Lesbian Marriage Too Tough For Batwoman, Authors Leave

[Ickorus]

Seriously people?

Everyone knows controversy sells and the people in charge of DC probably know it better than most, I'd bet anything that this is a little less black and white than DC being a bunch of homophobes.

Controversy sells? I'm not so sure about that. Who, exactly, is going to go out and buy the comics from this? Firstly, you have people like me... I'd just started reading Batgirl, and was looking at starting Batwoman, having heard that it was really damn good. No chance of that now. Secondly, you have people who are anti-gay-marriage, who... still aren't going to buy it because the main character isn't getting any less lesbian from this. Who is this controversy selling to?

Edit:

Anyone who thinks that any iteration of Batman (of either gender) getting married is a good idea, shouldn't be writing Batman.

You realize that Batwoman has no relation to Batman other than thematic appearance, right? She's not a gender-swap.

Controversy = publicity = sales

Admittedly I'm simplifying things a bit but the gist of it is that it is a sometimes risky maneuver that gets lots of publicity with the potential of garnering a lot more interest in the comic, in this case it wouldn't be particularly risky either since they would have already weeded out most of the people that would take exception to gay marriage by the character already being gay.

I'd love to write a longer and more informative post but I'm typing on my phone and it is a rather time consuming process.

 

[PapstJL4U]

Good

Anyone who thinks that any iteration of Batman (of either gender) getting married is a good idea, shouldn't be writing Batman.

Batman is married to the job. Crime fighting is his passion not women. Any Female version of Batman should reflect this. She needs to be dark, smart, driven and strong. But most of all clear in her intent, she needs to focus on who she is (A Crime Fighter).

Batman sort of has a thing for Catwoman and Ra's AL Ghul's daughter, but he hasn't married them. He gets Talia pregnant but leaves her to raise the kid herself.

Just no. A bat marriage is a dumb idea. It just seems like some kind of controversy ploy to sell a few copies.

And your comments look like you never read one of the Batwoman Comic from Rucka and William. Batwoman is NOT Batman, her maybe spouse has a dangerous job herself and even her whole family is 24/7 in danger. Its just idiotic to be so one dimensional. The batverse is big and the different bat-persons should explore different aspects.
In a world where Batpeople survive explosions and houses comming down is at least one kevlar west for the spouse of the hero.

 

[A Distant Star]

Was Batwoman married in the old continuity? It might be simply that DC didn't want to have such a permanent move made with the character. I mean they mad Alan Scott gay in the New 52 so I'm finding it hard to believe they're a bunch of raging homophobes. So before we break out the torches and pitch forks can we at least consider for a second that this might have to do with story issues. They also broke up Superman and Lois Lane. Remember when Spidey got married? Pretty awful. DC could just be trying to avoid that.

According the JH Williams III this is indeed why the move was made.

So it seems to be less an issue of homophobia and more an issue of over reaching editorial control.

 

[marscentral]

I'm pretty sure this is more about marriage and divorce then them being lesbians. Even though married Spider-man was working fine, Marvel hated his marriage and most of their silly choices with him came from that, all because they couldn't just have him divorce MJ. DC didn't want Superman married, even though that was also fine, but at least lived with it until they could easily retcon it without an awful OMD story. If future writers wanted to give Batwoman a new love interest, they'd be in the same predicament.

I get that, but in the New 52 we've seen Barbara Gordon out of a wheel-chair for the first time in decades. And Batwoman has been an on-off thing for most of her existence, being re-introduced and re-invented as whoever was writing saw fit. Also, it's hard to justify decisions which MAY affect future writers when the same decisions cost you your CURRENT writers (and artist) who have turned the series into a highly acclaimed work.

What it comes down to is this: Would anyone who is currently invested in the character and series mind if Kate got married, so long as it was handled with the care that the series has been shown to date? I'm pretty sure the answer is 'no'.

I agree with you, as I said, I thought Spider-man and Superman's marriages were fine. As someone who is following Batwoman, it would be nice to see her get some happiness and see where that all goes. I'm just explaining their crazy reasoning.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

sensationalist title.

they arent against the marriage, they are tired to have to change a years worth of material only because the publisher wants to spontaniously throw gay marriage scenes "just cause".

and its understandable.

I'd make a comment about how Wonder Woman should be bisexual (for various reason)..

and those reasons are?
besides having grown up on an island full of woman and fan wish fullfillment that they are all lesbians.

I suggest you do a little research into the life of William Moulton Marston, the creator of Wonder woman and then you may gain some insight into Bara_no_Hime's reasoning.

i have.
i know that he was a feminist that said that the female sex was the superior sex and he also had some bdsm fetish which he reflected into his comics by having wonder woman tied with some ropes and spanked etc. suspiciously often.

Wonder Woman was based on his mistress. His mistress which he "shared" with his wife, if I remember correctly.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Don't want to rock the boat now do we? That would be bad for sales.

Wait. What? Its 2013? Sorry, I was in my time capsule for a bit. Thought it was the 70's for awhile.

Jeez...

Well, kudos to the artists for recognizing what bullshit the reasoning for messing with years of development was and walking. I certainly hope they find more work in the industry and eventually get thanked for taking the stand.

 

[Wilco86]

How many DC writers know how to write married crime fighters, or a crime fighter who is married?

It simply be that so many comic book writers don't know how to write good married characters, and so DC wouldn't be able to get anyone to write for the book after they left in the future. They would have reboot Batwoman after this run.

So no need to challenge the writers? Who knows what greatness could have come out of it, and now they don't even try. What if Alan Moore had thought "Hmm, this Watchmen seems too original and unique, better axe that and make a normal superhero story..."? DC could have given the marriage a try, as it's sure as hell that Batman won't do it.

Also, DC might be worried how a largley teen audience would react to stories about a married couple. It reduces the relatability of the character. Though, I don't know what demographic Batwoman is targetting.

Teens are stupid. If I could dictate, every teen would mandatorily play Planescape: Torment instead of Call of Duties and all that crap. Also, is it good for teens to learn that every relationship makes one of the participants to end up dead and inside the refridgerator?

 

[Psychobabble]

sensationalist title.

they arent against the marriage, they are tired to have to change a years worth of material only because the publisher wants to spontaniously throw gay marriage scenes "just cause".

and its understandable.

I'd make a comment about how Wonder Woman should be bisexual (for various reason)..

and those reasons are?
besides having grown up on an island full of woman and fan wish fullfillment that they are all lesbians.

I suggest you do a little research into the life of William Moulton Marston, the creator of Wonder woman and then you may gain some insight into Bara_no_Hime's reasoning.

i have.
i know that he was a feminist that said that the female sex was the superior sex and he also had some bdsm fetish which he reflected into his comics by having wonder woman tied with some ropes and spanked etc. suspiciously often.

Wonder Woman was based on his mistress. His mistress which he "shared" with his wife, if I remember correctly.

I'm not sure mistress is the proper term. They were all involved in a consensual three-way relationship and both women help to co-create the character.

As to the whole BSDM fetish it seems Joe Shuster the co-creator of Superman had one as well.

 

[verdant monkai]

The ever shifting Batman continuity is getting difficult to keep up with. So has it been retconned that Batman knew about the kid, but left him in Talia's care? Also, is this the deceased Damian Wayne/Robin we are talking about?

Dude as far as I know Damian is alive... but as you said it is really tangled as of late.

Well Damian was raised by Talia as an assassin then he became Grayson Batman's sidekick. The two have a constant hilarious
debate over whether killing is a good idea or not.

 

[verdant monkai]

By this logic I assume any and all superheroes and superheroines who, upon receiving their powers, don't immediately sever all ties with everyone they've ever cared about are irresponsible. Significant others are a popular target, but last I checked Aunt May was constantly tossed about, threatened, and killed, and yet she never got it on with Peter.

Not outside of some truly disturbing fanfics, anyway.

The idea that superheroes/heroines can't have significant people in their lives is, yes, stupid. It leads to characters who go through the same old "I want, but I can't, but I want!" with potential partners, over and over, until you want to scream Chinese curses at the top of your lungs and wedgie Batman's emo ass to kingdom come.

Maybe it's irresponsible to have loved ones if you have a target on your back, but guess what? Most superheroes/heroines are humans. Humans are flawed. We're not rational beings, and sorry, but this constant "setting the one I love aside only to grab the next piece of tail that heads my direction" is fucking annoying.

Well I'm glad you arent writing Batman comics.

The reason Batman stands up to villains like Darksied and Lobo, and stands shoulder to shoulder with wonder woman and superman, is because he is damn near perfect. He is the best example of a human being in DC comics, and he has devoted himself solely to fighting evil. He is a human and ultimately flawed (like his damaged childhood and revenge issues) but rationality isn't one of his flaws, so I dont know where your going with that part of your argument. He also doesnt grab much tail at all... he sort of has no sex drive... other than as Bruce Wayne which is a facade. You seem to know Spiderman but have you ever read a Batman comic? because the Batmen we both know seem vastly different.

We can argue this again and again but marriage doesn't fit in with the Batman I know, and I dont think it fits Batwoman either. I accept you do and we'll have to agree to disagree.

Others have been telling me Batwoman is her own character and not Batman! To that I say why not make Crocodile woman or something? As I said the point of putting a character through the gender bender is to see what the difference in sex affects, not change the fundamental things which make up the character (like Batmans all consuming need for revenge on crime). But yeah if you guys think Batwoman being different is fine, then I wont hate you for it. We all have different opinions and I'm only prepared to debate Batmans love life to a certain extent.

 

[verdant monkai]

Dont know if you are agreeing with me or not so... YES I agree.

You agree that you're making a series of arbitrary excuses?

Well, that was the most straightforward argument I've ever had.

Thank you and good day.

Oh so that paragraph with no bullet points was your summary of my argument? ...right?

...uh yeah ok you seem like lovley person! So take the victory home and enjoy! you earned it.

 

[oreso]

Bha.
Show me a male gay marriage with a major superhero, THEN I will be impressed.

Well, they're not too major, but I do love Apollo and Midnighter's relationship. [http://www.thefanboyseo.com/2012/05/people-tend-to-forget-about-apollo-and.html]

Wether they do the Batwoman lesbian marriage or not... it's still fanservice for males.

Seems like a lose-lose for writers. Not to mention you're excluding any lesbian readers who might enjoy that fanservice too.

Include lesbianism: Just pandering to pensises hur-hur.
Not include lesbianism: Just keeping LGBT down!

I think we're gonna have to be a bit more open if we're gonna encourage writers to experiment. Being hypercritical is not always constructive, and we might sometimes be projecting our own prejudices too.

Speaking personally, I've only read a couple of issues of Batwoman, but it didn't seem particularly fanservice-y. And even if it was, that doesn't stop it from being a decent comic with a LGBT character. The Authority had plenty of fanservice.