Level Grinding: How much is worth it?

[MammothBlade]

So, I'm wondering, at what point will you stop grinding? I'm currently playing Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, and I've been grinding to my limit. Mainly because I've come across a particularly troublesome boss and EXP and money is gained at a much slower rate, requiring a proportionally high amount of time spent on trolling for random encounters in order to get the sort of skills I need to progress further. The hard difficulty could have something to do with it, though.

For me, I like grinding if there are reasonable rewards to it. But when it becomes something like 100 macca per encounter when revival beads are 1600 apiece and what I really need is 16000, it gets frustrating.

 

[MammothBlade]

Don't think I don't fear my own height. Once you get up to level 100, you can't actually use the controller anymore. It just doesn't do it for me. One time, I found myself in Japan, and I got out pretty quick, because I knew they'd get me for causing tedium. Playing Casual Evergreens, I found that once the rare plants were owned by a player like myself, they tended to multiply, so I took it upon myself to prune. Pruning has to be done in real time, but I didn't have any real time at all, due to a lack of opportunities presented so far. I had to make up time usually utilized for sleeping to stay true to my pruning schedule. I really hope this isn't forever.

Ha ha ha. I wonder, do you get anything out of pruning plants?

 

[MammothBlade]

Ha ha ha. I wonder, do you get anything out of pruning plants?

It's more a question of what you don't get if you don't prune them, which is security, of course.

Then again, with random encounters monsters don't tend to multiply or attack you whilst you are standing still.

 

[Smertnik]

I avoid grinding like plague. If I have to grind to advance in the game I simply stop playing it altogether. Big no-no for me.

 

[sage42]

Unless I find the game in general really, really, really fun, I'll barely grind at all, just enough to squeak by.

 

[Fishyash]

I think it's poor design if you need to grind in order to progress in the game.

I haven't really played many RPGs, but I have never had to grind in any of them in order to complete them.

Last JRPG I played that wasn't pokemon was chrono trigger (on wii virtual console), sure I lost on a couple of fights, but I just redid them and rethought my strategy.

I've also never played an RPG with "unfair bonus bosses" that seem to exist in some games, so maybe I am lucky in that part.

 

[Atmos Duality]

No more than 30 minutes for every 4 hours of gameplay (not including the grind).
And I think I'm being quite generous there, as all grind is fairly worthless as a gaming concept.

Captcha: CRITICISMS Ockingo

3rd Captcha in a row...jeez this is getting obnoxious.

 

[KiwiFresh]

For me level grinding has always been a bit of a tricky beast. If it's actually a bit fun, looking for places to fight unabashedly for hours, I don't mind it all that much. However, once it hits the point of being tedious, or if the fights are so hard that it's counterproductive (draining on gold/potions/some other aspect of the game that's stored for future use) I just give up and move on to some other game. I guess it's all a matter of it being fun or not.

 

[burningdragoon]

I don't have a system or anything, but there are times when the time required for a slight increase in strength becomes far to large to bother. I don't want to say that having to grind is bad game design necessarily, but it kind of is depending on how fun the actual combat is.

I remember about a year or so ago, I was playing the old SNES game 7th Saga through totally legal means *ahem* and after a while the experience given by encounters was pitiful compared to how much was required to level and how dangerous the encounters were, so I flat out stopped playing. I haven't played any new game that was that bad.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I think it's poor design if you need to grind in order to progress in the game.

I haven't really played many RPGs, but I have never had to grind in any of them in order to complete them.

Last JRPG I played that wasn't pokemon was chrono trigger (on wii virtual console), sure I lost on a couple of fights, but I just redid them and rethought my strategy.

I've also never played an RPG with "unfair bonus bosses" that seem to exist in some games, so maybe I am lucky in that part.

In Nocturne, there is usually a hard way to beat a boss and an easy/less hard way. The game expects you to get crushed and learn from your death as to what you need to beat the boss. It isn't bad design, the game just expects you to do your homework.

 

[MammothBlade]

I think it's poor design if you need to grind in order to progress in the game.

I haven't really played many RPGs, but I have never had to grind in any of them in order to complete them.

Last JRPG I played that wasn't pokemon was chrono trigger (on wii virtual console), sure I lost on a couple of fights, but I just redid them and rethought my strategy.

I've also never played an RPG with "unfair bonus bosses" that seem to exist in some games, so maybe I am lucky in that part.

In Nocturne, there is usually a hard way to beat a boss and an easy/less hard way. The game expects you to get crushed and learn from your death as to what you need to beat the boss. It isn't bad design, the game just expects you to do your homework.

Great, am I glad to have a veteran of Nocturne here... I've been grinding in Ikebukuro, and Dante has killed me at least 5 times. His attacks are pretty cheap. So I decided to save up some money to summon (Vile) Arabhaki again. He was rubbish for the battle with Thor, but his Null Physical would prove very handy in dealing with an enemy who is focused on heavy physical damage.

 

[ImProvGamr]

After playing FFXII and realizing that I was spending only 1/3 of my time actually proceeding in the game and 2/3 grinding enough that I could survive the next area (and waiting for my MP to slowly come back), I try to avoid games that make you do excessive grinding, and will give many otherwise good games the boot if I feel that it's grinding hours out of me, except for maybe at the final dungeon. My usual rule of thumb is that most final bosses require you to be in the 50's or 60's range in order for you to be ready for them (assuming a traditional lvl 99/100 cap), so I'll grind to about 55 or 60 near the end; anything after that is usually for completion's sake.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I think it's poor design if you need to grind in order to progress in the game.

I haven't really played many RPGs, but I have never had to grind in any of them in order to complete them.

Last JRPG I played that wasn't pokemon was chrono trigger (on wii virtual console), sure I lost on a couple of fights, but I just redid them and rethought my strategy.

I've also never played an RPG with "unfair bonus bosses" that seem to exist in some games, so maybe I am lucky in that part.

In Nocturne, there is usually a hard way to beat a boss and an easy/less hard way. The game expects you to get crushed and learn from your death as to what you need to beat the boss. It isn't bad design, the game just expects you to do your homework.

Great, am I glad to have a veteran of Nocturne here... I've been grinding in Ikebukuro, and Dante has killed me at least 5 times. His attacks are pretty cheap. So I decided to save up some money to summon (Vile) Arabhaki again. He was rubbish for the battle with Thor, but his Null Physical would prove very handy in dealing with an enemy who is focused on heavy physical damage.

I'm actually just ahead of you (been researching the game, though). Sukukaja is good for the battle as it will reduce criticals (his greatest weapon) and increase your chance to dodge attacks. That Null Physical sounds good as well. Have the MC consume the physical magatama and get the samurai demon as he is a tank against physical attacks. Having a character cast a nerf on Dante every turn will make him waste one of his two turns dispelling it. Having a demon with rakukaja will also help once Dante starts lowering your defense.

 

[RJ 17]

Unless it is insanely high ie More than 1-5 hours I won't bother. FOr anything 1+ hours I just stick on a podcast and have at it.

That's pretty much what I do whenever I find myself in an RPG that demands some grinding. Normally I turn down the sound on whatever game I'm playing and bust out with one of my iTunes playlists.

Last time I played through FF4, I had no trouble pretty much walking through the story up to the Dark Elf's cave. But knowing that I'd have to nerf my party by equipping wooden weapons, I wanted to make sure that my forcefully nerfed characters would be actually useful, which brings me to the point that the OT was asking about:

So, I'm wondering, at what point will you stop grinding?

Personally I don't look at it as a matter of time, I look at it as a matter of objectives. Indeed if I'm saving up enough money to have my party fully equiped with the best gear currently available, then I'll grind my way to however much cash I need in order to get everyone properly outfitted.

In the case I was talking about above with the Dark Elf in FF4, I set a lvl goal for myself. Specifically I decreed that I wouldn't proceed until everyone in my party was at least lvl 35. Sure enough that worked and I was able to breeze through the rest of the game until I got to The Sealed Cave down in the Underground. Before going in, and knowing this dungeon to be a pain in the ass, I decreed that I would not proceed until all my characters were at least lvl 55. Again, this worked like a charm and I was able to breeze right through the rest of the game, even finding Bahamut's cave to be surprisingly easy. So I get to the final dungeon and could have easily gone and beaten the game, but I noticed that all the monsters were going down very easily and giving me MASSIVE exp. So I decided to do some grinding just for the hell of it...and to see if Rydia ever learns Meteo...which she does, at lvl 70 I believe. :3

 

[MammothBlade]

I think it's poor design if you need to grind in order to progress in the game.

I haven't really played many RPGs, but I have never had to grind in any of them in order to complete them.

Last JRPG I played that wasn't pokemon was chrono trigger (on wii virtual console), sure I lost on a couple of fights, but I just redid them and rethought my strategy.

I've also never played an RPG with "unfair bonus bosses" that seem to exist in some games, so maybe I am lucky in that part.

In Nocturne, there is usually a hard way to beat a boss and an easy/less hard way. The game expects you to get crushed and learn from your death as to what you need to beat the boss. It isn't bad design, the game just expects you to do your homework.

Great, am I glad to have a veteran of Nocturne here... I've been grinding in Ikebukuro, and Dante has killed me at least 5 times. His attacks are pretty cheap. So I decided to save up some money to summon (Vile) Arabhaki again. He was rubbish for the battle with Thor, but his Null Physical would prove very handy in dealing with an enemy who is focused on heavy physical damage.

I'm actually just ahead of you (been researching the game, though). Sukukaja is good for the battle as it will reduce criticals (his greatest weapon) and increase your chance to dodge attacks. That Null Physical sounds good as well. Have the MC consume the physical magatama and get the samurai demon as he is a tank against physical attacks. Having a character cast a nerf on Dante every turn will make him waste one of his two turns dispelling it. Having a demon with rakukaja will also help once Dante starts lowering your defense.

Ooh, nice. What's your MC level now? Mine's 32.

My MC has actually mastered the Kamudo (physical) magatama. his STR is pretty high. Though with Narukami (Elec), he has a boosted shock attack which can deal multiple hits. It could probably deal 200 damage if it hit Dante right.

Thanks for the tip. If my current plan of out-tanking Dante doesn't work, I'll try that.