Less and less PC version of games
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And another conversation about piracy has devolved into the usual talking points. We really need some form of sticky listing talking points by number.
I will say this:
A pirated copy does not equal lost sales and even if a game is pirated a million times that does not mean you just lost a million customers. In fact, you lost zero customers.
This argument is just plain wrong. I know this both from personal experience as well as from the usual sources that everyone always quotes.
If a game is pirated a million times, then it is true that this does not equal a million lost sales. However, it is not true that this represents a loss of zero sales. That's like saying that shoplifters cost a store zero money because they weren't planning on buying what they were stealing anyway. Some would skip on the game if they couldn't pirate it. Others would buy it if they couldn't pirate it. If a million copies have been pirated, then the number of lost sales is between 0 and 1 million. Where you stand on how much of a problem piracy is will usually be determined by how your personal situation is affected by it.
I will say this:
A pirated copy does not equal lost sales and even if a game is pirated a million times that does not mean you just lost a million customers. In fact, you lost zero customers.
This argument is just plain wrong. I know this both from personal experience as well as from the usual sources that everyone always quotes.
If a game is pirated a million times, then it is true that this does not equal a million lost sales. However, it is not true that this represents a loss of zero sales. That's like saying that shoplifters cost a store zero money because they weren't planning on buying what they were stealing anyway. Some would skip on the game if they couldn't pirate it. Others would buy it if they couldn't pirate it. If a million copies have been pirated, then the number of lost sales is between 0 and 1 million. Where you stand on how much of a problem piracy is will usually be determined by how your personal situation is affected by it.
I, seriously, believe that a mouse and a keyboard are an infinitely more effective controller than a controller for a console. But, I play only RPGs, mostly, and those will always be on the PC. I am content.
I wish this were possible. Imagine how much harder the industry would try to make really good games if we could just return it within like 14 days or something. I know a couple of people who buy used just because GameStop has a return policy like this.Pandabearparade said:
OT: I am happy with the selection that comes out on PC. Games like L.A. Noire would be a game I would play on the console and never on a PC. Same with racing games. Pretty much RTS and FPS are what I do on PC.
You were implying all pirates did so because of frugality. I'm saying you don't know that. You're saying I can't prove that you don't know. But you're admitting that no one knows. So,... what's your point?Glademaster said:
Also, I'd bet my life savings that one torrent user can reach more potential pirates than one modder in a brick and mortar building. You can argue against that point, but pretty much every internet business model in the world would stand against your argument.
And... one million? Yes. I'm going to say that there are more than one million PC pirates. I'm pretty comfortable with stating that confidently.
I think the reason Rockstar have abandoned the PC is because of the reception of the GTA IV port. On release it was a nightmare, it didn't work on ATI cards and it had multiple performance problems. Plus the game wasn't well loved by a lot of people.
All patched up, it is a good port. You can run it "console quality" on a pretty basic PC but with a decent machine it flies. However it took them a good six months to get it working well. The grief Rockstar caused themselves with their initial shoddy implementation seems to have left them deciding that it just isn't worth it to port future games to PC. Even though RDR and LA Noir use the same engine as GTA IV they just seem a little work shy. It is a shame because I would like to play RDR and LA Noir but I can't use a controller and don't own a console.
All patched up, it is a good port. You can run it "console quality" on a pretty basic PC but with a decent machine it flies. However it took them a good six months to get it working well. The grief Rockstar caused themselves with their initial shoddy implementation seems to have left them deciding that it just isn't worth it to port future games to PC. Even though RDR and LA Noir use the same engine as GTA IV they just seem a little work shy. It is a shame because I would like to play RDR and LA Noir but I can't use a controller and don't own a console.
It comes and goes. Often developers and publishers simply don't want to port to another platform, whether it be another console or the PC, for whatever reason. Perhaps they don't feel it would be a good investment return, perhaps they don't feel the game suits that market, or they just plain don't have the manpower.
Piracy is a pain in the ass, and one which I definitely see as PC gamings major gangrenous seeping wound. But it's far from a fatal one. The PC platform often has poor retail sales in comparison to the consoles, especially at launch, but makes up for it with a longer shelf life expectancy, lack of licensing fees, and most recently strong online sales. In most cases that's more than enough to turn a respectable profit and that's why PC ports are so common in most cases.
Still, developing a PC port isn't as easy as it sounds when a game has been built from the ground up with consoles in mind. Trying to ensure a game will work on the vast catalogue of hardware configurations out there is a pain and can often get costly. Often people simply don't feel it's worth the effort. Sad, but true.
The PC can't match all these consoles, no. But it's strong enough to stand its own as an equal platform against any other.
Link for reference if you think I'm making these things up.
Companies such as Nvidia, ATI and the like have also been seeing a steady increase in sales towards their gaming markets.
All that said, PC gaming is also far from the monolith it used to be. At one point I'd have said if you weren't a PC gamer, you were missing out on the best the medium had to offer. Nowadays it's more a preference I find. There are still a great number of amazing PC exclusives, but by and large the golden age seems to be over.
Is piracy to blame? Not entirely, not by any stretch. But it certainly isn't helping things either.
Piracy is a pain in the ass, and one which I definitely see as PC gamings major gangrenous seeping wound. But it's far from a fatal one. The PC platform often has poor retail sales in comparison to the consoles, especially at launch, but makes up for it with a longer shelf life expectancy, lack of licensing fees, and most recently strong online sales. In most cases that's more than enough to turn a respectable profit and that's why PC ports are so common in most cases.
Still, developing a PC port isn't as easy as it sounds when a game has been built from the ground up with consoles in mind. Trying to ensure a game will work on the vast catalogue of hardware configurations out there is a pain and can often get costly. Often people simply don't feel it's worth the effort. Sad, but true.
I'm sorry, but that graph is simply untrue. Just as with consoles, the overall PC game sales can seen steady increase over the years as well. Last year in particular marked a steep rise actually, with online digital distribution contributing massively to the platforms profitability.pepitko said:You can't really find actual figures of pirated games on consoles vs the PC. But if I look at myself and my friends as an example, there is much less pirating on consoles and much more on PCs. IMO, to understand why developers consider consoles to be a priority, you need to look at sales volume of console games vs PC games and the picture is crystal clear.
The PC can't match all these consoles, no. But it's strong enough to stand its own as an equal platform against any other.
Link for reference if you think I'm making these things up.
Companies such as Nvidia, ATI and the like have also been seeing a steady increase in sales towards their gaming markets.
All that said, PC gaming is also far from the monolith it used to be. At one point I'd have said if you weren't a PC gamer, you were missing out on the best the medium had to offer. Nowadays it's more a preference I find. There are still a great number of amazing PC exclusives, but by and large the golden age seems to be over.
Is piracy to blame? Not entirely, not by any stretch. But it certainly isn't helping things either.
There have always been console only games. I personally don't enjoy rockstar titles (Red Dead Redemption was okay), so I really don't care. There's nothing to worry about.de5gravity said:I feel like we see less and less PC versions of games. Red Dead Rdemption doesn't look like it's getting a PC port, Fable skipped the 2nd one for some reason, and now LA Noire is console only.
Actually let's focus on LA Noire. Why do you think it's not getting a PC version? Are PC games really not that profitable anymore? Can we blame the people who pirate games for it? Does Rockstar not wanna give a cut of the profit to Steam, which looks like the best way to sell on PC nowadays? Or something else?
PS: why yes, I am considering getting a PS3 so I can play LA Noire...
Because making PC games is hard.
You make an xbox game, you're making it for one platform.
You make a PC game, you're making it for 100,000 platforms.
You make an xbox game, you're making it for one platform.
You make a PC game, you're making it for 100,000 platforms.
I myself dont give 2 hoots about la noir. looks boring to me and the trailers have done nothing but make me not want to play it.
PC games are just as profitable as in the past, as in just as. issue isnt piracy really but the developers pissing off the fanbase, console advertisements, and console makers making deals with developers to keeps the games on there console only and advertising its an exclusive. but then again we have about the same new AAA library every year.. and indie casual titles up the ass, and more free mods than you can shake yer wang at.
PC games have never had huge ad campaigns but console has. look at the console game ads like La Noir. its payed for by Sony to advertise the Sony console. theres been others over the years for nintendo and xbox but i cant think of any ad for a pc exclusive title shown on TV. thats a factor, console adverts to help sell the game. Thus advertised titles making it seem like we PC only have less.
as for piracy the numbers they get from torrent downloads is bullshit. the vast majority of torrents are repeated downloads because most of them are non working or there because its malware. then you have people that need a new torrent because the last one didnt finish before it was taken offline.. you know those slow connections and downloading 3-4 GB. so all that could be about half the supposed downloads. and then you have a shitton of downloads that just want to demo, and another shitton that already bought it but the DRM made it unplayable(2 games and like 30 torrents for me just to play 2 games i bought!).
PC games are just as profitable as in the past, as in just as. issue isnt piracy really but the developers pissing off the fanbase, console advertisements, and console makers making deals with developers to keeps the games on there console only and advertising its an exclusive. but then again we have about the same new AAA library every year.. and indie casual titles up the ass, and more free mods than you can shake yer wang at.
PC games have never had huge ad campaigns but console has. look at the console game ads like La Noir. its payed for by Sony to advertise the Sony console. theres been others over the years for nintendo and xbox but i cant think of any ad for a pc exclusive title shown on TV. thats a factor, console adverts to help sell the game. Thus advertised titles making it seem like we PC only have less.
as for piracy the numbers they get from torrent downloads is bullshit. the vast majority of torrents are repeated downloads because most of them are non working or there because its malware. then you have people that need a new torrent because the last one didnt finish before it was taken offline.. you know those slow connections and downloading 3-4 GB. so all that could be about half the supposed downloads. and then you have a shitton of downloads that just want to demo, and another shitton that already bought it but the DRM made it unplayable(2 games and like 30 torrents for me just to play 2 games i bought!).
Also, it doesn't help that the PC version was released 7 and a bit months after the console version. That sort of situation is going to have a detrimental effect on PC sales as just about anyone with a PC and current gen console who has an interest in the game is going to go with the MUCH earlier console release. This is certainly the case when the PC version isn't even announced until after console versions have launched.octafish said:
Another thing that didn't help GTA IV is that Rockstar came across as very grudging that they had to fix their broken game.
Because devs are lazy. Making a proper PC port takes a bit more than just 'few changes' in the code. You have re optimize a lot of stuff, make sure it uses the various hardware combinations, re-do the controls, allow for better use of available RAM and VRAM.
If you just make a crappy port the 'easy way' you get a subpar product that will be bashed by gamers and bring little to no profit due to it's short comings. Then there is also the fact that some types of games generally play better with console control schemes. Brawlers tend to feel really clunky with mouse/keyboard combo and not every PC gamer bothers with game pads.
As much as i can blame piracy for many things, it hardly is an actual reason for some games not being developed for PCs. It's a perfect excuse however since it has a nice ring to it and media like it.
When it comes to LA Noire and other recent Rockstar production - don't care. GTA stopped being appealing for me the moment it became 'serious' and 3d game and everything else just follows the scheme. Their games are aimed at what is usually associated with console gameplay style, and majority of people that do enjoy such games already own either PS or Xbox.
Being PC gamer myself, personally i haven't really seen a single console exclusive that would make me excited so far, just not my type of games.
If you just make a crappy port the 'easy way' you get a subpar product that will be bashed by gamers and bring little to no profit due to it's short comings. Then there is also the fact that some types of games generally play better with console control schemes. Brawlers tend to feel really clunky with mouse/keyboard combo and not every PC gamer bothers with game pads.
As much as i can blame piracy for many things, it hardly is an actual reason for some games not being developed for PCs. It's a perfect excuse however since it has a nice ring to it and media like it.
When it comes to LA Noire and other recent Rockstar production - don't care. GTA stopped being appealing for me the moment it became 'serious' and 3d game and everything else just follows the scheme. Their games are aimed at what is usually associated with console gameplay style, and majority of people that do enjoy such games already own either PS or Xbox.
Being PC gamer myself, personally i haven't really seen a single console exclusive that would make me excited so far, just not my type of games.
I fail to see how all the reasons you listed should make you conclude that the developers are "lazy". Those reasons are more than enough for the developers not to port to PC or contract another developer to do it for them.Keava said:
I think if we're talking about Red Dead Redemption, Sails are going to be low because:
A. The people that want to play it, already played it.
B. Going horseback from point A to point B is a barren, featureless map is just as entertaining as the 5hr drive from Halifax to Sydney. Having a gunfight during this trip and the entertainment value goes up there with Installing Windows.
C. People know the setting's nailed down pretty good, and it's entertaining, but the novelty wears off a half an hour in.
D. The combat is garbage. The story is sub-par at it's best. Did I mention the map is dull and featureless?
Clearly, piracy is to blame here, everybody would want a copy of this gem in the rough and we're just too cheap to shovel out the $70 its clearly worth.
As other people have said, make a good game. Sales are gonna fly It's hard to port a good console game to the PC, as Keava has said. (See devil may cry 4. It looks like a good port, but the box [http://store.steampowered.com/app/45700/] advertises features every PC game should have as "extra content"... What?)
Most "pirates" I know online and offline will buy the game if they like it. I bought Minecraft, Sol Survivor, UT3, all 3 STALKER games, both 3D Fallouts, and Metro 2033. I'm not going to justify piracy here. It's much more preferable to just try the demo, but in most cases, there is no demo or the Demo doesn't give you much to see.
I've also noticed someone said that Companies can remotely Brick your console? Source? With both, the PS3 and Xbox, this is impossible. You can be banned from XBL, but that's only if your stupid enough to subscribe to it. As for the PS3, it contains no such feature. The Original Xbox contained no such feature either, and is actually quite a kick-ass media center that's very easy to modify and stream from PC's with the Windows Operating System. Fuck the games. Imagine the sales if they put them out again. I know I'd be all over that.
A. The people that want to play it, already played it.
B. Going horseback from point A to point B is a barren, featureless map is just as entertaining as the 5hr drive from Halifax to Sydney. Having a gunfight during this trip and the entertainment value goes up there with Installing Windows.
C. People know the setting's nailed down pretty good, and it's entertaining, but the novelty wears off a half an hour in.
D. The combat is garbage. The story is sub-par at it's best. Did I mention the map is dull and featureless?
Clearly, piracy is to blame here, everybody would want a copy of this gem in the rough and we're just too cheap to shovel out the $70 its clearly worth.
As other people have said, make a good game. Sales are gonna fly It's hard to port a good console game to the PC, as Keava has said. (See devil may cry 4. It looks like a good port, but the box [http://store.steampowered.com/app/45700/] advertises features every PC game should have as "extra content"... What?)
Most "pirates" I know online and offline will buy the game if they like it. I bought Minecraft, Sol Survivor, UT3, all 3 STALKER games, both 3D Fallouts, and Metro 2033. I'm not going to justify piracy here. It's much more preferable to just try the demo, but in most cases, there is no demo or the Demo doesn't give you much to see.
I've also noticed someone said that Companies can remotely Brick your console? Source? With both, the PS3 and Xbox, this is impossible. You can be banned from XBL, but that's only if your stupid enough to subscribe to it. As for the PS3, it contains no such feature. The Original Xbox contained no such feature either, and is actually quite a kick-ass media center that's very easy to modify and stream from PC's with the Windows Operating System. Fuck the games. Imagine the sales if they put them out again. I know I'd be all over that.