LGBT topics in Video Games

[valleyshrew]

LGBT topics should be explored meaningfully in a game like GTA. It's a bit less suitable in mass effect where it's half-assed and gratuitous. Gay tony didn't merely exist for a sex minigame. Fallout New Vegas had a lot of gay characters but the issue wasn't explored at all and you could play without knowing any of them were gay. That's not a flaw, but it would be nice if perhaps Caesar's Legion were homophobic and it came up a little more or something. Homosexuals are probably the most persecuted large group of people on Earth. Many countries (nearly all Islamic states) still have the death penalty for them, and very few countries allow them equal rights. Hate crimes and bullying are rarely not a huge issue in gay peoples lives. GTA seems to be the only game series that's a meaningful social commentary.

Most game characters do not express their sexuality. Who's to say that Gordon Freeman isn't homosexual? It generally only comes up if a game has sex scenes. And certainly not in linear games.

 

[ten.to.ten]

LGBT topics should be explored meaningfully in a game like GTA. It's a bit less suitable in mass effect where it's half-assed and gratuitous. Gay tony didn't merely exist for a sex minigame. Fallout New Vegas had a lot of gay characters but the issue wasn't explored at all and you could play without knowing any of them were gay. That's not a flaw, but it would be nice if perhaps Caesar's Legion were homophobic and it came up a little more or something. Homosexuals are probably the most persecuted large group of people on Earth. Many countries (nearly all Islamic states) still have the death penalty for them, and very few countries allow them equal rights. Hate crimes and bullying are rarely not a huge issue in gay peoples lives. GTA is the best game series for meaningful social commentary (if not the only one) on subjects like this.

Most game characters do not express their sexuality. Who's to say that Gordon Freeman isn't homosexual? It generally only comes up if a game has sex scenes. And certainly not in linear games.

Totally agree about GTA, GTAIV in particular has featured some of the best, fairest and most accurate (at least from a humorous perspective) representations of gay characters in any videogame, ever. I also though they handled a lot of other social issues incredibly well, particularly illegal immigration.

I remember in New Vegas, there's a gay character at the Mojave Outpost (can't remember the name) who mentions that they're not open with their sexuality because the Mojave is a bit more homophobic than where they're originally from, but that was the only time in the game that it was brought up. Generally I thought of the Fallout series that because they take place so far into the future (and in an alternative timeline) that people are generally past sexuality being an issue, which was why, particularly in Vegas itself, homosexuality seemed to be very much accepted.

Speaking of Fallout, Flak and Shrapnel and Carol and Greta from Fallout 3 were two fantastic examples of gay couples, too.

 

[seraphmaclay]

LGBT topics should be explored meaningfully in a game like GTA. It's a bit less suitable in mass effect where it's half-assed and gratuitous. Gay tony didn't merely exist for a sex minigame. Fallout New Vegas had a lot of gay characters but the issue wasn't explored at all and you could play without knowing any of them were gay. That's not a flaw, but it would be nice if perhaps Caesar's Legion were homophobic and it came up a little more or something. Homosexuals are probably the most persecuted large group of people on Earth. Many countries (nearly all Islamic states) still have the death penalty for them, and very few countries allow them equal rights. Hate crimes and bullying are rarely not a huge issue in gay peoples lives. GTA seems to be the only game series that's a meaningful social commentary.

Most game characters do not express their sexuality. Who's to say that Gordon Freeman isn't homosexual? It generally only comes up if a game has sex scenes. And certainly not in linear games.

I agree that Rockstar has done well at incorporating LGBT stereotypes into the GTA series, but not so much the reality. Gay Tony is easily a cut and paste stereotypical, flamboyant, gay, club owner, and while is character has purpose beyond that...that's the slate they started with. A little more depth would've been enjoyed, and people like that do exist, so it wasn't a bad portrayal.

Caesar's Legion weren't probably homophobic at all, just saying. Based on a lot of what their culture is, it would be very hard for them if they hated a number of themselves.

Anyway, the thing I was building towards...hate crimes and bullying are an issue. Just because you personally don't see it, do not for half a second think that it doesn't exist in large quantity. Hell...go on Xbox Live for 10 minutes...this message will still be here. It still happens far too often for it to be called unusual. Calling it 'rare' though...that kinda digs into either your being misinformed or uneducated on the subject.

 

[AyreonMaiden]

Only if presented tastefully (read: REALISTICALLY, exploring all facets of the issue, the good, the bad and the ugly), with subtlety (read: NOT preaching, leaving me to make up my own decisions), and with respect to plot and characters (read: NOT shoehorned into it at random)

This is also how I'd love all my "issues" to be handled in games, not just LGBT ones.

 

[Pearwood]

I thought it was adorable when she said that... I said that about a girl I liked once, she appreciated the compliment, but she didn't like me that way.

It can be a nice compliment but her delivery was what made it creepy.

 

[seraphmaclay]

Having them for the sake of having them is inappropriate and disrespectful.

Oh, and the proper term is LGBTQ. If you want to be as PC as possible, QUILTBAG.

Queer/Questioning
Undecided
Intersex
Lesbian
Trangender
Bisexual
Asexual
Gay

I shit you not.

I get your point, but doesn't it strike you as odd, maybe not PC that they throw 8 different lifestyles in one heap? It's almost saying everyone that's not normal.

That's not even half of them thrown into the same heap.

 

[Micalas]

Can someone remind me exactly what Anders said when he hit on you? My warrior was a guy but I swear I don't remember him hitting on me.

 

[Verp]

I don't know about LGBT "topics", I just wish there were okay representations of non-cis/non-heterosexual people. I don't need a big spotlight over them either or any concrete lessons learned through them, I just want them to at least be there, have some presence. I especially wish there were more characters whose gender is unmistakably non-binary -- the closest example I can think of are the friggin' Magypsies from Mother 3.

Nothing wrong with Magypsies, they're just, err... Very camp.

EDIT: And no, I don't want them to be just stuffed in there by force. But, whenever you ask yourself something like "Should I make this character bisexual" and the answer you come up with is "Well, why not?".... Well, why not?

 

[OctoH]

If it is well-written, then yes. I am not heterosexual, and I do not really enjoy terribly written plots, GLBT-themed or not. Also, I did not really have a problem with the romances of DA2. I do not get why so many people take issue with that aspect of the game.

 

[Woodsey]

No.

That's entirely pointless and it has absolutely nothing to do with video games at all.

Anyone who puts it in them is just trying to "send a message", and games trying to send a message have all unanimously been terrible.

Mafia and The Sands of Time (and 100s of other games) would like to have a word with you.

OT: I see no reason why that couldn't be a theme. You're basically playing with the same coin as when games deal with racism, so I don't see why you couldn't do it with sexuality.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Do you think that there shud be more LGBT topics in Video games.

Yes. Yes! A thousand times yes.

I'm always very happy when video games touch on LGBT topics. Persona 4 was vastly improved by two characters with LGBT issues (gay and trans specifically). I loved those character interactions and dungeons.

That's right, people who haven't played Persona 4 - there's a closeted gay dungeon and a transgender dungeon (in addition to the rebellion dungeon, the self-loathing dungeon, the crisis of identity dungeon, the childish innocence dungeon, and the completely insane psycho killer dungeon).

Seeing the characters' emotional problems through the dungeon metaphors in Persona allowed the player to experience that state not only through dialog but also through the gameplay. Brilliantly done.

I wish more games explored this important part of the human experience.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

FFXIII - Fang and Vanille, if you haven't played it, I wouldn't blame you, but yeah...front and center.

Yes! Thank you!

**grins**

Actually, that was one of the reasons they were my favorite characters. I love Fang and Vanille's relationship. It's subtle, but at the same time very obvious in how they react to one another.

Anyway....

 

[Shirokurou]

I think the video game industry needs more lesbians...

What?

 

[Shirokurou]

Mostly, we are talking about RPG's that I've noticed, however "alphabet soup" (earlier I saw someone start in with the LGBTQQIU...didn't even get started good by the way, and LGBT generally covers it all for simplicity's sake) has permeated gaming since the '80's with not one, but two transwomen still in gaming today, Birdo and Poison, which is kind of odd art imitating life, but if you know anything about Civil Rights around Sexuality and Gender Orientation, you probably know that, or well, you should, but we're not talking about rights...we're talking about topics.

So, right there, you have a beat'em up/fighter and a platformer with two LGBT characters who are found throughout both games. Since then though, LGBT characters have found their way into numerous games, but three companies have stood out as actually being able to do something good with it; Bioware (KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age), Square Enix (Final Fantasy Series, mostly, though a few others), and Atlus (Shin Megami Tensei series, specifically, Persona 4).

I'm not big on spoilers, so I'm not really going to explain all of these, but if I slip into spoiler territory, here's your warning.

I think Knights of the Old Republic was the first of these I noticed (mostly because my RPG experiences beforehand were Pokemon and Zelda, and while Tingle is running around in Rosy Rupeeland, there's really not much in either of those). The character of Juhani is just a character. Nothing really different about her. She's quiet, she keeps to herself, she's had a turgid past, but she wants to do right in the world (I played as a Jedi and not Sith, so, yeah). As you get to know her though, especially when playing as a female, you learn pretty late in the game that the reason she joined the Jedi order, and the reason she let her emotions get the better of her with her master, was that she basically had a crush on a Jedi Knight off to war...a female one at that. It's implied that after the game, she went off with the other Jedi who is perpetually worried about her.

I'm gonna stay away from the Atlus games in general, just because I've only played through a few of them, and then only just the one time, and go into Squenix territory.

Squaresoft was an interesting company over its span as its own entity...and when talking about LGBT topics in gaming, they're flagship series is the easiest place to look. Even after the merger with Enix, the company has continued to include LGBT characters and situations in their stories. So, let's just run down the FF Games LGBT stuff, as it's one of the top series in gaming period.

FFIII - Arc...not much else to stay there, as nothing was ever touched on it, and it's mostly speculative, but yeah, even if he wasn't meant to be, he certainly comes off as such. Also, since Arc didn't really exist as his own character until the remake, this may should find its way deeper on this list, but oh well.

FFV - Princess Sarah in this one was quite a bit different than her previous incarnations (FFI, FFIII). In this version, his name is Faris Scherwiz. And that's just the beginning. Faris is a pirate captain, and for the first five hours of the game, that's all you know about him. Get a little deeper, you find out that he is a she, and not that as the game progresses, but that she's a Princess. Whether or not Faris is transgender is up to debate, as the game continually keeps pronouns about the character pretty neutral, and that at the end, she does run off to join her crew after becoming bored with the throne.

FFVII - Situation Cross Dressing, and we're leaving it at that...because, swarms of fangirls scare even me...and I'm one of them...just not for him. Oh, and the gym owner that helps him, definitely.

FFVIII - It's there, but more for humors sake than anything else, with a brief cameo by a trans NPC.

Also Squall gets asked whether he's a woman and the player can say "yes"

FFXIII - Fang and Vanille, if you haven't played it, I wouldn't blame you, but yeah...front and center.

I actually ship FangxLight aka FLight. It's also pretty much there if you squint really hard.

Final Fantasy IV:
In Fabul, a monk pretends to be Dancing Girl until the player talks to him. He then reveals his true identity and dances about. There is implied to be another crossdresser in Troia by the name of "Stella".

Final Fantasy Tactics:

In the Midlight's Deep, the player can sometime encounter a male Time Mage enemy who screams like a female when defeated, dubbed as "Dragqueen" by fans. It is unknown if the character is a bug or intentional, but he only appears in that dungeon. The player can recruit the Dragqueen by the use of Orator and his sprite will change to a female Time Mage but retains the male portrait, being essentially a female unit who has access to the female-exclusive equipments and the job class Dancer rather than male-exclusive Bard. If used as a Dancer, the Dragqueen's sprite and portrait will use the Bard's set with the job command "Dance".

Additionally, Cloud and Onion Knights can equip Perfume and Lipstick accessories, which can otherwise only be equipped by female characters.

From the wikia. they have an entry on crossdressing

 

[Shikua]

Dear Fenris,
I think I love you. Marry me?
~Shikua

Dear Shikua,
Yes, definitely!
~Fenris

It's a date then!
~With love, Shikua

Captcha: rdsedd Tumor

Why does our date have a tumour? D:
~<3 Fenris

It's okay. I pretended to be a Doctor in a game once. I can handle this.
~ <3 <3 Shikua

Oh, good! We can be happy forevah now! >w<
~<3<3<3, Fenris

Yaaaaayyy! *snuggle*

~<3<3<3<3 Shikua

 

[Elijin]

For a topic which is asking for the discussion of a concept to help more people understand something...wouldn't...oh I dont know. Actually writing what your discussing, rather then just using an abbreviation, be like, super important?

Because....not everyone instantly picks up on various slang and shortening.

Like me, I only have a vague idea what we're talking about from reading replies.

 

[seraphmaclay]

For a topic which is asking for the discussion of a concept to help more people understand something...wouldn't...oh I dont know. Actually writing what your discussing, rather then just using an abbreviation, be like, super important?

Because....not everyone instantly picks up on various slang and shortening.

Like me, I only have a vague idea what we're talking about from reading replies.

What exactly are you having trouble understanding, Elijin? Ask, and I'm sure one of us can answer.

 

[Elijin]

Prior to this topic I hadnt ever encountered 'LGBT'. I've worked out more or less what it is through reading replies, but I still think it was a bit odd to create a topic abour promoting understanding, but then doing it in a way which forces them to know already or be left in the dark. Like the original post didnt exactly shed much light on what he was talking about.

 

[Therumancer]

Do you think that there shud be more LGBT topics in Video games.

i reckon yeah because it may teach understanding which cud mean less discrimination and theres a hell of alot of that.

or even something about yourself that you didn't know may even help with a problem.


please explain your answers

Not really, one thing that people tend to keep forgetting is that we're dealing with an incredibly tiny number of people overall. I already think that there is too much coverage of this kind of thing in the media already. This kind of material really caters to a small group of people, and is actively unappealing to everyone else. Even if your not anti-gay, if your not gay then that kind of material is a turn off, or something you just don't care about, so wasting all that time and content on it is rather pointless.

Right now the only reason why this is an issue is because homosexuality has become a hot button topic. Like it or not the nessicary battles have been fought and run, you can't FORCE people to like or accept a group, what's more you already have a pretty fair representation given their numbers throughout society. Anything else right now is designed to generate contreversy, or push for more than actual equality entails. See, by it's very nature you can't really have minority groups getting an even split with the majority. Especially when you start to look at all the minority groups demanding a piece. The occasional mention of something for a small group is fair. Discrimination is when you actively work to remove specific groups of people from plotlines and stories when they should be present. Such as doing a movie based on a book where a character is gay, but then either removing that character or making them straight.

The issue with these kinds of topics is as much being beaten upside the head with them as anything. See, a gay prescence doesn't need to offend you, to be bugged by games where your constantly being propositioned by members of the same gender. If anything this kind of "in your face" treatment of homosexuality is going to backfire, because it's pretty much reinforcing the attitude that guys have to worry about being peeped on, flirted with, or
felt up by other dudes if they are gay when they aren't interested. Basically we need less
of it, and we need it to be substantially lower key than it is now.


In general I am fairly anti-gay men though (which I will state to be fair). I won't go into a rant about this, as it will go nowhere good, and there are probably some back messages with my overall thoughts on the subject (which have nothing to do with religion). For whatever that is worth. I am however not someone who gets into some kind of uncomfortable, frothing rage at the merest mention of gay men. For the purposes of most arguements I really don't give a crap. Homosexuality exists, and as such I see no reason to pretend it doesn't in the media, I'm not going to boycott something because it's present, however at the same time I don't think I need to be beaten over the head with it constantly.