Lets talk about: Obesity Acceptance

[Auberon]

Except that it's sort of moral obligation of any doctor and related profession if some 600lb elephant shows up complaining about their knees, chest pains or such. Human body is not designed to support that much weight, or they'd be able to walk without running out of breath or aching knees.

It's also been last 60 years or so that food has been plentiful enough to afford problematic obesity in first world nations, where it used to mean that this person was wealthy enough to feed themselves and extra before.

captcha: good grief

Yare yare... agreed.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

That opinion is very much the minority and overweight people (especially women) are generally looked upon with scorn in popular culture. Watch any mainstream comedy and pay attention to the amount of fat jokes. It's really astounding once you start noticing it. I'm not for policing humor and thought (for me, anything goes), but fat jokes are the easiest ones to make. Yeah, saying being overweight is 100% healthy is delusional. But if anyone is saying that, it is in response to the mainstream totally putting down fat people and encouraging fitness at every possible opportunity.

If you don't believe me, have this conversation face to face with an overweight person and pay close attention to their facial expressions. Note the looks of guilt, shame, discomfort, and sadness as you try to change the subject.

 

[90sgamer]

Bottom line: If you are fat, then you should not expect respect on account of being fat. Being fat is the natural state of a person who
1. is not fit; and
2. does not regulate what they eat.
No work is required to be fat in 99.99% of all people, therefore being fat is not an accomplishment.

In contrast, being obese takes effort for 100% of people. One must cognitively ignore the fact that they are becoming obese, and make a decision to do nothing. No one is naturally obese. Being obese requires willfully living a sedentary lifestyle while consuming copious amounts of food. This is worthy of scorn because those are not admirable qualities, in the same way being an asshole -- like me -- is worthy of scorn because I'm willfully being an asshole.

On the other hand, being fit and thin is difficult for 100% of people. It takes mental fortitude, consistency, and effort. Those are all admirable qualities. That is why thin people are admired and you, fat person, are not admired. I'm sure you have a great personality though because being agreeable takes effort.

 

[visiblenoise]

Obesity is typically seen in western society as a sign of greed and gluttony. Though for a while it was seen as a sign of prosperity and wealth and much sought after.

As for acceptabnce... well it's not about obesity it's about fitness. If you can perform these basic tasks you're fit/. No matter your weight

50 Pushups without pause
50 Situps without pause
50 Chin ups without pause
50 squats without pause
50 jumping jacks wihout pause
Being able to maintain a 10km/h pace for 5-mins.
These tasks must be performed one after the other in sequence over a period of 45-60 mins

If you can do all that, well then whatever your weight is, it's healthy for you. If you can't then it's not. You may notice that most of those exercises use your own body weight as resistance, thusly they're easier when you're lighter and harder when you're heavy.

Performing them in sequence basically tests your cardio function.

If you can do that sequence at 300lbs My friend you are not someone I would want to argue with or risk calling fat.

See being skinny can be just as unhealthy if not slightly more so than being obese. The body has more countermeasures in place to deal with obesity than skininess

Damn dude, your standards are high. Besides maybe jumping jacks and running, all of those exercises are targeting pretty specific areas of the body, and aren't as "cardio" as you make it out to be. I can do 50 situps, I can do the running, but last time I tried, I could only do 5 chin-ups, just because I never do them.

 

[90sgamer]

Funny thing about the fat acceptance movement. It actually does better promoting healthiness than constant shaming. A nice study came out recently pointing this very fact out.

If you tell people that they don't need to constantly loathe and hate their bodies, surprise surprise, they actually become more interested in taking care of themselves. They stop thinking about their bodies as adversaries and start thinking of it as a valued part of themselves, and instead of hating themselves and their physical form, they instead work towards health. Not (just) weight loss. Health. Being able to exercise, being able to do all sorts of activities, being able to feel better in all sorts of ways.

If you think the movement is just a bunch of fat people whining loudly, you aren't listening, y'all. It's about people learning to not hate themselves. And in valuing themselves, they learn how to take care of themselves. That's the entire deal. Society would rather fat people stay inside and be shunned from society at large. And if you do that... well, you get too ashamed to go out to the gym, too. But if you work on loving yourself, realizing your body is a part of you to be valued, not only do you feel better, but you get out of the house to take care of yourself. You become confident enough to make good and healthy choices.

It's important stuff. (Says a fat person who the fat acceptance movement helped in EXACTLY this same way.)

That is a very interesting point of view. Do you have a link that that study?
Image is certainly everything, but I'm not convinced until I see the study. I would suspect that there are other psychological issues at play that are more important that how one views his body. Namely, depression and locus of control. I know a lot of fat people that recognize they are fat, and recognize that being fat is not desirable. But, they still think highly of themselves (as they should, because they are typically working on self improvement).

 

[giles]

50 Pushups without pause
50 Situps without pause
50 Chin ups without pause
50 squats without pause
50 jumping jacks wihout pause
Being able to maintain a 10km/h pace for 5-mins.
These tasks must be performed one after the other in sequence over a period of 45-60 mins

What's with the random numbers? Have you ever done any of this?
10km/h is somewhere between a slow jog and a fast walk even my elderly parents could manage that and 50 jumping jacks is barely enough to wake me up. Meanwhile 50 proper, consecutive chin ups or pushups is SERIOUSLY HARD.

 

[Shdwrnr]

After reading this thread I noticed that it only seemed to be concerned with two issues: appearance and health. Now these are important when discussing obesity, but a big point of contention that is often implied but never discussed is that of the consequences of change; in particular how a shift in perception will negatively impact those that provide us with amenities and services and in turn create a cost burden on the rest of us.

To elaborate: the acceptance of obesity has the potential to give it protected status as a medically legitimate disability. More importantly, it becomes a reproducible and readily attainable disability that a person would be able to invoke nearly at will. This means taxpayer dollars, lobbying power, and federally forced accommodations in most public establishments, and huge costs to employers and other entities that would now be required to bend over backwards to the obese; all on the wallet of the healthy.

This issue is very personal for people on both sides and the above issue is generally skirted around because of how callous and dehumanizing it can be, but it is by far more important than appreciating how pretty some fat person thinks they are. I work in army medicine and specifically in a specialty that evaluates people in transition (either the end of a term of service, retirement, medical or administrative discharge) to determine their final medical status and I have seen personally the lengths to which a person will go to squeeze "free" money out of the government over issues just like this. Anyone who would dismiss them as unimportant or who would elevate "feelings" or "body image" over the burden that it places on the rest of the world are naive idealists at best or completely ignorant of reality and human nature at worst.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Obesity is typically seen in western society as a sign of greed and gluttony. Though for a while it was seen as a sign of prosperity and wealth and much sought after.

As for acceptabnce... well it's not about obesity it's about fitness. If you can perform these basic tasks you're fit/. No matter your weight

50 Pushups without pause
50 Situps without pause
50 Chin ups without pause
50 squats without pause
50 jumping jacks wihout pause
Being able to maintain a 10km/h pace for 5-mins.
These tasks must be performed one after the other in sequence over a period of 45-60 mins

If you can do all that, well then whatever your weight is, it's healthy for you. If you can't then it's not. You may notice that most of those exercises use your own body weight as resistance, thusly they're easier when you're lighter and harder when you're heavy.

Performing them in sequence basically tests your cardio function.

If you can do that sequence at 300lbs My friend you are not someone I would want to argue with or risk calling fat.

See being skinny can be just as unhealthy if not slightly more so than being obese. The body has more countermeasures in place to deal with obesity than skininess

50 chin ups without pause? I can do the rest of those pretty easy, but 50 chin ups? Are we thinking of the same thing here? I don't know anyone who can do that.

 

[giles]

The numbers aren't random by the way
ANyone can do 50 pushups given enough time... 50 pushups in under 3 minutes... now that's a different story.

Note there's a big difference between 50 pushups without pause and 50 pushups in some time frame (3 minutes sounds rather easy by comparison). Also doing them fast also makes it easier so what's the point of going to high reps with high speed?
Anyway, of course these numbers are random. There is no such thing as a number of pushups or situps you can do to qualify for the "fit" badge.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

50 Pushups without pause
50 Situps without pause
50 Chin ups without pause
50 squats without pause
50 jumping jacks wihout pause
Being able to maintain a 10km/h pace for 5-mins.
These tasks must be performed one after the other in sequence over a period of 45-60 mins

What's with the random numbers? Have you ever done any of this?
10km/h is somewhere between a slow jog and a fast walk even my elderly parents could manage that and 50 jumping jacks is barely enough to wake me up. Meanwhile 50 proper, consecutive chin ups or pushups is SERIOUSLY HARD.

Actually I'm up t0 70 push ups and 30 chin ups. The numbers aren't random by the way and again... it's not the individual exercises it's doing all of them one after the other within a specific time frame that's the tricky part. ANyone can do 50 pushups given enough time... 50 pushups in under 3 minutes... now that's a different story.

When you say "50 chin-ups without pause" do you mean the person never drops down from the bar, or never stops movement at all?

Either way, 50 chin-ups without pause is REALLY, REALLY hard. At the most fit I ever was in my life I did 37 pull-ups, and the only person I've ever met who did over 50 was a Navy SEAL. And to the surprise of no one, I've never met an obese Navy SEAL.

Also, a 10 km/hr pace is the equivalent of a 9:42 mile, that's really slow for anyone who's in halfway decent shape.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

The thing is, it's none of your business.

This has already been covered ad nauseum. I'd agree with you if we lived in a truly libertarian society, but we don't. We live in a society where taxpayers pay for people's healthcare (yes, even in the US), so people's health and what they cost taxpayers is everyone's business. It would take me 10 pages to list all the research on the harmful health effects of obesity, and it's already been shown that, even with shorter life spans, the obese have higher lifetime medical bills than the non-obese. All of this costs taxpayers money, thus it is "our business".

We have this idea that weight is tied to health, which only makes it worse.

Sorry but, for the most part, it is. Again, there are mountains of research concerning the link between obesity and general unhealthiness, I'll happily post some if you wish. Anecdotal evidence doesn't count.

Diets focus on losing weight quickly, when they should be focusing on eating and being healthy. The result is that a lot of people will lose the weight, feel like they're officially healthy, and go back to eating unhealthily and living an unhealthy lifestyle.

I'll be mean here, but if you weigh 400 lbs, go on a diet and lose 200 lbs, and then go right back to the same lifestyle (both in terms of food and exercise) that you previously had when you were 400 lbs and are shocked to discover that you return to the same weight you had when you were at that lifestyle, I don't feel much sympathy for you. This would be like if I trained to be able to bench press 300 lbs, and then I didn't train for a year, and then I started complaining because I could no longer bench press 300 lbs.

I agree that "fat shaming" is not the way to go, but neither is sugar coating the very real connection between obesity and health, the effects that obesity has on society at large and taxpayers, and denying established science.

 

[Auberon]

Is laziness and constant eating a health problem then? Because I've never heard of fit and thin person having type 2 diabetes per example, nor the assorted "I need oxygen tank and can't walk distances" issues.

 

[Verlander]

This isn't a thing, so lets stop pretending like it is. People have the right to feel comfortable how they are - no one recommends that people get fat (although some may think it's their duty to inform a skinny person to chub up, which isn't cool)

How about we stop giving a shit about what other people do to themselves, and concentrate our values into how we live our own lives. Think fat is cool or sexy? Go for it. Want to be lean? Go for it. Want mad muscles? Go for it. Don't give a shit either way? Guess what I'm gonna say...

Stop pushing your insecurities on others.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

The thing is, it's none of your business.

This has already been covered ad nauseum. I'd agree with you if we lived in a truly libertarian society, but we don't. We live in a society where taxpayers pay for people's healthcare (yes, even in the US), so people's health and what they cost taxpayers is everyone's business. It would take me 10 pages to list all the research on the harmful health effects of obesity, and it's already been shown that, even with shorter life spans, the obese have higher lifetime medical bills than the non-obese. All of this costs taxpayers money, thus it is "our business".

We have this idea that weight is tied to health, which only makes it worse.

Sorry but, for the most part, it is. Again, there are mountains of research concerning the link between obesity and general unhealthiness, I'll happily post some if you wish. Anecdotal evidence doesn't count.

Diets focus on losing weight quickly, when they should be focusing on eating and being healthy. The result is that a lot of people will lose the weight, feel like they're officially healthy, and go back to eating unhealthily and living an unhealthy lifestyle.

I'll be mean here, but if you weigh 400 lbs, go on a diet and lose 200 lbs, and then go right back to the same lifestyle (both in terms of food and exercise) that you previously had when you were 400 lbs and are shocked to discover that you return to the same weight you had when you were at that lifestyle, I don't feel much sympathy for you. This would be like if I trained to be able to bench press 300 lbs, and then I didn't train for a year, and then I started complaining because I could no longer bench press 300 lbs.

I agree that "fat shaming" is not the way to go, but neither is sugar coating the very real connection between obesity and health, the effects that obesity has on society at large and taxpayers, and denying established science.

I think you've got something mixed up here. Obesity doesn't cause health problems. Health problems cause obesity. It's a symptom, not a disease itself.

Sorry but no, your understanding of it is backwards. That would be like saying "lung cancer makes you more likely to smoke". No, smoking makes you more likely to get lung cancer.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/obe/risks.html
http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/obesity-health-risks
http://obesityinamerica.org/understanding-obesity/obesity-related-diseases/
http://www.rush.edu/rumc/page-1116006426755.html

Here's an excerpt from the final one: 'Type 2 diabetes. People who are obese develop a resistance to insulin, which regulates blood sugar levels. Over time, the resulting high blood sugar can cause serious damage to the body.'

In other words, it's not "people who are diabetic are more likely to become obese", it's "people who are obese are more likely to become diabetic".

 

[Riot3000]

I am pretty sure I am not the only one here who has a distinction between obesity and fat. Obesity is a different beast than fat. I know people are making to way bigger than it is and couple of extreme examples is no reason make a red alert.

This isn't a thing, so lets stop pretending like it is. People have the right to feel comfortable how they are - no one recommends that people get fat (although some may think it's their duty to inform a skinny person to chub up, which isn't cool)

How about we stop giving a shit about what other people do to themselves, and concentrate our values into how we live our own lives. Think fat is cool or sexy? Go for it. Want to be lean? Go for it. Want mad muscles? Go for it. Don't give a shit either way? Guess what I'm gonna say...

Stop pushing your insecurities on others.

Thank you that is why places on reddit like r\fatlogic and others a joke no matter how they try to play it off. People are assholes but if they fat that acquires special attention because "reasons". Make on of any other specific people and no way that would fly.