Lets discuss Wolfenstein: TNO (Spoilers inside spoiler tags)

[josemlopes]

How long has the game been out? Probably enough for some people to have finished it, right? (I wont really thouch on spoilers in this post though)

So yeah, lets talk about it!

First things first, I really loved this game so from now on I will certainly sound like a fanboy in these forums if someone calls this game crap, I will try to control that but this one so far is one of my top games of this year and it will be one of those that I will always love like Psychonauts, Timesplitters, Saints Row 2 and Spec Ops: The Line.


I do know that this game certainly isnt for everyone and obviously isnt 10/10 material but it completely delivers what it promised and does even more, the way the two timelines work, the multiple paths, the characters, the gunplay, its all very high quality and very well thought. If there is one thing that isnt that well thought is the pick up for ammo, you have to press E every time you want to pick up 9 rounds of the floor, I get it why its like that for health and armor but for ammo there is no reason it isnt automatic.

The gameplay from the videos was already something that was almost a given but I was worried about the heavy abundance of cutscenes in the trailers but damn, they are so well made that I even hoped there were more of them (they do make you care about the characters), the acting, the cinematography, the script, it keeps you engaged and while there is some pacing problems that are more noticeable in the start, you end up getting used to it and apreciate the way it structures the missions (basicly cutscene of someone telling you what the plan is in some other part of Europe, fade to black, and there you are in that place ready to start your mission).

Another cool thing about the cutscenes is how even though they are somewhat long and there are plenty of them the gameplay never suffers from it, you are never trapped through only one path to trigger the next cutscene, you usually have a very big chunk of gameplay between each cutscene that is a lot more open and varied then most shooters of this type (very good for replayability).

The weapons could have had some more variations, or at least all of them have a past/future version and have those versions more available, the only past weapon present in the future is the shotgun I think. Some different weapon categories would have also been apreciated, such as an SMG, a revolver or an bolt action rifle.


Also, here is a big tip since a lot of people have been complaining about some enemies being bullet sponges.

Each enemy actually has a weak spot, those big heavy mechs can be killed with a mix of a grenade to stun them and some few shots in the reactor placed in his back. Later on you also have access to a laser weapon that you can let it fully charge to kill most enemies with one shot (the bigger one needing maybe 3 shots), just aim at the enemy and in the scope some red dots will start to fill, let them all fill and shoot all the shots combined, you can aim them all at one specific enemy or let them take out multiple ones at the same time.

So yeah, what did you thought of the game?

 

[terraNivium]

so far it's looking good, haven't yet had a chance to try it out unfortunately but spied G2A has a discount going on steam keys https://www.g2a.com/r/wolfdiscount

overall it looks better than the 2009 'remake' but only gameplay will tell xD

 

[Zhukov]

Eh. It's a shooter. There are guns. With which to shoot things.

I only played a few hours (was on someone else's console). It's not a bad game I suppose. It all more or less works. But there's nothing amazing on show.

Oh, and Nazis haven't gotten any fresher for having sat in the basement for eight years or so.

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

I'm with OP on this one. So far it's my game of the year (but then I'm one of the few people not looking forward to watch dogs). I know it's not perfect, it's very much a 'learn fast or die' kind of game, but lately we kind of need that.

The game play is outstanding. I didn't realize how much I missed dual wielding until I got to do some more of it in this game. The lazer guns are great, end of story. And the levels make running and gunning flow hand in hand with stealthy stabby shenanigans. But mostly it's just a big bloody mess of exploding dual wielding nazi fun.

One thing I was not sold on though was the ending. Without wishing to spoil, I was underwhelmed.

 

[Dalisclock]

Haven't played it yet(too much else on my plate right now) but I did have two questions.

1. I didn't play the 2009 game(and strangely it's not on steam) but did play RTCW. Is the game a direct sequel to the 2009 one or more of a follow on to the whole universe? Am I going to miss anything by not having played the 2009 version(I didn't recognize the handicapped lady in the trailers but they seemed to know each other)?

2. Am I correct in guessing they are tearing a page from Bioshock:Infinite and some wacky Time Travel/Alternative Dimension Shenanigans are going on? A simple yes or no is fine, but in my experience Wolfenstein games never have plot twists such that spoiling is a big deal. There's also the fact that you pretty much have to have Time Travel or some other crazy stuff going on to have a plausible "Nazis take over the World" Scenario.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

I really enjoyed the game through and through..had a lot of fun with it.

It gave me an old school vibe somewhat from the previous Wolfenstein games and that's nothing but a good thing.

It was quite lenghty compared to what we get usually in First Person Shooters so that's a plus as well.

 

[KaZuYa]

Haven't played it yet(too much else on my plate right now) but I did have two questions.

1. I didn't play the 2009 game(and strangely it's not on steam) but did play RTCW. Is the game a direct sequel to the 2009 one or more of a follow on to the whole universe? Am I going to miss anything by not having played the 2009 version(I didn't recognize the handicapped lady in the trailers but they seemed to know each other)?

2. Am I correct in guessing they are tearing a page from Bioshock:Infinite and some wacky Time Travel/Alternative Dimension Shenanigans are going on? A simple yes or no is fine, but in my experience Wolfenstein games never have plot twists such that spoiling is a big deal. There's also the fact that you pretty much have to have Time Travel or some other crazy stuff going on to have a plausible "Nazis take over the World" Scenario.

The woman in the wheelchair is the leader of the Kreisau Circle, a former schoolteacher named Caroline Becker from the 2009 game. and 2) No

 

[SajuukKhar]

I am left wondering how in the hell Arthur Kenneth Blaze né Blazkowicz is going to be born in this timeline.

Dammit BJ, you forgot to father the father of Commander Keen(full name William Joseph Blazkowicz II)

 

[KaZuYa]

I am left wondering how in the hell Arthur Kenneth Blaze né Blazkowicz is going to be born in this timeline.

Dammit BJ, you forgot to father the father of Commander Keen(full name William Joseph Blazkowicz II)

He certainly did not forget *nudge nudge*

 

[Fsyco]

1. I didn't play the 2009 game(and strangely it's not on steam) but did play RTCW. Is the game a direct sequel to the 2009 one or more of a follow on to the whole universe? Am I going to miss anything by not having played the 2009 version(I didn't recognize the handicapped lady in the trailers but they seemed to know each other)?

It's a sequel, but you don't need to have played it (Or RTCW) to understand TNO.


The 2009 version isn't on Steam due to some kind of copyright thing. Something to do with the publishers (Wolfenstein 2009 is published by Activision instead of Bethesda, like the others). You can either buy it on Amazon for way-too-goddamn-much or torrent it if you really want to. You aren't missing that much in TNO, since I didn't play Wolf2009 (I got a copy as a Christmas present but didn't run on my computer at the time and sadly I've lost the disc) and I followed the plot of TNO just fine. There's a couple characters who return from it(the major bad guy and that woman you mentioned), but you'll be able to fill in the blanks. The only major reason to play the 2009 game is to see Hans Grosse do his thing, since as far as I know, he's the only character besides BJ from the original Wolfenstein games to be brought into the new ones.

Although....

Spoiler

The last boss is basically the Mecha-Hitler fight from the end of the original Wolfenstein 3D, except with the new bad guy instead of Hitler. It was awesome. And hard as balls.

Also thought it was kind of cool seeing Nazis in a video game have actual Nazi ideology. Even though we had an abundance of Nazis in the mid to late 2000s, I can't remember any that actually dealt with either concentration camps or the Nazi's racial ideology. It was in Metro Last Light, but those were Russian Neo-Nazis and they weren't the main bad guys anyway.

I did notice, though, that there's really not many games that actually have Hitler in them. Which is odd, because he's in plenty of movies and TV shows, and he was in the very first Wolfenstein. Anybody know why video games are the only medium that don't depict Hitler?

 

[josemlopes]

I did notice, though, that there's really not many games that actually have Hitler in them. Which is odd, because he's in plenty of movies and TV shows, and he was in the very first Wolfenstein. Anybody know why video games are the only medium that don't depict Hitler?

I didn't hear you over the sound of this

And Deathshead isnt a new enemy, he was the main mad scientist (and Blazkowicz´s nemesis) in both RTCW and Wolfenstein 2009 (I didnt play 2009 either), he even is heavily inspired by a boss from Wolfenstein 3D.

 

[Fsyco]

I did notice, though, that there's really not many games that actually have Hitler in them. Which is odd, because he's in plenty of movies and TV shows, and he was in the very first Wolfenstein. Anybody know why video games are the only medium that don't depict Hitler?

I didn't hear you over the sound of this

And Deathshead isnt a new enemy, he was the main mad scientist (and Blazkowicz´s nemesis) in both RTCW and Wolfenstein 2009 (I didnt play 2009 either), he even is heavily inspired by a boss from Wolfenstein 3D.

I remembered that one but forgot to mention it. That's kind of only one game out of....a ton of WW2 shooters, though.

I know Deathshead was in RTCW and Wolf2009, but he wasn't in ye olden Wolf3D games and, again, you don't really need to have played those to understand that he's the bad guy. He seems more like a cross of Josef Mengele and Heinrich Himmler than just an update of a Wolf3D boss (although I can think of three from Wolf3D he's based on, in both design and boss fight mechanics). Namely:

Spoiler

Dr. Shcabbs and Otto Giftmacher for the whole 'Evil Nazi Scientist/Officer', and Mecha-Hitler for the actual fight at the end of TNO

 

[josemlopes]

I know Deathshead was in RTCW and Wolf2009, but he wasn't in ye olden Wolf3D games and, again, you don't really need to have played those to understand that he's the bad guy.

Ah yes, I missread a part where you said that only Hans Grosse and BJ were from the original Wolfenstein games (I read it as if you had included RTCW), my bad.

And yeah, either way Hitler is certainly absent in most games, I guess he just isnt a person to have a direct fight against, it certainly worked with mecha-hitler because of how absurd it was, since most WW2 shooters try to be a bit more dramatic thats probably why they dont try to pull off another fight agaisnt Hitler.

In movies when he shows up its probably a more personal and human story then just americans shooting nazis in WW2, I dont think he is ever all that present for the action and that is what most games are about.

 

[Fsyco]

I know Deathshead was in RTCW and Wolf2009, but he wasn't in ye olden Wolf3D games and, again, you don't really need to have played those to understand that he's the bad guy.

Ah yes, I missread a part where you said that only Hans Grosse and BJ were from the original Wolfenstein games (I read it as if you had included RTCW), my bad.

And yeah, either way Hitler is certainly absent in most games, I guess he just isnt a person to have a direct fight against, it certainly worked with mecha-hitler because of how absurd it was, since most WW2 shooters try to be a bit more dramatic thats probably why they dont try to pull off another fight agaisnt Hitler.

In movies when he shows up its probably a more personal and human story then just americans shooting nazis in WW2, I dont think he is ever all that present for the action and that is what most games are about.

I suppose you have a point. I hadn't considered that gameplay wise, there'd be nothing to do with him. That and assassinating him too early into World War 2 would have been a really, really bad idea >.>;; Since Hitler was a pretty colossal moron, and if he had died, Himmler would have taken over (that's the exact reason the British didn't assassinate him, if memory serves).

But I wasn't just referring to gameplay. The New Order has no pictures or recordings of the poor guy in the background, no video of him giving a speech about how awesome it is to rule the world. He's mentioned briefly in passing once, I think, despite the fact that he's now the most powerful man on the planet. Which is odd, considering that real life Nazis (and Wolf3D) loved plastering his face everywhere. And I don't recall any of that in the WW2 shooters during that fad, either.

 

[sXeth]

My main complaint was the checkpoints being a bit in-obvious, making it tough to tell when it was good to exit out (short of full on "Exit level".

Mechanically, its all very solid. Stealth is maybe a tinge overpowering, as enemies seem to have no peripheral or hearing at all a lot of the time. It forces you out of stealth fairly regularly anyways to keep the pace moving.

Storywise, I describe it as succeeding in embracing its ridiculousness where other games (Far Cry 3 for instance) failed. It manages to tell its story without overdosing on attempts at angst and drama, while managing to keep hold of its robot dogs and space magic, without making itself into a joke (a la Blood Dragon or Saints Row).

(I should clarify, I enjoyed BD and SR as their humor went)

 

[josemlopes]

I know Deathshead was in RTCW and Wolf2009, but he wasn't in ye olden Wolf3D games and, again, you don't really need to have played those to understand that he's the bad guy.

Ah yes, I missread a part where you said that only Hans Grosse and BJ were from the original Wolfenstein games (I read it as if you had included RTCW), my bad.

And yeah, either way Hitler is certainly absent in most games, I guess he just isnt a person to have a direct fight against, it certainly worked with mecha-hitler because of how absurd it was, since most WW2 shooters try to be a bit more dramatic thats probably why they dont try to pull off another fight agaisnt Hitler.

In movies when he shows up its probably a more personal and human story then just americans shooting nazis in WW2, I dont think he is ever all that present for the action and that is what most games are about.

I suppose you have a point. I hadn't considered that gameplay wise, there'd be nothing to do with him. That and assassinating him too early into World War 2 would have been a really, really bad idea >.>;; Since Hitler was a pretty colossal moron, and if he had died, Himmler would have taken over (that's the exact reason the British didn't assassinate him, if memory serves).

But I wasn't just referring to gameplay. The New Order has no pictures or recordings of the poor guy in the background, no video of him giving a speech about how awesome it is to rule the world. He's mentioned briefly in passing once, I think, despite the fact that he's now the most powerful man on the planet. Which is odd, considering that real life Nazis (and Wolf3D) loved plastering his face everywhere. And I don't recall any of that in the WW2 shooters during that fad, either.

Hmmm, I see, you are right about that, it does seem kind of weird. Could it be related to selling it in certain markets (germany basicly pretends it never happened with the censorship of the swastikas, the Nazis in TNO are called The Regiment), being the reason why Hitler in both Sniper Elite games (2 and 3) is only present in DLCs? I have no idea but you do have a point with that.

 

[KaZuYa]

I suppose you have a point. I hadn't considered that gameplay wise, there'd be nothing to do with him. That and assassinating him too early into World War 2 would have been a really, really bad idea >.>;; Since Hitler was a pretty colossal moron, and if he had died, Himmler would have taken over (that's the exact reason the British didn't assassinate him, if memory serves).

Yes I was involved in a very interesting discussion once at university about what if you could use a time machine and kill Adolf Hitler very young or just prevent his birth and the general consensus was it would of been a bad idea simply because of the political and social situation in Germany would of given rise to either a fascist far right movement (basically the Nazi's under a different banner) anyway or a Communist regime under the control of Stalin which would of created a much bigger threat than the Nazi's under Hitler. Simply put we were lucky that Hitler built his empire on pure charisma and dominated the truly dangerous people like Himmler and Joseph Goebbels to the extent they let him make some ludicrous mistakes which allowed the Allies to basically beat a much superior force.

 

[Fsyco]

Hmmm, I see, you are right about that, it does seem kind of weird. Could it be related to selling it in certain markets (germany basicly pretends it never happened with the censorship of the swastikas, the Nazis in TNO are called The Regiment), being the reason why Hitler in both Sniper Elite games (2 and 3) is only present in DLCs? I have no idea but you do have a point with that.

The Germans actually do allow swastikas in media art (American movies about Nazis don't have to change anything, and the Germans even have a few movies about Hitler), but unfortunately, due to a ruling in the early 90s, video games are classified as toys and not art. Although I'm pretty sure the Wolfenstein games were banned in Germany anyway up until The New Order. Not like we can blame Germany for being a bit touchy about Nazism.

I suppose you have a point. I hadn't considered that gameplay wise, there'd be nothing to do with him. That and assassinating him too early into World War 2 would have been a really, really bad idea >.>;; Since Hitler was a pretty colossal moron, and if he had died, Himmler would have taken over (that's the exact reason the British didn't assassinate him, if memory serves).

Yes I was involved in a very interesting discussion once at university about what if you could use a time machine and kill Adolf Hitler very young or just prevent his birth and the general consensus was it would of been a bad idea simply because of the political and social situation in Germany would of given rise to either a fascist far right movement (basically the Nazi's under a different banner) anyway or a Communist regime under the control of Stalin which would of created a much bigger threat than the Nazi's under Hitler. Simply put we were lucky that Hitler built his empire on pure charisma and dominated the truly dangerous people like Himmler and Joseph Goebbels to the extent they let him make some ludicrous mistakes which allowed the Allies to basically beat a much superior force.

The thing most people don't realize is that Hitler was an extremely charismatic moron surrounded by very competent people and who got really lucky early in his career. The Nazi war machine started to lose momentum once Der Fuehrer decided to make decisions personally, against the advice of his generals. Cracked has a pretty good article about it here: http://www.cracked.com/article_18389_the-5-most-widely-believed-wwii-facts-that-are-bullshit.html Basically, the Soviets were a much bigger threat than the Nazis, and Hitler wasn't nearly as bright as most people think he was.