Libyan woman who claimed rape release, is prostititute? o.O?
- Thread starter emeraldrafael
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Ofc it's rape even if she is a prostitute...like beating a boxer to death in the streets is manslaughter 
Prostitute or not, rape is a serious issue when presented. Although, I'd take anything Gadhafi's government says with a very, very small (and somewhat fractured) grain of salt anyday, at that.
Prostitutes have just as much right to life and their well-being as anyone else.
Prostitutes have just as much right to life and their well-being as anyone else.
You speak about the West and the fact that it shouldn't interfere in the social customs and practices of other cultures, but you certainly seem to have no issue with condemning certain individuals within those societies and trivializing horrific events that happen to them because of what they are. Do you what the word "hypocrite" means, sir?emeraldrafael said:
I believe in honor myself, but you sir, have a very, very sexist (Victorian) manner of viewing that concept.
What?Littlee300 said:
Prostitution comes with an incredibly high risk of disease, physical injury and murder, not to mention social and psychological problems like dissociation, alcoholism, drug abuse and suicide. Look at the actual statistics before you come out with weird generalizations.
And seriously, are we still working on the assumption that people go along to careers fairs and choose to become prostitutes despite the wide range of other options available to them, so naturally anything that happens to them as a result is fair game?
1) You're arguing this based on points of the compass? Have a little more cultural specificity than that.emeraldrafael said:
2) This woman is not from 'the West' and you're merrily dismissing her perspective and her opinion the grounds that it doesn't fit in with what you think her country and culture is like? Wow, I can feel the cultural sensitivity.
You're taking a particular view of what Libyan Islamic culture is like which you've likely only encountered in books and newspapers and saying that this person should be judged by the standards of that culture as you see it. Why? She's a part of that culture too, and she believes she's been raped.. why should her opinion matter any less to you than those of anyone else? She's a person, she's Libyan, what right do you have to say that she's not a part of that culture?
You're also utterly ignoring her wishes. She literally fought through a cordon to get to Western journalists so she could tell this story. Would she have done that if she didn't want you to have an opinion? Do you think it's cultural respect to apathetically shrug it off?
Much as you might think you're the neutral voice of cross-cultural understanding you have already chosen to listen to particular people, usually people in power and authority rather than people who are powerless victims of abuse. Culture is not sacred and immutable, it is always exclusive and it always changes.
There is always the danger of trying to "save" brown women from brown men, and you're right to be concerned by it. But blindly ignoring people's expressed wishes and profound acts of abuse just because it's 'cultural' is really no better.
3) Rape is almost always difficult to prove. That doesn't mean you can afford to ignore it.
Does it really matter whether or not she is a prostitute? At the end of the day she is a human being and if she has been forced into sex against her will, then yes, it is classified as rape, no matter what her profession is. But since one of the people was the son of a high ranking official then she doesn't stand a chance. I am not saying that I am going to say she is telling the complete truth because I don't know the full story, but to say that "she is a prostitute... this is her line of work" is abhorrent. She can deny service any time she wants to.
The core reason for nearly all human actions is the hope to achieve satisfaction on the short or the long run - that's also why societies have been set up in the first place. If a society is not able to ensure this goal, it only seems reasonable to make an effort to change it for good. Because it is your life and your fellow human beings' which are and will be majorly affected by this environment. So this is not a question of cultural perspectives, but rather of human sense.
Nevertheless, as cultures and societies are shaped and carried by individuals, there are always persons who selfishly evoke peer pressure and abuse ideological, social and gender specific differences for their own interests. But as long as you profit from it or are not directly victimized yourself, it's quite easy to close your eyes and refer to cultural tolerace. Still, (culturally tolerated/legitimized) discrimination and sexual expoltation has a long tradition around the whole globe. So it does not come very surprising, that women living in strongly patriarchic countries get silenced and loathed for making their abuse public and are officially declared disturbers of social peace.
Iman al-Obeidi's case is only one of plenty and I highly doubt that she would have contacted the international press for no reason, considering the consequences she might have to face. Even if she was a prostitute and therefore 'honorless' in the eyes of society according to emeraldrafael - why wouldn't this also speak for a misjudged martyr for human dignity, an attempt to make a change? Public opinions and social structures can be very wrongful, especially when they are based on prejudices and the lack of proper information. BTW: As far as I can read from different sources, al-Obeidi used to work as a lawyer (already posted links on page 1).
Furthermore, you can compare all professions to each other on a very simple level: They all involve selling your time, work and by this your body with which you operate (at least to a certain degree). What really makes the difference though are the cicumstances under which they are executed. For prostitution you don't need a graduation, however it is with no doubt a physically and mentally dangerous job. The majority of people who are working as prostitutes despite these risks, either don't have better prospects, are not aware of their situation or are being forced to - or more than one of these things. Human trafficking with the aim of sexual exploitation of women and minors e.g. is actually a very present, but highly underrated global problem with mainly (rich) western destination countries (inform yourselves!).
In any case, the larger framework of economical, educational, political and social affairs in which prositution and discrimination takes place is set and influenceable by societies themselves. So blaming socially disadvantaged members of the population for their chanceless situation while treating them as scum really speaks for a legitimate, honorable social order, doesn't it?
Nevertheless, as cultures and societies are shaped and carried by individuals, there are always persons who selfishly evoke peer pressure and abuse ideological, social and gender specific differences for their own interests. But as long as you profit from it or are not directly victimized yourself, it's quite easy to close your eyes and refer to cultural tolerace. Still, (culturally tolerated/legitimized) discrimination and sexual expoltation has a long tradition around the whole globe. So it does not come very surprising, that women living in strongly patriarchic countries get silenced and loathed for making their abuse public and are officially declared disturbers of social peace.
Iman al-Obeidi's case is only one of plenty and I highly doubt that she would have contacted the international press for no reason, considering the consequences she might have to face. Even if she was a prostitute and therefore 'honorless' in the eyes of society according to emeraldrafael - why wouldn't this also speak for a misjudged martyr for human dignity, an attempt to make a change? Public opinions and social structures can be very wrongful, especially when they are based on prejudices and the lack of proper information. BTW: As far as I can read from different sources, al-Obeidi used to work as a lawyer (already posted links on page 1).
Furthermore, you can compare all professions to each other on a very simple level: They all involve selling your time, work and by this your body with which you operate (at least to a certain degree). What really makes the difference though are the cicumstances under which they are executed. For prostitution you don't need a graduation, however it is with no doubt a physically and mentally dangerous job. The majority of people who are working as prostitutes despite these risks, either don't have better prospects, are not aware of their situation or are being forced to - or more than one of these things. Human trafficking with the aim of sexual exploitation of women and minors e.g. is actually a very present, but highly underrated global problem with mainly (rich) western destination countries (inform yourselves!).
In any case, the larger framework of economical, educational, political and social affairs in which prositution and discrimination takes place is set and influenceable by societies themselves. So blaming socially disadvantaged members of the population for their chanceless situation while treating them as scum really speaks for a legitimate, honorable social order, doesn't it?
I guess shoplifting. The prostitute has still given a form of consent.Qizx said:
OT: Leaning in favor of the victim here. The libyan army isn't exactly in the running for "most disciplined militia 2011" now, are they?
Being a prostitute is not implied consent for rape. Just because you sell sex, doesn't mean that you can't still be raped. Just because you're willing to have sex with one person, whether for money or not, doesn't mean that you're willing to have sex with another.binnsyboy said:
That's like saying a woman who gets forcibly passed off to another guy by her husband or boyfriend, is implying consent that that are willing to have sex because they were willing to have sex with their boyfriend/husband.
God, no! The question was if someone had sex with a prostitute and THEN refused to give the agreed payment that was requested after, that would be closer to shoplifting, because the prostitute, anticipating payment, had still consented. I wasn't saying that being a prostitute gives everyone a free pass.Screamarie said:
