valve, no less).
 

Rankaratar

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Indigo_Dingo post=9.69147.651287 said:
Not according to the desciptions I've seen. Here's how I think it goes down - a Boomer charges at the humans and vomits. Many zombies come. The humans die. A Smoker waits in the shadows, and uses its tongue to strangle people, just like Jackie Estacado uses his tentacles in The Darkness. If they try and finsd him, he releases a smokescreen, and in the confusion the humans are as likely to shoot each other as they are the Smoker. Meanwhile, it strikes without mercy. The Humans die. The Tank throws a fucking car at the humans, they all die. You see where I'm going with this? The game is always set at night, so the humans can't see the zombies (until its too late) while the zombies have night vision, and a sort of human tracking sense.In my opinion allowing players to choose to play as Zombies is a huge mistake, because the traditional zombie genre has the zombies with the upper hand by default.

And that was what I was saying - since no-one is likely to choose the humans, and you need humans to start that versus thing, that mode is inherently flawed. You can force people into playing as humans, but when someone gets forced into the ***** team, they're likely to just quit (wouldn't you? You're making others experience better, yes, byut at the cost of your own experience)
Want an example of a game where they balanced humans and the cool creature option?

Alien vs Predator
1 and 2

The aliens are fast, heat sense, can climb on walls and if they get close, you're screwed. But the humans have tracking, the best weapons and the Exosuit which pwns. Preds have invisibility, can see any race (not at the same time though) and lethal close combat weapons, but they are weak and have really bad guns.

Perhaps Left 4 Dead can take a page from them?
 

sneakypenguin

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I think your(Indigo_dingo) not realizing the balance that i'm sure valve has put into the game they are a smart developer they wouldn't release a broken game where humans have no chance. Plus even if zombies are overpowered there are many that would enjoy the challenge and reward that comes from being the underdog. Also gameplay demos i've seen appear to be pretty even it just seems to require some organization on the human side rather than pulling a lone wolf type thing.
 

Ultrajoe

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Apr 24, 2008
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just for the damn hype the supposedly pure valve is stirring up with a big stick, i'm going to beat it on my own just to spite valves face.

If 4 people can do it, one Utra Joe can.

Ok, so maybe not me, but i bet there's a solo victory within a week.
 

Spierek

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Aug 17, 2008
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milskidasith post=9.69147.651386 said:
Think about it: Valve is KNOWN for designing incredibly balanced games.
True, but Valve isn't making this game. L4D is created by Turtle Rock, who was recently absorbed by Valve. But they make this game, Valve only gives them hints, and helps with using Source. And also with distribution of this game.

As for me - I'm waiting for this game. Fast zombie killing action - that's what I needed ^^
 

alucard_101

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yes, there well be single player (if you haven't figured that one out yet) and there well be AI-controlled team-mates in story, not online, (just covering everything this topic has been about for those of you who can't figure it out) can be any zombie class except witch, and if you become a normal, no special abilities, boring old romero zombie, you just run to the humans to try to cause as much damage as possible in the short time you well be alive before you get meleed or shot at least once in the head, and if you get to be a tank, LUCKY YOU, your best bet is to just stand there until the AI take over and ou watch the show, and i don't think the cars are going to be thrown, just the alarms set off so the AI zombies are drawn to it like fat kids to a bakery, and the assassin-like jumping zombies are just altair-turned zombie, which is pretty hardcore, and you land on the people and eat their faces, the boomer, there is no vomiting with them, thats with the normal zombies, they just go boom whenever shot, like those biggun flood that spawn the little spider-like things in halo, only in this, they shoot infectious fluid that hurts you.



sorry, about that, i just wanted to tell those people who don't know yet about the abilities of all the zombie classes, it makes me feel like i know more than most people, but not good knowledge, anyway, moving on, game is going to pwn, and yes, i know about the resistance2 co-op, its good, but nothing that hasn't been done before(halo3), the co-op in this is going to be much, much better and is the best zombie game ever made, and come to think of it, if this game succeeds even close to halo, they well probably make a movie, trying to get in on the success, and well have an epic fail, probably because it's going to be by Uwe Bowle, like every other game based movie.

sorry, lost my trail of thought, anyway game=PWN co-op=PWN zombies=PWN everything about this game=pwn thats all i have tp say about that
 

Spierek

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alucard_101 post=9.69147.651780 said:
if this game succeeds even close to halo, they well probably make a movie, trying to get in on the success, and well have an epic fail, probably because it's going to be by Uwe Bowle, like every other game based movie.
You, you who lost faith in Valve - OI! Wake up!

How can you think, that they'll sell any of their titles to Boll? If they wanted to, there would be HL, HL2 and Episodes movies on screen :p