Lets Bash Religion...or Not

[RexoftheFord]

But modern scientific principles can be used to explain possible phenomena that occur in scientific doctrine. Also, there is the evidence of historical doctrine. I also understand that all these things can be biased.

But yes, there can be evidence presented with religion despite where a religion was started y'know. But ok.

And what proof is there?

It'll take me a bit to dig up some of the old books I've read on it, but I'll be sure to get back to you on it when I do.

Seriously I will.

But like I've said before, I'm more of a neutral mind right now.

 

[SilentHunter7]

it still brought us the dark ages where all scientific research was outlawed.

Damn, I always thought the Dark Ages were caused by the fall of the Roman Empire, and the entire European Continent reduced to a couple dozen warring factions for several Centuries.

 

[RexoftheFord]

B. we untheists (just to give us all a general term) have for a long time been a threatened minority in the United States, and have almost no representation in government, and have been considered "heathens" and the such for the longest time, so please cut us some slack, ok?

So...insulting and cheap-shotting Christians is like Atheist Affirmative Action?

I don't think that's his point. But feel free to discuss it. Just try to remain civil, and provide evidence for your arguments.

Thanks.

 

[RexoftheFord]

it still brought us the dark ages where all scientific research was outlawed.

Damn, I always thought the Dark Ages were caused by the fall of the Roman Empire, and the entire European Continent reduced to a couple dozen warring factions for several Centuries.

You've misquoted this here. I didn't say this dude. Please fix your quotation.

 

[grimsprice]

You still have failed to show me how religious principles has caused these dark ages, and not the stupidity of people distorting the doctrine has done it.

So when they burned free thinkers at the stake and tried to hang people for heresy it wasn't the religion doing it...

Someone once asked me how i knew that suicide bombers did it because of religion.

Its simple, if they scream "alah be praise, death to the infidels" before exploding, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

When the held up crosses and said "God have mercy on your heathen soul" as you burned to death, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

 

[SilentHunter7]

it still brought us the dark ages where all scientific research was outlawed.

Damn, I always thought the Dark Ages were caused by the fall of the Roman Empire, and the entire European Continent reduced to a couple dozen warring factions for several Centuries.

You've misquoted this here. I didn't say this dude. Please fix your quotation.

My bad. It's hard to follow forum code.

 

[SilentHunter7]

So when they burned free thinkers at the stake and tried to hang people for heresy it wasn't the religion doing it...

Someone once asked me how i knew that suicide bombers did it because of religion.

Its simple, if they scream "alah be praise, death to the infidels" before exploding, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

When the held up crosses and said "God have mercy on your heathen soul" as you burned to death, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

Or they did it because of a warped view of their religion. It says right in Exodus that "Thou shalt not kill." It's pretty basic; God says don't kill people. Not hard to understand at all, really.

So anyone who kills someone in the name of Christianity is fucked in the head, or had other reasons. Not unlike people who say they kill because of video games.

 

[RexoftheFord]

So when they burned free thinkers at the stake and tried to hang people for heresy it wasn't the religion doing it...

Someone once asked me how i knew that suicide bombers did it because of religion.

Its simple, if they scream "alah be praise, death to the infidels" before exploding, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

When the held up crosses and said "God have mercy on your heathen soul" as you burned to death, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

Or they did it because of a warped view of religion. It says right in Exodus that "Thou shalt not kill." It's pretty basic; God says don't kill people. Not hard to understand at all, really. Anyone who kills someone in the name of Christianity is fucked in the head, or had other reasons.

Not unlike people who say they kill because of video games.

Finally, someone who can think beyond simple propaganda. Intelligent argument. But what if I were to argue that the religious leaders warped that view for the glory of their religion and God?

 

[loppopoo]

I hear people talking about atheists like "Don't make blanket statements about my faith!"
But, that in itself is a blanket statement, not all atheists are all up in arms, hating religion, trying to tell everyone how dead wrong they are. You know what, I don't give a FUCK about your religion.

 

[RexoftheFord]

All things in moderation. I'm a mildly religious man, not a saint or anything, but I believe in the basic tenants of Catholicism. I'm kind of annoyed by anti-theists constantly making blanket statements about my faith, especially when they have no fucking clue what they're talking about.

See, I can understand this.
I feel similarly when people make retarded statements about my lack of belief.

"Well isn't atheism just another religion?"
No, and go fuck yourself you ignorant scaremongering cockbags I consider your argument misinformed, to quote someone who really loves yellow backgrounds.

I've said it before and I will say it again, but this time, with a bit more explanation.
Let's say you're going chair shopping!
You're REALLY INTO this whole CHAIR THING.
But you have to FIND THE RIGHT CHAIR to SUIT YOUR NEEDS.
Eventually you decide on NO CHAIR, why?
Because you don't know, fuck chairs, or something, alright? Just go with it.

Now, is NO CHAIR a STYLE OF CHAIR?
No, it is a LACK OF CHAIR.

And that's all I really have to say about anything.

So, is your reason that no chair satisfies your needs because..you don't know? Or does is it because none of the stores have a chair that fit your desires for comfort, reclinability, or other things chairs do? Is the answer really that none of the stores you've been have failed to provide a chair that fully satisfies what you need in a chair and that they're chairs are inadequate in this measure?

Would you buy a chair that did satisfy your needs? And if the chair that satisfies your needs is simply the floor couldn't the floor be considered a sort of chair?

 

[Serge A. Storms]

Rather than have a religious debate within the context of some modern issue, let's start making threads in which the subject is bitching about religion, so that everyone knows which threads to come to if they want to ***** about religion. That's going to put a stop to all this religion bashing.

 

[SilentHunter7]

So when they burned free thinkers at the stake and tried to hang people for heresy it wasn't the religion doing it...

Someone once asked me how i knew that suicide bombers did it because of religion.

Its simple, if they scream "alah be praise, death to the infidels" before exploding, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

When the held up crosses and said "God have mercy on your heathen soul" as you burned to death, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

Or they did it because of a warped view of religion. It says right in Exodus that "Thou shalt not kill." It's pretty basic; God says don't kill people. Not hard to understand at all, really. Anyone who kills someone in the name of Christianity is fucked in the head, or had other reasons.

Not unlike people who say they kill because of video games.

Finally, someone who can think beyond simple propaganda. Intelligent argument. But what if I were to argue that the religious leaders warped that view for the glory of their religion and God?

If they try to change the meaning of the Bible, they obviously have no respect for His prophets. So I would say that the primary reason people change it is so that they can use it as a tool, not for God's glory.

Think about it. The Catholic Church didn't burn free-thinkers at the stake because they blasphemed against God. They burned free-thinkers at the stake because they were a threat to the Church. The Roman Catholic Church wielded more power than entire nations. That wouldn't last if people started questioning their teachings. So they had dissenters removed. Very publicly.

 

[RexoftheFord]

Rather than have a religious debate within the context of some modern issue, let's start making threads in which the subject is bitching about religion, so that everyone knows which threads to come to if they want to ***** about religion. That's going to put a stop to all this religion bashing.

Again, this is really just a free speech area. I don't care what people do here when it comes to religion or atheism.

Yes..free speech, something that is quickly dying in the areas of the world that proclaim they have it.

 

[Flos]

I think you should take each person on a person-to-person basis and do not attempt to generalize or stereotype a group.

Religion and science exist as separate entities. There's nothing scientific about religion. Nothing, because it cannot be disproved.

In order for a statement to be scientific it must be able to be disproved. This is basic science.

"God exists." is not a scientific statement because you cannot disprove that God exists. Because all religion boils down to 'God exists and here's why' religion is not scientific and should not be considered as such.

"Earth orbits the moon." is a scientific statement, even if it is wrong.

Creationism is not a science because it is impossible to prove Creationism wrong. Does that mean it is correct? No, but there is no testable or observable way to disprove that some form of higher entity created us.

In other words: lolscience.

However, we should not consider this as a 'slight' against religion. Science is a different branch of explanations that is not trying to disprove religion, but trying to explain the world around us. Science, short of finding an alien marker buried under the ground that has the genetic information for all life, cannot disprove religion ever, so you religious kids shouldn't worry.

Edit: For the record, this was brought on when someone said that some religions have points that can be proven scientifically. This is incorrect and you should feel bad, person.

No, no there isnt. Lets take Christianity. Founded 2000 years ago... thats 1200 years before the conception of what people could call "Modern Science".

They arent connected.

Even a relatively new Religion, Scientology, really struggles to have ANY scientific proof. It has some "Hey look, famous people follow this religion" proof...

Ah. Urm. Most modern science is based of theories and ideas that came from the Greeks well before Christ. In fact, one of the oldest forms of cartography is being used to map other planets.

Aristotle, for example, had all the making of Newton's Laws, but was never able to piece it together.

 

[grimsprice]

So when they burned free thinkers at the stake and tried to hang people for heresy it wasn't the religion doing it...

Someone once asked me how i knew that suicide bombers did it because of religion.

Its simple, if they scream "alah be praise, death to the infidels" before exploding, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

When the held up crosses and said "God have mercy on your heathen soul" as you burned to death, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

Or they did it because of a warped view of religion. It says right in Exodus that "Thou shalt not kill." It's pretty basic; God says don't kill people. Not hard to understand at all, really. Anyone who kills someone in the name of Christianity is fucked in the head, or had other reasons.

Not unlike people who say they kill because of video games.

Finally, someone who can think beyond simple propaganda. Intelligent argument. But what if I were to argue that the religious leaders warped that view for the glory of their religion and God?

Exactly, what is a religion? Is it not the dogma that its leaders interpret from its texts?

 

[RexoftheFord]

So when they burned free thinkers at the stake and tried to hang people for heresy it wasn't the religion doing it...

Someone once asked me how i knew that suicide bombers did it because of religion.

Its simple, if they scream "alah be praise, death to the infidels" before exploding, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

When the held up crosses and said "God have mercy on your heathen soul" as you burned to death, its the safe bet that they did it because of religion.

Or they did it because of a warped view of religion. It says right in Exodus that "Thou shalt not kill." It's pretty basic; God says don't kill people. Not hard to understand at all, really. Anyone who kills someone in the name of Christianity is fucked in the head, or had other reasons.

Not unlike people who say they kill because of video games.

Finally, someone who can think beyond simple propaganda. Intelligent argument. But what if I were to argue that the religious leaders warped that view for the glory of their religion and God?

Exactly, what is a religion? Is it not the dogma that its leaders interpret from its texts?

No. It is a way to find purpose in living one's life. Texts are not the religion. The principles are the religion. The lifestyle that is demanded by the principles and living these principles are the religion. The texts are just suppose to be guides.

But even compasses can be misused by the point man.

 

[Space Spoons]

People who are blindly religious and shun anyone who doesn't support their beliefs are pretty dumb. So are people who savagely attack religion and it's followers for no reason other than disagreeing with their beliefs.

Like with many things, the best place to be is somewhere in the middle. I'm not a religious person, personally, but I respect the beliefs of people who are religious. I may not agree with their beliefs, but I'm not about to attack them over it.

 

[grimsprice]

Now, is NO CHAIR a STYLE OF CHAIR?
No, it is a LACK OF CHAIR.

And that's all I really have to say about anything.

Atheism is a religion, as bald is a hair color.

 

[RexoftheFord]

I think you should take each person on a person-to-person basis and do not attempt to generalize or stereotype a group.

Religion and science exist as separate entities. There's nothing scientific about religion. Nothing, because it cannot be disproved.

In order for a statement to be scientific it must be able to be disproved. This is basic science.

"God exists." is not a scientific statement because you cannot disprove that God exists. Because all religion boils down to 'God exists and here's why' religion is not scientific and should not be considered as such.

"Earth orbits the moon." is a scientific statement, even if it is wrong.

Creationism is not a science because it is impossible to prove Creationism wrong. Does that mean it is correct? No, but there is no testable or observable way to disprove that some form of higher entity created us.

In other words: lolscience.

However, we should not consider this as a 'slight' against religion. Science is a different branch of explanations that is not trying to disprove religion, but trying to explain the world around us. Science, short of finding an alien marker buried under the ground that has the genetic information for all life, cannot disprove religion ever, so you religious kids shouldn't worry.

Edit: For the record, this was brought on when someone said that some religions have points that can be proven scientifically. This is incorrect and you should feel bad, person.

No, no there isnt. Lets take Christianity. Founded 2000 years ago... thats 1200 years before the conception of what people could call "Modern Science".

They arent connected.

Even a relatively new Religion, Scientology, really struggles to have ANY scientific proof. It has some "Hey look, famous people follow this religion" proof...

Ah. Urm. Most modern science is based of theories and ideas that came from the Greeks well before Christ. In fact, one of the oldest forms of cartography is being used to map other planets.

Aristotle, for example, had all the making of Newton's Laws, but was never able to piece it together.

I don't feel bad. And I said certain phenomena in religious texts could be proven scientifically. Not religion itself.

Plus, I see you're following the Popperian model of Scientific research. That theories have to be able to be disproved. But lets say you created a theory that did rely on empirical data that couldn't be disproved. Would this mean it wasn't scientific? I suppose it would. Because then it would fail to be a theory and would ascend into knowledge. So what you are saying is that science is a search for knowledge and when something can no longer be disproved it has reached certain knowledge?