LGBT topics in Video Games

[Verlander]

I'd like to see it, but as games are generally made by these big, money wanting conglomerates, I don't see the topic being handled sufficiently well enough to warrant even trying.

 

[siahsargus]

Seriously, this is very sensitive. The reaction over Dragon Age 2 is a great example. Gay people and myself feel that the inclusion of a gay option at all is showing movement forward, whereas the traditionally homophobic 18-25 demographic seem to hate that the gay option was included at all. I think having a gay protagonist, or at least have a non-stereotypical major character be gay is definitely a move in the right direction.

 

[Zaik]

No.

That's entirely pointless and it has absolutely nothing to do with video games at all.

Anyone who puts it in them is just trying to "send a message", and games trying to send a message have all unanimously been terrible.

So what stories and ideas would you say are not pointless and have absolutely nothing to do with videogames? Are you against anything more complicated than 'Here are bad guys kill them kthxbi'?

There are always going to be games without interesting stories, characters and morals. We should encourage the rarer games that do, even if they are trying to send a message. Just because they haven't been successful before doesn't mean they can't improve, and if they don't improve the variety and quality of storytelling in videogames won't either.

What the hell are you talking about? Is this is some sort of elaborate ad hominem attack?

I wouldn't play a video game authored by Fox News to make conservatives look like deities, and I wouldn't play a game authored by some self-tortured gay guy trying to "fight for his rights".

Their message will always, now and forever, come before making anything of any real value.

There are plenty of films and books which have messages which are still considered great - I'm just saying that we shouldn't dismiss games that try to do the same. I don't understand why having a message must prevent a game having value. Hell, at least having a message means the writers are probably passionate about what their doing, as opposed to generic war games and such.
(and an ad hominem attack would be me attacking you personally instead of your points, and I dont think I really did that)

That's great when it's something you agree with. When it's something you *don't* agree with, you can't appreciate it at all. When it's something you don't care about at all, it just seems preachy and pretentious.

Want proof? Here's a quick one I thought up.

A gay mastermind creates a laser that can turn people gay. His plan is to fire it at the moon, and have it reflect down to the Earth and turn the whole world gay. You and your allies are the only people who realize that this would be the total destruction of the human race, because the only means of procreation that would remain would be willing surrogate mothers, which are few and far between. The "message" is that gay people don't procreate, and that the author thinks it is bad.

All the sudden "sending messages" doesn't sound so great once they're not ones you agree with, right?

Also you suggested that because I don't like media that "sends a message", all the sudden I can't appreciate a game that has a story greater than "go kill guys". That's ad hominem.

Actually, I think i might play a game like that... Of course, if it was going to be a real game, the moral of the story should be about the ethics of mind control and the morality of changing someone's orientation just because it is 'undesirable'. But that premise would be likely bring in a whole demographic of paranoid homophobic fans (a small subset?) of militant fiction.

I actually like games with an over the top message that turn out to have a more subtle meaning behind their bombastic presentation. See: "Liberal Crime Squad".

That would probably be a better way to deliver the story to the people who don't actually care about what it means, but it wouldn't be received any better or worse by a vast majority of the people it was intended to reach.

 

[Sejs Cube]

Do you think that there shud be more LGBT topics in Video games.

If it serves to further the story or the development of the character, sure. If it doesn't, then don't force it because shoehorning things that don't have bearing on story, character, or setting simply because it's socially relevant and the author wants to force discussion, that's bad storytelling.

 

[Hong Meiling]

I don't really mind either way. I think romance and sex in games are often more used to sell copies than actually handle them appropriately.

 

[LeonardoDaFinchy]

I want to see a gay Nathan Drake. Badass, physically fit, attractive without being stunning. The only thing that indicates that he may be gay is that he refuses the advances of the female love interest. No gay sex scenes, no hitting on guys, no 'positive' gay indicators, just the simple refusal of an offer that a straight character would jump at.

Could be subtle, challenge stereotypes and all that.

 

[omega 616]

Nah, what does leliana liking the soft touch of a woman have to do with ferelden being taken over by darkspawn or what Loghain is up to?

So what if the guy you get your dragon scale stuff from likes his partner more than just friends?

A charcters sexuality doesn't need to feature in anything other than a soap, in a soap you can have two people of the same and one is attracted to the other but the other is straight and how that gets dealt with over the course of many episodes.

In a 40 hour game, were people would rather be killing rather than talking it has no place. Even in games such as The sims, it's nothing more than "hehehe, I made two lesbians but I am not going to make two gays!".

Maybe that just my nature of not caring, let alone not caring which sex you prefer.

 

[moretimethansense]

Gay issues?

I don't know, how would you define gay issues.
For that matter how would you descrbe straight issues?

Gay charecters?
Absolutely, there is literally no good reason not to, so long as it isn't used a a marketing point.

Homosexuals are people just like you(?) and me(? ), the moment people stop making a big deal of it one way or the other the world will be a much better place.

 

[moretimethansense]

In a 40 hour game, were people would rather be killing rather than talking it has no place. Even in games such as The sims, it's nothing more than "hehehe, I made two lesbians but I am not going to make two gays!".

I am offended by this, first off if you care more about killing than talking you sir are playing the wrong genre of games.
I'm going to go make a gay couple in The Sims Media#val just to spite you now.
And I'm going to flesh them out and make it believable too, just you wait!

 

[Freechoice]

Having them for the sake of having them is inappropriate and disrespectful.

Oh, and the proper term is LGBTQ. If you want to be as PC as possible, QUILTBAG.

Queer/Questioning
Undecided
Intersex
Lesbian
Trangender
Bisexual
Asexual
Gay

I shit you not.

 

[omega 616]

In a 40 hour game, were people would rather be killing rather than talking it has no place. Even in games such as The sims, it's nothing more than "hehehe, I made two lesbians but I am not going to make two gays!".

I am offended by this, first off if you care more about killing than talking you sir are playing the wrong genre of games.
I'm going to go make a gay couple in The Sims Media#val just to spite you now.
And I'm going to flesh them out and make it believable too, just you wait!

Ok, I might have been a touch heavy heanded. If the talking leads to people being stabbed in the back and/or a nice twist then I am interested, if it turns out my bestest friend is gay I don't care.

What does his preferance have to do with me? It is like saying he doesn't like carrots, what does it matter?

 

[icyneesan]

I don't have a problem with real world problems portrayed in my video games, nor do I have a problem with 2 men or 2 women in love/doing it/getting married in my video games as long as its done in a tasteful way. If anyone has a problem with me being okay with it or developers being okay with it then...

 

[moretimethansense]

In a 40 hour game, were people would rather be killing rather than talking it has no place. Even in games such as The sims, it's nothing more than "hehehe, I made two lesbians but I am not going to make two gays!".

I am offended by this, first off if you care more about killing than talking you sir are playing the wrong genre of games.
I'm going to go make a gay couple in The Sims Media#val just to spite you now.
And I'm going to flesh them out and make it believable too, just you wait!

Ok, I might have been a touch heavy heanded. If the talking leads to people being stabbed in the back and/or a nice twist then I am interested, if it turns out my bestest friend is gay I don't care.

What does his preferance have to do with me? It is like saying he doesn't like carrots, what does it matter?

It matters about as much as anybody's sexuality matters, plus it affects their characterization and backstory.

And bny the way, think about what you said for a minuite, imagine that your bestest best freind in real life were gay, wouldn't it affect your outlook somewhat?

For example you may or may not be offended by homophobia (I don't know you and I'd rather not guess), but let's assume that you are, if you overhear someone insulting gays you may be offended by their views but it doesn't really affect you, if your best freind were gay you may take it personally as they are by extension insulting your freind and are insinuating that he is les of a person simply by virtue of being gay.

Of course it makes a difference, every little thing that happens to us changes and shapes our world view, imagine what an entirely different sexual identity would do to your personality.

 

[omega 616]

In a 40 hour game, were people would rather be killing rather than talking it has no place. Even in games such as The sims, it's nothing more than "hehehe, I made two lesbians but I am not going to make two gays!".

I am offended by this, first off if you care more about killing than talking you sir are playing the wrong genre of games.
I'm going to go make a gay couple in The Sims Media#val just to spite you now.
And I'm going to flesh them out and make it believable too, just you wait!

Ok, I might have been a touch heavy heanded. If the talking leads to people being stabbed in the back and/or a nice twist then I am interested, if it turns out my bestest friend is gay I don't care.

What does his preferance have to do with me? It is like saying he doesn't like carrots, what does it matter?

It matters about as much as anybody's sexuality matters, plus it affects their characterization and backstory.

And bny the way, think about what you said for a minuite, imagine that your bestest best freind in real life were gay, wouldn't it affect your outlook somewhat?

For example you may or may not be offended by homophobia (I don't know you and I'd rather not guess), but let's assume that you are, if you overhear someone insulting gays you may be offended by their views but it doesn't really affect you, if your best freind were gay you may take it personally as they are by extension insulting your freind and are insinuating that he is les of a person simply by virtue of being gay.

Of course it makes a difference, every little thing that happens to us changes and shapes our world view, imagine what an entirely different sexual identity would do to your personality.

I had a gay friend, I say had 'cos I used to live with him and now I don't 'cos I was forced to move out due to living there too long.

To me he was just another person, the fact that he liked boys meant nothing. If somebody were to insult him it would be his problem not mine, I am not going to be insulted for him. If he wants to say something to them, thats his call but it's none of my business.

 

[moretimethansense]

I had a gay friend, I say had 'cos I used to live with him and now I don't 'cos I was forced to move out due to living there too long.

To me he was just another person, the fact that he liked boys meant nothing. If somebody were to insult him it would be his problem not mine, I am not going to be insulted for him. If he wants to say something to them, thats his call but it's none of my business.

Fair enough I suppose, but I'm willing to bet it mattered to him.

As I said earlier, every thing we see and do changes the way we think in sometimes subtle, sometimes drastic ways, if he weren't gay he may have had an entirely different personality.

EG. I have a freind whom was bullied somewhat at schhool and recieved quite a bit of physical and mental abuse at home.
If it weren't for that we'd never have becaome freinds, we have very little in common personality wise but we can relate easily due to having gone through similar events in our lives.
Hell, we'd likely never have met.
My oldest freind has asburgers syndrome, without it he's be a very different person and again, we'd likely never have been freinds as it was his social problems combined with his utter lack of sham that made him approach a stranger and invite jim to play(we were six).

My point is, his homosexuality does matter to you as he may have been a totally different person without it.

To sum up:
There's no reason NOT to have gay charecters in games, and having gay charecters allows for more varied backstories and motivations.

Though if I may ask you a question:
Do you feel the same way about heterosexual charecters in games?
Cause if not you may just be a little bit biased.

 

[omega 616]

I had a gay friend, I say had 'cos I used to live with him and now I don't 'cos I was forced to move out due to living there too long.

To me he was just another person, the fact that he liked boys meant nothing. If somebody were to insult him it would be his problem not mine, I am not going to be insulted for him. If he wants to say something to them, thats his call but it's none of my business.

Fair enough I suppose, but I'm willing to bet it mattered to him.

As I said earlier, every thing we see and do changes the way we think in sometimes subtle, sometimes drastic ways, if he weren't gay he may have had an entirely different personality.

EG. I have a freind whom was bullied somewhat at schhool and recieved quite a bit of physical and mental abuse at home.
If it weren't for that we'd never have becaome freinds, we have very little in common personality wise but we can relate easily due to having gone through similar events in our lives.
Hell, we'd likely never have met.
My oldest freind has asburgers syndrome, without it he's be a very different person and again, we'd likely never have been freinds as it was his social problems combined with his utter lack of sham that made him approach a stranger and invite jim to play(we were six).

My point is, his homosexuality does matter to you as he may have been a totally different person without it.

To sum up:
There's no reason NOT to have gay charecters in games, and having gay charecters allows for more varied backstories and motivations.

Though if I may ask you a question:
Do you feel the same way about heterosexual charecters in games?
Cause if not you may just be a little bit biased.

The way I see it is, all the people in the game are a sexual till otherwise stated. Even if they do have sex how will effect (affect?) the story or there chacter? I was going to use DA:O as an example of what I meant but I have only done a play through were I "did" morrigan, so I have no idea how the story unfolds if you don't "DO" anybody or have a lesbian or a gay man, I would imagine the story wouldn't be all that different.

I get what you mean by your story but how does that translate into a game? You could get to the same point with any configuration of gay/lesbian/straight/bi/a sexual just with different, to go with your example that dad of the person your playing could have beaten the person for not being straight or for being straight and wanted to ballet instead of football.

They might have been picked on in school for there sexuality or 'cos they had big teeth and glasses, there still getting bullied.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[moretimethansense]

The way I see it is, all the people in the game are a sexual till otherwise stated. Even if they do have sex how will effect (affect?) the story or there chacter? I was going to use DA:O as an example of what I meant but I have only done a play through were I "did" morrigan, so I have no idea how the story unfolds if you don't "DO" anybody or have a lesbian or a gay man, I would imagine the story wouldn't be all that different.

I get what you mean by your story but how does that translate into a game? You could get to the same point with any configuration of gay/lesbian/straight/bi/a sexual just with different, to go with your example that dad of the person your playing could have beaten the person for not being straight or for being straight and wanted to ballet instead of football.

They might have been picked on in school for there sexuality or 'cos they had big teeth and glasses, there still getting bullied.

I hope that makes sense.

Context, I know I'm not good at explaining things but the ending of DA(for example) has a very different context if you romance morrigan to if you don't and another different context if you befreind her but don't pursue the romance with her.

The point I'm trying (and apparantly failing) to get across is that it does matter.

For example in Harry Potter, word of god says that Dumbledore is gay and may have been in loive with Grindlwald, now you might say that it makes no difference, but it changes the context of the battle between him and Grindlwald in his backstory.
In one version he was betrayed by and then killed his best freind, in the other it was the man he loved.
It makes rather a big difference.

Now granted that's hardl;y the best example but imagine if a charecters sexuality were written in to them from the start, it makes a difference.

Besides which, as I have said a few times now, there's simply no good reason NOT to.
To illustrate my point I'm going to ask you, why should they put black charecters in to games?
It doesn't affect how they play so why do they feel the need to?

The only reason this is even a question is that homosexuality still isn't fully accepted, I mean how many times have you heard people say "I'm not homophobic but, I don't want to see two guys kissing, it's gross."?

 

[Thaluikhain]

I don't see how it's an issue.

The existence of games with homosexual characters in them doesn't stop the existence of dozens more that doesn't have them. People allergic to playing video games with gay characters aren't been forced to play them. If, for some reason, you can't bear to play DA2 because of the homosexual elements, you might be able to find some other game somewhere which doesn't have any.

The only possible reason for people not wanting homosexuality in games would seem to be people thinking that homosexuality (or, at least the creation of a game for a different target audience) is flat out wrong and shouldn't be done.

 

[KingofallCosmos]

Having them for the sake of having them is inappropriate and disrespectful.

Oh, and the proper term is LGBTQ. If you want to be as PC as possible, QUILTBAG.

Queer/Questioning
Undecided
Intersex
Lesbian
Trangender
Bisexual
Asexual
Gay

I shit you not.

I get your point, but doesn't it strike you as odd, maybe not PC that they throw 8 different lifestyles in one heap? It's almost saying everyone that's not normal.