LGBT Community calls the Salvation Army Bigots

[Belaam]

I donated to the Salvation Army until a distant cousin joined and started talking about their theology.

On top of everything else, as both a veteran and someone who has some grasp of the dark and middle ages, a church that gives its members military titles freaks me the heck out.

They do some good work, but a chunk of your money will always go to also helping them push their religion. I'd rather give to a secular charity where a higher percentage of the money I give actually goes to helping people.

 

[AdmiralMemo]

Come on, people... You've got to separate the beliefs from the actions. They're not discriminating in their actions, and Freedom of Religion gives them the right to believe whatever they want, so, what's the problem? Their church stance is separate from their community charity.

 

[tobi the good boy]

Do they actually discriminate with their aid based on sexuality?
Yes?
Well then my opinion of them would be severely altered. If not... well... mostly no.

Well, Norway withdrew any subsisidies from the salvation army for discriminating. In 2003 the Dutch branch nearly tore itself apart when a small minority suggested stopping discrimination. It was literally said they 'feared differing opinions' if they would cease discriminating. Clear surrender to homophobics I'd say.

It was only after a ton of arguing and in 2011 that the salvation army signed a document stating that you shouldn't beat homosexuals up. Oh jolly, you're evil, wrong, sinful, can't join them or be helpled by them, you'll burn in hell forever and should be murdered, but hey, it's not good for the salvation army to lie in wait and beat you up. Where will the advance of civilization ever stop? And it only took untill 2011 for them to take that point of view, wow.

But it's not hatred or discrimination.

Okay, please explain to be how you can label people as evil and sinful over who they are, but not engage in hatred?

Mind you though, it's the exact same sentiment as racism. "You're inferior, because you're black" and the "You're evil, because you're homosexual" is the exact same type of 'reasoning'.

Easy. I'm a moral relativist . I kid, Alright, I can understand where you're coming from now. I was referencing their direct involvement with people as being an example of them not hating or discriminating. i.e. How they help anyone in need despite the factor of their sexual orientation. I 'Think' you've taken the stance that this doesn't constitute actual points of not discriminating because they still hold a negative view towards homosexuality due to their religious ties. So it's a matter of 'Do actions speak louder than words?' (Please tell me I got it right, if not help me out here.)

 

[Comando96]

Do they actually discriminate with their aid based on sexuality?
Yes?
Well then my opinion of them would be severely altered. If not... well... mostly no.

Well, Norway withdrew any subsisidies from the salvation army for discriminating. In 2003 the Dutch branch nearly tore itself apart when a small minority suggested stopping discrimination. It was literally said they 'feared differing opinions' if they would cease discriminating. Clear surrender to homophobics I'd say.

It was only after a ton of arguing and in 2011 that the salvation army signed a document stating that you shouldn't beat homosexuals up. Oh jolly, you're evil, wrong, sinful, can't join them or be helpled by them, you'll burn in hell forever and should be murdered, but hey, it's not good for the salvation army to lie in wait and beat you up. Where will the advance of civilization ever stop? And it only took untill 2011 for them to take that point of view, wow.

Norway... who aren't in the European Union and aren't subject to the Human Rights act (which includes discrimination). Clearly the SA... (haha SA xD) differ vastly from country to country, like in the UK... where they couldn't get away with being homophobic in a million years due to firstly the secular climate, as well as the Human Rights Act kicking the shit out of them if they were to try any of that.

Hmm... interesting.

Seems the senior management motives are vastly different to those of the people in that local charity shop >.>

My opinion of the senior management is now a pretty bad one.
The rank and file people... they're nice in my country and I don't plan going over to Norway anytime soon xD

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

They do some good work, but a chunk of your money will always go to also helping them push their religion.

Actually, it doesn't. The Salvation Army essentially runs 2 parallel organisations and money from the charity side is never shifted to the church side.

I'd rather give to a secular charity where a higher percentage of the money I give actually goes to helping people.

If you can find a secular charity that matches, let alone surpasses, the Salvation Army's 80c in the $1 reaching the people in need then by all means donate to them... but the number that do is depressingly small. If you're serious about committing to donating Medicins sans Frontieres (Doctors without Borders) are bound by their own rules to use a minimum of 80% of their donated revenue for their programs.

 

[Belaam]

Actually, it doesn't. The Salvation Army essentially runs 2 parallel organisations and money from the charity side is never shifted to the church side.

A few issues.

1) According to Charitynavigator.org, they don't actually publicly release their numbers, so there's no way of knowing exactly how their money is used. They, as many religious charities do, hide under Internal Revenue Code from filing Form 990 as a "church or convention or association of churches." Thus avoiding publicizing what they do with their funds.

2) Everything they do has the name of their church all over it. Google "salvation army soup kitchen" and you'll see mass marketing of their church at each and every event. Using donations to make a Salvation Army themed soup kitchen is still making use of donations to get the name of their church out there. They are not parallel organizations when even your semis have the name of your church all over them. Its marketing.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

why the fuck is a charity using/funding lobbyists?

The church has used/funded lobbyists. They don't need to dip into the charity funds for that and trying to would just result in a giant shitstorm.

 

[girzwald]

LGBT calls anyone who doesn't bend their knee and cowtow to their beliefs, bigots.

This just in, grass is green. And 10 cents is a dime.

More at 11.

 

[sharks9]

Well, it's hard to get a definitive statement out of them.

Uh, the OP contains a definitive statement from them saying they DO NOT discriminate based on sexuality.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Actually, it doesn't. The Salvation Army essentially runs 2 parallel organisations and money from the charity side is never shifted to the church side.

A few issues.

1) According to Charitynavigator.org, they don't actually publicly release their numbers, so there's no way of knowing exactly how their money is used. They, as many religious charities do, hide under Internal Revenue Code from filing Form 990 as a "church or convention or association of churches." Thus avoiding publicizing what they do with their funds.

Indeed but would you trust the American Institute of Philanthropy, a public non-profit group who's purpose is to crawl up the arses of charities and see what they're up to, who have done a thorough auditing of the Salvation Army's US districts' books?

They are not parallel organizations when even your semis have the name of your church all over them.

Parallel doesn't mean they're independent of one another.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Uh, the OP contains a definitive statement from them saying they DO NOT discriminate based on sexuality.

At least they don't when it comes to their charity work... the church side of things is somewhat different, as to be expected from an off-shoot of old school Methodist ideology.

 

[Sylvine]

Edit: Yes, having hatred toward any idea or person is bigotry.

Then, in that narrow definition of bigotry, I do say it is moral and right to be a bigot about some things.

~Sylv

 

[RuralGamer]

There are a lot of great people in the SA, just a pity there are a small group that ruin their overall image; my high school banned them from visiting after this really bigoted woman came and basically said "I'm going to heaven, you're all going to hell because you aren't in the Salvation Army, ha ha."

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

my high school banned them from visiting after this really bigoted woman came and basically said "I'm going to heaven, you're all going to hell because you aren't in the Salvation Army, ha ha."

***** needs to be smacked upside the head with a euphonium.

 

[AdmiralMemo]

LGBT calls anyone who doesn't bend their knee and cowtow to their beliefs, bigots.

This just in, grass is green. And 10 cents is a dime.

More at 11.

+1

Edit: Yes, having hatred toward any idea or person is bigotry.

Then, in that narrow definition of bigotry, I do say it is moral and right to be a bigot about some things.

~Sylv

I am very proud to be bigoted against murder, then.

 

[girzwald]

just by reading your post it is obvious you despise their practices or even them as a ministry, doesn't that make you the bigot toward them. Or is it only hate when it's being directed at something you agree with?

Just a thought.

Does despising bigotry make You a bigot?

Just a thought.

~Sylv

Edit: Yes, having hatred toward any idea or person is bigotry.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigotry

1.
stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
2.
the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.

Your definition is incorrect.

 

[The_Critic]

just by reading your post it is obvious you despise their practices or even them as a ministry, doesn't that make you the bigot toward them. Or is it only hate when it's being directed at something you agree with?

Just a thought.

Does despising bigotry make You a bigot?

Just a thought.

~Sylv

Edit: Yes, having hatred toward any idea or person is bigotry.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigotry

1.
stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
2.
the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.

Your definition is incorrect.

I stand corrected, but my main point is still valid. If you have complete intolerance for a christian, or a christian organization, and their beliefs on homosexuality you are bigoted toward them.

 

[Belaam]

Indeed but would you trust the American Institute of Philanthropy, a public non-profit group who's purpose is to crawl up the arses of charities and see what they're up to, who have done a thorough auditing of the Salvation Army's US districts' books?

They sound promising... I checked them out. They had an article expressing concern about how the Salvation Army is run. The bigger point is not how well I trust various groups that rate charitable agencies, but how well I trust an organization that says, "give us your money, but know that we refuse to make public what we are doing with that money." Which is exactly what the Salvation Army does. And that is what I don't trust.

Parallel doesn't mean they're independent of one another.

Exactly. If I give $1,000 to a soup kitchen, I want it to go for food, not to building a garish trailer covered with brightly painted Salvation Army signs. If there is a collection at a church for an orphanage, I want that money to go to helping the kids, not to building a sign outside the orphanage proclaiming which church is running the orphanage. At the end of the day, putting money in a red kettle is no different than putting it in a church collection plate. You certainly assume some of the money is going to help people, but you never really know and because they are, at their core, a church, not a charity, you will never publicly see what they do with the funds. They have legally declared themselves a church, and so can avoid any sort of scrutiny as to what they do with the funds.

 

[Nemu]

Also, I don't think the LGBT community came together with a unified voice and called the salvation army bigots. Its probably just a few blokes.

God, I hope so. I know that the true opinions of many are unheard from silent mouths while the loudest claim to represent them, but some days, I really, REALLY wonder.

I'm part of the community and I shake my head at those loudmouths. I don't agree with SA politically, but I know that I live in cold-a** New England and winter is coming, so folks will need SA's help and the 10 bucks I feed into the bucket will help somehow.