Lest we forget? (Mostly focused at Australian and New Zealand forum go-ers)

[TechNoFear]

Anyways, ANZAC day has nothing to with veterans telling people not to go to war. It's more like a celebration of war. Boooooo.

You show your lack of understanding, selfishness and immaturity.

40% of Australian males volunteered to go fight a war that would never come to our shores. ANZACs being the ONLY 100% volunteer army in both WW1 and WW2.

It shows the Australian spirit, our willingness to stand up for what is right and honorable, even at great personal cost.

In the trenches of WW1 the core Australian value of 'mateship' was forged.

If we wanted to commemorate war we would celebrate a great victory like Isurava (400 part-time ANZACs held off 2,500 Japanese regulars long enough for Australia to be reinforced).

I hope as you get older you are capable of understanding why we celebrate the lives of these brave young men who allowed us to become the nation we are (well were, before GenY made Australia into another bland state of the US).

 

[AhumbleKnight]

I think the day is just some lame attempt by warmongers to make people think war is honourable and traditional.

You can think what you like about what ANZAC day is about. The thing is though, this is NOT what ANZAC day is about! It is actualy quite sad that you think so.

ANZAC day annoys me, we should remember wars and how horrible it was (is), but to glorify sitting in a trench shooting at people and being shot at is just disgraceful.

Not what ANZAC day is about, or does, at all, in any way. I am sorry to hear that you think this is the case. Where did you get this impression from?

The concept of the 'ANZAC spirit' as a willingness to go and do just this is a travesty.
To me it feels like they're saying "war is hell, but your not a man if you don't go and put up with it"

I encourage you to go talk to anybody who has actualy been to a war, any war, and find out what they think about it. I have never heard anybody who has been there say anything remotly close to what you think ANZAC day is promoting.

ANZAC Day is about remembering the sacrifics of those that came before us in WWI primarily, but also every other war that Australia has been involved in. It is vitaly important the we never forget the horrors of war so that we know and understand that it should be avioded at all costs.

It saddens me to read the comments written by some of you guys who have an incredable misunderstanding of what ANZAC day is.

Lest we forget.

 

[banthesun]

It shows the Australian spirit, our willingness to stand up for what is right and honorable, even at great personal cost.

Stand up for what was right and honourable? Were talking about WW1 here, no Nazi's commiting genocide, to be frank it was just a territorial conflict between the old empires. There was no reason to murder others or be killed doing so, no 'right'. The ANZACs were just unlucky enough to bear the brunt of it

I don't want to belittle the suffering they endured, I know they went through hell, but the modern celabration of ANZAC day just glorifies this suffering.

ANZAC day should be about how terrible wars are, not about how great we are for following them through

 

[hypothetical fact]

Anyways, ANZAC day has nothing to with veterans telling people not to go to war. It's more like a celebration of war. Boooooo.

You show your lack of understanding, selfishness and immaturity.

40% of Australian males volunteered to go fight a war that would never come to our shores. ANZACs being the ONLY 100% volunteer army in both WW1 and WW2.

It shows the Australian spirit, our willingness to stand up for what is right and honorable, even at great personal cost.

In the trenches of WW1 the core Australian value of 'mateship' was forged.

If we wanted to commemorate war we would celebrate a great victory like Isurava (400 part-time ANZACs held off 2,500 Japanese regulars long enough for Australia to be reinforced).

I hope as you get older you are capable of understanding why we celebrate the lives of these brave young men who allowed us to become the nation we are (well were, before GenY made Australia into another bland state of the US).

After each war the veterans were told to shut up and be remembered as heroes so the government could glorify the next combat. 100% attendance is a sign of ignorance not the love for a country, it was the same ignorance that german teens felt when they volunteered for WW1. The government doesn't want ANZAC day to die because it means more children want to grow up and experience "mateship", without realising that "mateship" means holding your mates as they bleed to death.
Oh and gen Y didn't turn this country into America, nationalism did. ANZAC day was a time when we went to a war we didn't need, to defend England who didn't want us and were shot up in ANZAC cove needlessly. This day has been exploited against the soldiers wishes by politicians who wanted power, the army who wanted gullible soldiers and RSL clubs for gambling income.

 

[TechNoFear]

It shows the Australian spirit, our willingness to stand up for what is right and honorable, even at great personal cost.

Stand up for what was right and honourable? Were talking about WW1 here, no Nazi's commiting genocide, to be frank it was just a territorial conflict between the old empires. There was no reason to murder others or be killed doing so, no 'right'. The ANZACs were just unlucky enough to bear the brunt of it

ANZAC day celebrates all veterans, not just WW1.

 

[Dragon_of_red]

I'm afraid that I don't live in either Australia nor New Zealand, so I guess my opinion doesn't count for much.

But I don't agree with the whole remembrance thing, at least the way you put it. Yes, it's probably a touching event in which many people dear to someone died. But it doesn't mean we should lock down the stores and potentially fuck up some peoples' lives, even if they're just whiny little kids, just because of that.

I mean, 911 happened less then a decade ago and I'm fucking sick of the whole thing. Yes, people died. Yes, it's sad. Get over it.

I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for this, but opinions are opinions =)

You do realise that like 10,000 ANZAC soldiers died in like that coupla days at gallipoli.

Now thats anough to be remebered for, im all for ANZAC day, i really enjoy the awesome game on today though, (i cant believe my team lost by 5 points), i didnt really go to any marches or anything, but im damn proud off al those ANZACS.

Did anyone actually have the minute of silence with the bugle playing, i sure did.

 

[banthesun]

I think the day is just some lame attempt by warmongers to make people think war is honourable and traditional.

You can think what you like about what ANZAC day is about. The thing is though, this is NOT what ANZAC day is about! It is actualy quite sad that you think so.

ANZAC day annoys me, we should remember wars and how horrible it was (is), but to glorify sitting in a trench shooting at people and being shot at is just disgraceful.

Not what ANZAC day is about, or does, at all, in any way. I am sorry to hear that you think this is the case. Where did you get this impression from?

The concept of the 'ANZAC spirit' as a willingness to go and do just this is a travesty.
To me it feels like they're saying "war is hell, but your not a man if you don't go and put up with it"

I encourage you to go talk to anybody who has actualy been to a war, any war, and find out what they think about it. I have never heard anybody who has been there say anything remotly close to what you think ANZAC day is promoting.

ANZAC Day is about remembering the sacrifics of those that came before us in WWI primarily, but also every other war that Australia has been involved in. It is vitaly important the we never forget the horrors of war so that we know and understand that it should be avioded at all costs.

It saddens me to read the comments written by some of you guys who have an incredable misunderstanding of what ANZAC day is.

Lest we forget.

From where I stand it seems that the government is focusing on the concept of 'mateship' as an endurance of this suffering, that it is an Australian value to put up with this. I feel this removes from the significance of their memory. I agree with you completely that ANZAC day should be about remembering the horrors of war and the sacrafices these veterans endured, but it seems to me that the government is ignoring this aspect in favour of proposing this suffering as something necessary.

I do not hate ANZAC day, I beleive it is of vital importance to remember this, in the hope of never allowing it to be repeated
I hate the suggestion that such suffering is noble, for I fear this can only lead to the mistakes of the past

 

[AhumbleKnight]

It shows the Australian spirit, our willingness to stand up for what is right and honorable, even at great personal cost.

Stand up for what was right and honourable? Were talking about WW1 here, no Nazi's commiting genocide, to be frank it was just a territorial conflict between the old empires. There was no reason to murder others or be killed doing so, no 'right'. The ANZACs were just unlucky enough to bear the brunt of it

One thing about WWI can be related to Iraq (hear me out please). As far as we all knew, Iraq had WMD's. This turned out to be crap. WWI was much the same. Public knowledge about the real reasons why the war being faught at all was almost non-existant. All the public had was propaganda.

I don't want to belittle the suffering they endured, I know they went through hell, but the modern celabration of ANZAC day just glorifies this suffering.

ANZAC day should be about how terrible wars are, not about how great we are for following them through

The modern celabration of ANZAC day doesn't glorify any of it. I am sorry you think so.

We honour them because of their courage and mateship. Their willingness to risk death so that their mates might have a chance to live through it. Soldiers don't have any say about what wars we fight. The public doesn't even understand why they are started in the first place. This is true for almost ever war that has ever been faught.

 

[banthesun]

It shows the Australian spirit, our willingness to stand up for what is right and honorable, even at great personal cost.

Stand up for what was right and honourable? Were talking about WW1 here, no Nazi's commiting genocide, to be frank it was just a territorial conflict between the old empires. There was no reason to murder others or be killed doing so, no 'right'. The ANZACs were just unlucky enough to bear the brunt of it

ANZAC day celebrates all veterans, not just WW1.

The diggers and ANZAC cove are both the central image of ANZAC day and that is what I was reffering to. It would appear thats what you were reffering to from your next line.

Regardless WW2 was the only war were Australia was fighting either a direct threat and genocide. The other wars we have engaged in had no such clear bounderies, and were usualy simply a failure of diplomatic methods

 

[AhumbleKnight]

From where I stand it seems that the government is focusing on the concept of 'mateship' as an endurance of this suffering, that it is an Australian value to put up with this. I feel this removes from the significance of their memory. I agree with you completely that ANZAC day should be about remembering the horrors of war and the sacrafices these veterans endured, but it seems to me that the government is ignoring this aspect in favour of proposing this suffering as something necessary.

I do not hate ANZAC day, I beleive it is of vital importance to remember this, in the hope of never allowing it to be repeated
I hate the suggestion that such suffering is noble, for I fear this can only lead to the mistakes of the past

The problem with the government, any government, is that they will infect anything and everything with their political agenda. The fact that they do this should not remove from what ANZAC day is. Try, for one day a year, to ignore politics and apreciate ANZAC day for what it is.

 

[AhumbleKnight]

Regardless WW2 was the only war were Australia was fighting either a direct threat and genocide. The other wars we have engaged in had no such clear bounderies, and were usualy simply a failure of diplomatic methods

The reason Australia got involved in WWI was worse even than that. By remembering ANZAC day the way we do it is the hope that the Government stops making these horrible mistakes and commiting us to fight in a war that is unjust/unnessesary. The fact that the government doesn't listen and, to make matters worse, trys to taint ANZAC day does not mean we should stop.

Basicaly, what I am trying to say is; ANZAC day is not going to ge corrupted as long as we don't let it be. Ignore the political pandering and apreciate ANZAC day for what it is.

 

[TechNoFear]

The diggers and ANZAC cove are both the central image of ANZAC day and that is what I was reffering to. It would appear thats what you were reffering to from your next line.

You confuse the pupose, morality or correctness of the war with the motivations of the Diggers.

If your mate is in trouble, you help, even if that means a cost to yourself.
You help those who are unable to defend/help themselves, even if that causes you hardship.

These are the core values of 'mateship'.

This is what ANZAC day is about.

These values are being lost because Gen Y is more concerned with personal gratification and has an overblown sense of entitlement (but is unwilling to put in the effort to match these expectations).

 

[banthesun]

The diggers and ANZAC cove are both the central image of ANZAC day and that is what I was reffering to. It would appear thats what you were reffering to from your next line.

You confuse the pupose, morality or correctness of the war with the motivations of the Diggers.

Personaly I feel that the government is trying to confuse these two concepts, and I feel this is supported by a dva poster I saw, with soldiers in Afghanistan as the modern ANZACs. While i believe they are no less worthy of the name the poster appeared to be justifing the conflict with the ANZAC spirit
I believe it is our duty to remember their suffering
I also believe it is our duty to prevent this from ever happening again

 

[Vonotar]

To say that ANZACs fighting in WW1 was unneccessary is very hypothetical. If WW1 was won by the Germans then part of the conditions of surrender would have been Great Britain handing over control of all colonies including Australia and NZ to Germany. This was unacceptable to the people of Australia 100 years ago and they fought for our freedom. Comparisons to Iraq are not appropriate.
The British command at Gallipoli was very imcompenant and had scant value for human life. The Australian casualties horrified the government and general public and became an impetus to us for Australians to be in command of Australian forces. So in a way this forged Australian indepedence from Britain and made Australia a nation.

 

[Bobyoby]

I went to the ANZAC day ceremony in the country town where I live. It's pretty incredible to think that every town/city across the country carries out the same thing.

I love ANZAC day despite not having any family that has served for Australia/NZ in a war (both sides of my family are migrants post-world war II). I always get reduced to tears when I hear stories, diary entries and such from the ANZAC battles in Gallipoli.

I have the same situation with you, although i have been living in New Zealand all my life, and i remember hearing Gallipoli storys vividly from school, very tearfull things.

 

[traceur_]

I don't want to belittle the suffering they endured, I know they went through hell, but the modern celabration of ANZAC day just glorifies this suffering.

ANZAC day should be about how terrible wars are, not about how great we are for following them through

Please provide us with an example of how ANZAC day has glorified war. ANZAC day is about remembering those that served and died, there has never been an ANZAC day where someone has stood up at a dawn service and said, "hell yeh war is awesome and you guys are pussies for not going to kill people right now!", it's about remembering those who died, all television coverages I've seen have featured soldiers directly saying "war is hell" never have I seen one say "aww man it was awesome, going to another country and killing people is sweet". It doesn't glorify their suffering, it acknowledges it and remembers it.

Lest we forget.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Im not an Aussie but my grandfather fought at Gallipoli as a Captain in the British contingent so I kind of have a link. He died before I was born but my mum always said he refused to talk about it.

I find things like this and Armistice day especially relevant at the moment as we are down to the last few survivors that actually saw combat. WWI is in the process of passing from living memory into the historical archives. We have 1 last veteran of active service left alive who fought at Ypres. If he has a public funeral I am seriously considering going.

I don't know where I'm going with this, there isn't much to discuss really...um, I guess that eventually WWI and II will fade in peoples memeories to become part of history like the Napoleonic wars etc and I suppose this is part of that process, sad but inevitable.