LGBT in Video Games

[Bostur]

I don't have much of an opinion on an LGBT community, because it isn't part of my life or the society I live in. I have known a few gay people, but as far as I know they didn't need to make a community or ideology out of their sexuality. They were just people. Some people prefer beer, some people prefer wine, some people prefer partners of the same sex and some people like to dress up in leather. Unless I'm about to sleep with someone I don't really care and it doesn't matter much to me. The whole idea of a sexual community feels odd somehow.


I think it's a bit strange to focus on sexuality in art and litterature in general. Sometimes it's important for the subject, but I don't see why the sexuality of an action hero matters. As a matter of fact I find it odd when games and movies put sexual labels on characters for no other reason than to use labels. I don't really need to know when they go to the bathroom either, or what colour socks they prefer.
If a story is about the sexuality of a character then it matters. But if the story is about killing the ancient evil, sexuality seems to just be used as a cheap gimmick to cater for certain minorities. And I wonder why some people of those minorities don't notice they are being commercialized in such a narrow-minded way. But I don't mind it much either as long as the subject is used tastefully, and if it makes someone happy thats fine by me.

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

Actually the situation about Poison's gender has been answered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_(Final_Fight)

The creator has stated that in the JAPANESE version Poison is a crossdressing man, with his junk tucked in. In the North American version, Poison is a post-op transexual, having been a man at one time but is now functionally female due to surgery.

This confusion is one of the reasons why Poison has not appeared in many games, since they would have to write it a bit differantly based on region due to how they wrote it in previous games.

Given the character's interest in Cody, Poison is apparently gay (as opposed to a straight crossdresser) in the Japanese version.

Either way this is a LGBT character, since it hits one of those designations either way.

Oh I'm quite aware, I've wiki'd poison in the past, but I just get the impression they quietly retconned her (back) into a full female seeing how she'll feature in Street Fighter X Tekken with a voice actress providing her vocals, granted, she could still be transgender but either way Capcom stopped making a big deal about her, or well, I suppose they never did since you had to read the Final Fight manual to find out about her gender issues.

 

[BlindedHunter]

Hello, interesting thread.
Speaking for the record as a technically pansexual person, I regard the LGBT community with no great love or hate. As the persons and sexualities and views that comprise it go, I identify essentially with the view that it is a personal issue that ought not cause anyone to be singled out, be limited, or face bias for any reason.
Certainly individuals will always have their various views, but at the least institutions like the government should be given not an inch of power in limiting the rights of those people therein, and past that people need to learn more about all the varieties there and reach a point of legitimate understanding of the ways they feel and think as well as how one should communicate toward or about them without being offensive regardless of how one feels about it. It can be really difficult to step around gender-related issues that are both very personal and deeply involved with our culture, but I think it is important that that be managed.
(Woah, that was more rant-y than I wanted.)

As those views and that community relate to the world of video games, I'd most like to see things like it tactfully mentioned off-hand as well as accepted as drives for the story in games, but I do not think it needs to be brought to a point of being as common as all other stories or that it needs to be particularly flamboyant - at that point it seems like you are trying to turn bias the other way, or simply trying to make a spectacle of the issue.
On that note, I do think people need to be a little less reactive to the ways an individual gay or lesbian or bisexual may be presented. If a lesbian is depicted as very athletic and rough-mannered that should not be taken as a bad thing. It is if a game makes it clear that the developers think all lesbians fall into exactly one personality group that I can say there is an issue that needs to be rectified. Also anything that clearly indicates a developer attitude of hate toward a group, of course.

 

[fleurdust]

There's a very interesting book which makes a good point about the fact that people quite often say 'I'm okay with gay people, but I don't see why they have to go on about it/I don't want them to push it in my face' or any sort of variation. You wouldn't ever get someone complaining that someone who was straight was 'going on about it' by, say, mentioning their partner, but for someone who is gay that can become really uncomfortable. In 'normal' situations, people might feel odd about saying something that wouldn't be looked twice at if they were straight. Outside of gaming, that might be, for example, explaining a work absence because your significant other is ill. A straight man can just say 'my wife', a gay man would have to 'draw attention' to himself by saying his boyfriend, or else try to conceal it somehow.

To be honest, I haven't had that many in-game encounters with other actual players that somehow involved sexuality, but there was that issue with the LGBT-friendly guild in WoW and I imagine it does crop up quite a lot, and most likely people's attitudes are very similar, which is a shame. Games seem to be doing gay NPCs slightly more, I'm thinking games that include relationships like Fable, Dragon Age, and now Skryim. Personally I like the way Bethesda handled it when people starting bringing it up, just being a bit like, 'yeah, so what?' Fable seemed to make it out to be quite a novelty, at least in the first one, with all the men your character might fall for acting in a very similar way. I mean, that's fine, but a little variety would be nice.

Personally, I've never had even the slightest hang up, nor would I treat someone differently because of their sexuality any more than I would for their hair colour. And if someone wants to chat about their crush or their significant other, they can go for it whatever the gender of the people involved.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I'm depressed to say that the best depiction of a normal gay person was in the freaking Phantasmagoria sequel. It didn't effect the character much beyond a couple conversation topics, and the game didn't make a big deal of it.

Yep... the least stereotyped and possibly most likable gay character I can think of comes from a schlocky point and click B grade FMV horror adventure game.

;_;

On another note, I'm rather disappointed in the straight community every time they declare lesbians to be awesome and gays to be disgusting. And by "rather disappointed" I mean "die inside from shame".

Trevor was the best character in that game.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

...This is all coming from anecdotal evidence...

There's your problem.

How snarky of you. Let me ask you this though. What a person thinks or acts upon is based off his or her own experience with the world, right? We rely on what we learn from experience to make the best most accurate judgments on society and life, you'd be a fool not to. The truth of the matter is that whenever I read something on this matter, the basic message always seems to "you can't prove anything, so accept it." Which is a crock of lies, because their is plenty of behaviorist evidence supporting the contrary. I am just not satisfied with people saying everyone is the same so just deal with it. Differences do exist, and if we don't acknowledge them then we will never advance as a society.

Um, I'm a girl whose been with the same guy for five years. I'm happy in our sex life, and I want to have his children and spend the rest of my life with him. In short, I'm in love with him. But, that doesn't mean that I don't get really turned on by other girls sometimes, and I have fooled around with girls before. I can assure you I'm not "resisting the knowledge that I'm queer." And, let's be frank here, queer just means odd. I know I'm odd. I revel in my oddity. I'm also mostly straight. I don't think I could have a long term relationship with a woman, because that's not what I want out of life. But if I feel this way, I have NO DOUBT that there are true bisexuals out there. Just because you yourself have never considered yourself attracted to another member of your sex doesn't mean the rest of the world can't.

Well I gave an explanation earlier in this thread (look for it, it'll only take a second), so read that if you want a clearer understanding. The gist of it is women have a different biology than men, so them fooling around with other women is alright because the chemistry that makes them female ain't the same as males.

Cite the sources. Because you are making a sweeping claim based off of no evidence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexuality
http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/23/bisexual-men-science-says-theyre-real/
Small study, but it is more than you are bringing forth. And is less biased in the recruiting then the study in 2005 was.

 

[Mr Pantomime]

I always find it so funny that people have no problem with sexuality til theres more than one. Personally, I think LGBT make a lot of people uncomfortable. They have no real problem with it, its just a bit weird to them. Theres also some odd stigma that gay men are sex crazed rapists. Not that anyone would admit it. I guess it goes into the whole moral indecency thing.

 

[semal]

I agree with most people that bisexuality shouldn't be considered a lifestyle or type of sexual preference. It just seems like they really love the sex and broadened the base of people they could take it from. I totally understand that stuff since sex is awesome, I just personally don't think that should be a sexual preference... seeing as I am sure they could pick a favorite of the two, which would mean they have a preference.

Too bad it doesn't work that way. You cannot shut off how you feel. (Believe me I have tried that for a long time - and I'm not talking specifically about sexuality, but generally about emotion here. One day it just spills over and you have to deal with the mess.)

I would really like to think that the people here discussing this topic are all intelligent and reasonable. But rather than just reading what's been written so far, I feel like there's a perpetual repetition of "me too" comments, and, worse yet perpetual ignorance of topics that have been already very well explained in this very thread.

But the worst yet is the ever so pervasive notion that "If I don't understand X then how can it exist?". Well just because Quantum Mechanics blows your noodle doesn't mean that there aren't any smart folks out there who have a pretty good idea what it's all about.

The last thing that really irks me is guys commenting along the lines of: "I'm fine with gay as long as they don't hit on me." - Don't flatter yourself

 

[semal]

I have no idea why you quoted me. You didn't talk about a single thing I said? Can you explain why you decided to pick my quote out when you were going to say nothing in regards to it. And add text? I am just curious.

Actually, the first paragraph in my post tries to address the snippet I quoted from you: You cannot just decide to no longer feel drawn towards (wo)men and live your life as h(omo|etero)sexual, because it's much more convenient. That doesn't work. And because she puts it so much better in words than I possibly could, here's Arwyn's passing for straight http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2011/05/passing-for-straight-two-years-later/

I'd really encourage everybody to read through this entire thread. There are some real gems to be found here.

 

[Raika]

The only game I know of with a transgender char is Neir and I heard they really toned that down for the american release... although I'm not sure if she was a transgender or just had both sexes.

Kaine is not transgendered, she's intersexed or a 'hermaphrodite'(although I'm told that term is rather crass). Poison from Final Fight is transgendered, and Shirogane Naoto from Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 is heavily implied to be female-to-male. He's also the reason why I'm not going to play that game. They force him into a dress. That poor bastard.

 

[Drunkfather]

To me, I don't see an issue with homosexuality in gaming. I think we place far to much emphasis on labeling any and everything we encounter. Maybe that system helps us rationalize things, I'm not sure. I, myself, am a heterosexual married male. I don't think my sexuality, my race, or etc. gives any indication as to what kind of person I am. My identity is more than my sexual preference. I think the question TC brings up is the problem. Why does it matter, generally speaking? The fact we notice such issues is what is troubling. From a personal perspective, I think sex should be more of the minority in a game. I agree with one post that made a comparison to ending of Metroid. I think something tasteful with the ending scene of two same sex individuals holding hands would be ideal and sufficient. In the dialog driven RPGs, where you have different love interests, the homosexual characters are overly done in my opinion. A good example that comes to mind is Anders from Dragon Age 2, he is one of the only characters who continually broadcasts his sexuality. I don't mind his existence and I don't mind his sexuality, however I feel he was placed to serve a purpose and in that, it made him feel fake and false. Also, since the question included transgendered people, I, again this a personal opinion, have no interest in playing again with that being a major subplot. I don't understand it. I, personally, feel most of people of this type struggle for an identity. I feel questions of this nature are what encourages people to become transgendered. I will stop here before I risk offending anyone. I will note, I am tolerant of it. However, I don't have any interest in supporting it.

 

[Daffy F]

Bisexuality doesn't exist, it's just someone resisting the knowledge that they are queer.

Hey now, I consider myself 'bisexual', if you will. Are you telling me that my preference for both men and women (people in general) doesn't exist? You're telling me, and other like-minded individuals that we're lying to ourselves because we "can't handle the truth"?

This guy obviously has no idea what he's talking about (The guy you quoted). Don't worry too much about what he says, he has probably never been friends/known a bisexual person well.

 

[Therumancer]

Actually the situation about Poison's gender has been answered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_(Final_Fight)

The creator has stated that in the JAPANESE version Poison is a crossdressing man, with his junk tucked in. In the North American version, Poison is a post-op transexual, having been a man at one time but is now functionally female due to surgery.

This confusion is one of the reasons why Poison has not appeared in many games, since they would have to write it a bit differantly based on region due to how they wrote it in previous games.

Given the character's interest in Cody, Poison is apparently gay (as opposed to a straight crossdresser) in the Japanese version.

Either way this is a LGBT character, since it hits one of those designations either way.

Oh I'm quite aware, I've wiki'd poison in the past, but I just get the impression they quietly retconned her (back) into a full female seeing how she'll feature in Street Fighter X Tekken with a voice actress providing her vocals, granted, she could still be transgender but either way Capcom stopped making a big deal about her, or well, I suppose they never did since you had to read the Final Fight manual to find out about her gender issues.

Well at the same time, it could also be said that this is what the LBGT community claims they want, a character that is like this but where it isn't pointed out to the point of being the only character trait.

Either version of Poison is not supposed to be noticably male as part of the character, Poison is not a BAD/obvious crossdressed in the Japanese version and passes as a girl, probably being the quintessential "trap". Right up there with that guy I was reading about not too long ago who was being promoted as the sexiest girl in asia, and honestly I couldn't have told from the photos being shown. Using a female voice actress also makes sense because you'd assume if anyone could get the voice perfect it would be this character.

I'm not a huge fan of the LGBT community to begin with, but it will be interesting to see if upon some big game apperances this character is embraced, or despite being exactly what it claims to want fault is found with it. The battle is worth more politically and attention wise than a solution, which is half the problem with politics in the US.

 

[SuperDarkLink]

I don't mind them. I've met gays and lesbians and i have no problem with them. its only when a lesbian gives me a dirty look that i get pissy. here's an example in case you dont get what i mean. I work at a restaurant. one night while i was doing stuff in preperation for closing the dining room two girls came in one was dressed in a waitress uniform the other wearing a shirt and some jeans. as i took the order of the uniformed girl her friend was giving me a look so hate filled i could practically see it dripping from her eye sockets. after the uniformed girl finished and paid and i filled her order she and the other went to go sit. the girl in jeans gave me one last hate-filled look before giving me a cold shoulder.

 

[Takolin]

In the dialog driven RPGs, where you have different love interests, the homosexual characters are overly done in my opinion. A good example that comes to mind is Anders from Dragon Age 2, he is one of the only characters who continually broadcasts his sexuality. I don't mind his existence and I don't mind his sexuality, however I feel he was placed to serve a purpose and in that, it made him feel fake and false.

I don't agree with what you wrote here. Anders only ever forces his sexuality on you in 1 occasion (where you have no other options but to accept or deny his options) and does this for both the female and the male Hawke. Apart from that you can always chose to ignore the romance options much like you can do with the other characters.

 

[KiloFox]

i happen to be a bisexual male gamer in a gay relationship, and i've never really noticed much influence from the LGBT community in gaming much at all, unless it's a character who's sexuality BECOMES their character... i personally don't flaunt my sexuality like it's the latest fad, and unless i practically tell someone, nobody can really tell that i'm bi. gamers online over mic DO use a lot of "hate speech" (calling things gay, ******, etc) but it dosn't particularly BOTHER me... words are just words and if we take the power away from them then they STAY just words with no effect. but i was raised in a particularly homophobic manner/area, so i'm quite used to it already, and back when i thought i was straight like everyone else, i used speech like that quite a lot. but that's really the only influence or reference i SEE in gaming. though if a game does have a LGBT influence dosn't mean that i'm going to look at it more simply for that one addition. GTA releasing the Gay Tony add-on didn't make me want to play GTA any (i've never been a fan of the series, and the add-on didn't make me change my mind even the slightest) and i'm still looking forward to Mass Effect 3 because it's MASS EFFECT THREE and i played (and thoroughly enjoyed) the first two, and NOT because i want the ability to have a gay relationship with one of the characters. (which i totally saw coming because you could make a female character and get the Asari relationship. which almost no matter HOW you look at it is a lesbian relationship. expanding on that was quite obviously going to happen) true, i don't see much influence from the LGBT community in gaming, but do i really need to? would it really make a difference for the better? i don't think so. sexuality isn't typically addressed in games, and when it is, it is too easily made a defining characteristic for a character. and that has a tendency to reinforce stereotypes and such things.

so i guess my point is that i don't see much of it, and think that we really shouldn't see more, and possibly less. though games DO need to get away from the "love interest" trend. almost EVERY game whenever a female character is introduced there's a damn good chance that she's some guy's (usually the main character's for various reasons. usually to make them feel more human and for you to root for them more) love interest in the game and dosn't fill much more of a role than that. a trend that games need to back away from. (but then again i never used to see Zelda as Link's love interest... he was rescuing her as his civic duty to the kingdom. but i only ever beat Link to the Past which is apparently the best Zelda game out there according to several friends [all Zelda fanatics] and yes... Ocarina is their second)

EDIT: i DID forget about the homosexual options in Dragon Age (until i saw an earlier post), but to my credit, i havn't played them yet... so i'm not addressing them.

 

[PinochetIsMyBro]

I wish they'd stop demanding things be inserted into games just for them, I also wish they'd stop crying about a representation of their group they dislike or think is a stereotype.

Essentially I want them to stop acting like every other group of people who thinks they're "special" and that video games should cater more to them.

If video game designers don't want any gay characters in their game, it's their choice. If they want their game to be full of flaming hard gay stereotypes, also their choice. If they want their games to paint a representative picture of society, still their choice.

None of these decisions should be influenced by pressure from outside sources.