Let's talk about grammar (NOTE: Read the disclaimer at the top of first post)

[Ticklefist]

One of the first things I learned in comp 101 was that other people's grammar isn't important if it doesn't keep you from understanding what they're saying.

 

[Creator002]

EDIT/DISCLAIMER - In reference to the "respect" stuff below, it only applies to the situations mentioned. In general conversation, through IM, text messages, etc., respect doesn't really play a factor.

Generally, I try to be as correct as possible with my grammar and spelling. I do let it go here and there, like a text message or the chat system in a game and I don't care about others' there either, but everywhere else, it's proper.

My main issue is when English is someone's first (and usually, only) language and they're trying to argue or state their opinion. I'm fluent in English, semi-fluent in German and learning Japanese. You must be able to handle one language if I'm able to handle about two or three. Also, if you don't care enough to write out your opinion/argument legibly, why should I care about that opinion/argument?
However, I give a lot of leeway to those who English is not their first language[footnote]Though, they're usually better than natives in my experience.[/footnote] and those who have a disibility that affects language.

I don't bother fixing anyone's language use anymore. Personally, I think those who refuse to learn how to do it properly don't deserve the effort required to teach them nor the respect to listen to their opinions.[footnote]Again, non-natives and the "disabled" (for lack of a better word) excepted.[/footnote]

 

[Kyrian007]

I kind of agree with those who said they don't get bothered by bad grammar anymore. Now I just notice the mistake, calculate how old I was when I learned how to properly avoid that grammar mistake, and assume that grade level equals the highest grade level of the person who typed it.

While it hasn't helped in any way my faith in humanity as a whole, I do feel better about myself most of the time.

 

[Twinrehz]

Sorry I haven't responded earlier, I've been brooding and contemplating answers. This is going to be a long post, because there's a lot to respond to, so BEAR with me.

Spoiler: BEAR with me on this one!

[footnote]Yeah that was terrible[/footnote]

it reads a lot like a rant to me.

I guess it turned out that way, my main intention was to not make it a rant on that people type badly, but rather that, for the english-speaking part of the world, they don't care that they're typing badly. Now, I'm exaggerating the issue at hand, I'm not REALLY bothered by it, at least not very often, because I just ignore them instead. Years spent online has taught me that a) no one cares, b) everyone hates you for correcting them, and c) you'll just end up making a fool out of yourself, since most communities have this weird understanding that spelling nazi's are to be mocked, laughed at and hated. Sometimes it surfaces though, and I can't help but wonder why they're just so ignorant.

Let me give a bold blanket statement to these following quotes (some edit for convenience):

This is internet, on internet there are people from all around the world. Not everyone has English as their first or even second language. And let's be honest, English as a language is dumb as a pile of hammers. Spelling follows no rules, grammar has less irregulars only compared to German etc.

Exactly what i was thinking first. Why the internet think everyone is using English on a daily basis ?

I don't expect everyone online to be good at english, I know that the majority of european people are unfamiliar with or don't even speak english.

There is however, a significant difference between people that can't type/speak it properly, and people who don't give a rats ass what they're typing. To me, it's easy to tell whether a person just plain don't know (as in, it's not their first language and they don't use it all that much), or if they do know, because it's their first language, but don't care. I'm mainly concerned about the people in the latter category, I won't begrudge a person for not having learnt the language, if it's not their first language. There's no point in that, and it would make me come off as an even bigger douche.

If I can read it and easily determine what it's meant to convey, then I don't care in the slightest whether or not it's grammatically correct. If it's incoherent, or, for that matter, deeply misleading, then I don't really care whether or not it's grammatically correct, either. Honestly, I don't think it's terribly relevant in most cases. Sure, I'm not going to waste my time trying to divine the meaning of something too far gone, but that's true of things that are entirely grammatically correct, as well. Grammar is no guarantee of coherence, nevermind accuracy. Some people make lucrative careers out of creating grammatically-perfect male cow feces. And some of the smartest people I know can't spell worth a dang.

Give me clarity and insight, not slavish devotion to an often arbitrary ruleset.

I'm in the camp that has no problem with being loose on grammar and spelling as long as it's still comprehensible when it comes to social networking. I feel that when using things like Facebook and any instant messaging that my mind leans more toward a conversational state of mind- rather than a grammatically structured one. As a result, I don't really proofread either. Like I said, my mind is in a conversation so I'm trying to type to keep up with my thoughts.

The other factor as to why I'm lenient on mistakes is because I usually attribute them to just that- a mistake, not ignorance. I give people the benefit of the doubt. For instance, when I write quickly, there are a fair few times when I using the wrong homophone. I usually catch them, but I do occasionally post the mistakes. So when someone corrects me I sit there thinking, "Why? Who are they doing this for?" I know the difference between "where" and "wear". If I know the difference, then there's no point in correcting me except to make yourself feel good. And to be honest, it hurts a little to think that you thought that there was a greater chance of me not knowing that difference than my making a mistake.

I am with you on this one, for the most part. I'd say there's a fine line between making yourself understood, and typing like you're just typing the words in the order that they pop into mind. Upon joining this forum though, I made a habit of going through my post, checking the sentences for how they flow in the overall text, and if my point comes across clearly or not. Obviously, my primary point in my OP didn't come across properly, and for that I must suffer the consequences. [footnote]Holy balls I spelled consequences correctly on my first try.[/footnote]

There really aren't that many people that can't be bothered to use proper spelling, syntax etc. I believe that most of the time it's simply because people don't know how to. It's easier to say "I don't care" instead of "I don't know". I'd say that 3/4 of my English class in year 9 weren't aware of how to use commas and semi-colon. I don't understand why the internet has such contempt for "stupid" people(Well, I do, in that the internet is full of bastards, whatevers, etc, etc).

[footnote]That's "can be bothered to", otherwise it's a double negative. Just saying to be a total ass[/footnote]
They fall partially into the category of not knowing how to, but because their reason is that they don't care anyway, they come off as lazy and actually unwilling to learn. I understand that people can have problems learning it as well, because as has been pointed out in this thread, english is a total ***** of a language, but that shouldn't stop them from at least trying.

To the actual topic itself... I don't expect perfect grammar on the internet, particularly on forums. I understand that most people posting are doing more then one thing at a time, and its hard for most people to successfully edit themselves. It's far easier to spot problems in something you didn't write yourself. And, of course, I can't point too many fingers because I'm really bad at typing. I don't think I've used the proper there/they're/their in almost a decade, and a knock I took years ago affected my muscle control and my feeling sensitivity, both of which affect my typing when it comes to missed keys and the like. I've also recently picked up a habit of typing out words that sound similar to what I'm thinking, but are in no way related, or in some case even remotely spelled similar.

Generally speaking, here's the rule I use - can people easily read what's being typed, and understand the ideas the author is trying to convey? Does putting the wrong they're/there/their make it hard to understand? Not really. Does improper sentence structure? Yes.

Content of course wins in the end, but they could at least try to keep it coherent. I believe these two to go hand in hand, filling each other out nicely. It is of course possible to write interesting and not be perfect at it, but if you've at least shown some effort for making your point, you usually have given some thought to what you've written, and not just slammed your keyboard and made words pop out, without bothering to check what you wrote. Obviously there will be errors, but without the spelling and grammar nazi's, how will we ever learn?

 

[trollnystan]

I'm Swedish. Every time I see an obvious error, I think "I'm Swedish, and I know this stuff."

*Swedish fistbump*

Spoiler

That image above is my experience on the internet I feel. A lot of well-spoken non-native English speakers and native English speakers who don't give a damn. As to why? I don't know.

On the one hand I try not to dismiss people's opinions because of their spelling and grammar - our own Vault101 is a good reason not to after all; she's a smart cookie - but on the other hand I find myself a little irritated by it because today it's SO EASY to make sure your spelling is correct. Every browser as far as I know has a spell-checker after all. In my day... *shakes walking stick*

You taking care to check your spelling and grammar shaves seconds or more off me reading your post. It's considerate and polite IMHO to make yourself as understandable as possible; after all, if you want someone to read your post then you also need to make it easy to do so. Grammar is harder to check though, especially if you're young, not a native speaker, or both.

Small errors like to/too, your/you're, and such are not that bad here and there... I make them all the time when I'm in a hurry. But when an entire post is filled with it my eyebrow starts to twitch, lol.

 

[Cornish]

As a non-native dyslectic English is a bit of a challenge. Yet I find striving for proper spelling and grammar to be a basic courtesy in communication. Proper spelling and grammar will help conveying an opinion, argument and or information clearly. I'd imagine that that would contribute to understanding between those communicating, which I consider to be the ultimate goal of communicating. I don't know why others would find that trivial. Perhaps they view communicating on the internet as a relief valve? Just a place to vent.

 

[jklinders]

Only the most truly incoherent posts get on my nerves. If I can understand their salient point without straining then I feel that the attempt at communication was successful. I only really went off on someone for their grammar once and it was because I literally could not understand what he was trying to say other than to call me an idiot. The rest of his message was actually unreadable.

An important thing to remember as well when on the internet is you never really know if the fellow on the other end is a native English (or whatever language you are typing in) speaker. On that basis alone I give a free pass on things like there-their-they're or to and too. Context will tell what they mean unless they are truly typing nonsense.

Yes, yes, communicating clearly is important, but youtube or the Escapist forums are not the halls of academia and I refuse to get bent out of shape over this shit.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I admit I do occasionally correct people. I always do so as inoffensively as possible and even if they are offended, it doesn't matter much. I think being momentarily hated is a fair exchange for the person learning something from that point on.

It isn't laziness that results in poor grammar, it's not knowing any better.

 

[Total LOLige]

There really aren't that many people that can't be bothered to use proper spelling, syntax etc. I believe that most of the time it's simply because people don't know how to. It's easier to say "I don't care" instead of "I don't know". I'd say that 3/4 of my English class in year 9 weren't aware of how to use commas and semi-colon. I don't understand why the internet has such contempt for "stupid" people(Well, I do, in that the internet is full of bastards, whatevers, etc, etc).

[footnote]That's "can be bothered to", otherwise it's a double negative. Just saying to be a total ass[/footnote]
They fall partially into the category of not knowing how to, but because their reason is that they don't care anyway, they come off as lazy and actually unwilling to learn. I understand that people can have problems learning it as well, because as has been pointed out in this thread, english is a total ***** of a language, but that shouldn't stop them from at least trying.

What I'm saying is that they only use the "can't be bothered" excuse to hide the fact that they don't know how. I don't know, maybe the people you're talking to on the internet come back and reply with top notch grammar and spelling afterwards. You're wrong about the double negative, btw.

 

[Twinrehz]

You're wrong about the double negative, btw.

No I'm not. Your sentence reads (without contractions):
There really are not that many people that cannot be bothered. If you remove the two "not"s, your sentence reads: "There really are that many people that can be bothered", which, since it's a double negative, is also correct, and does not break with your original sentence. Your sentence therefore suggests that there are many people that can be bothered to use proper spelling and syntax.

This is (somewhat) semantic thumb-twiddling though, and I did understand what you actually meant.

our own Vault101 is a good reason not to after all;

Can't say I've experienced it first-hand (or noticed it), although I've seen threads with that name.

It isn't laziness that results in poor grammar, it's not knowing any better.

Not knowing any better, and not being interested in learning to improve, is laziness. Not being able to improve, well I consider that illogical, as we're genetically designed to learn from experience and improve.[footnote]Again, there are some rare exceptions.[/footnote]