Lies they teach you in HIstory class

[lostclause]

I'm seeing this all the time on The Escapist now: where is this ideas that 'the Russians are really the ones who won WWII' coming from?

Let' be fair and say that Russia suffered the most losses and damage. A huge percentage of the causilties from WW2 were Russian. No they didn't win the war on their own but the allies would have been royally screwed if Hitler hadn't invaded Russia. Imaging how hard it would be to invade France and Italy if the Germans hadn't spent huge forces trying to conquer Moscow. It would have been very hard.

 

[PatientGrasshopper]

Hitler made a pact with Russia in 1939 as he knew Germnay couldnt survive a war on two fronts. The fact that he led Germnay into one is his biggest blunder of the war.[/quote]

This is exactly my theory too, I think his biggest military blunder was breaking his pact with Russia when he did. I am talking from a strategic standpoint and not defending Hitler's actions at all.

The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality.

No, see, that's a lie. Communism doesn't mean Dictatorship, just like Capitalism and Democracy are not synonymous.

Democracy is a form of Capitalism, Communism is a form of Socialism, and Fascism is Socialist with some Capitalistic elements.

I was taught that England and France disapproved of the US for having slavery; what I wasn't taught was that they were ready to side with the Confederacy on the issue when it came down to war. Russia was the only country to support the Union North.

I was taught that America had internment camps for the Japanese in WW2; what I wasn't taught was that we weren't the only country that did that. Also, I was never taught about the concentration camps that the Japanese had for the Chinese. Unit 731 camps.

I feel like this needs a clause because things they told me when I was kid such as: Columbus discovered America and was nice to the native americans--was eventually refuted in either high school or college or through my own research.

Like--I was pretty much taught that there has always been tension between Russia and America--but that's not true. But I don't feel like they lied so much as left things out. Which amounts to nearly the same thing.

For a while in my parent's day, they didn't even teach about the Japanese camps and even more recently they started admitting to the Italian camps, also some people still deny the Armenian genocide. Also, yes a lot of this is cleared up in high school, but there is still some that continues to be taught even up through college.

[...] Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something. [...]

I think you're referring to the popular idea that the gold standard should have been kept. The problem with a fixed amount of money is that although you surely have no inflation, you are likely to get deflation, which is the opposite but just as bad.
With a constant amount of money and an increasing amount of goods, you'll get more goods for your money. Sounds good, but businesses will think its not worth producing for that few money and stop doing so. Eventually, you might even wind up with negative economic growth (as eventually less goods are produced).
That is why the central banks try to reach "price stability" and increase the amount of money with the increasing amount of goods.

At least gold is measurable whereas the Government printed money has nothing to say how much it is worth.

I was tought in school that the Great Irish Famine, in the middle of the 19th century, which wiped more than half the population of Ireland, was basically Britian's fault.

yea the Irish blame everything on Britain, a natural disaster, Briatain did it.

 

[Acaroid]

I am trying to compile a list of lies or misinformation they teach you in History class. So far this doesn't even apply to current events which would make this list far more interesting. Do you have any you think you want to add or any rebuttals. Also note for those in other countries, this is written from an American perspective.
Lie #1
Communism and Fascism are opposites. The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality. In fact the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker'S Party.
Lie #2
Europe was better under Stalin than Hitler. The fact is Stalin was responsible for more deaths in Europe than Hitler was.
Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.
Lie #4
The civil war was fought primarily over slavery. The fact is, although slavery was on issue,the main one was state's rights vs. Federal power. If the main focus was slavery than states like Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri would have joined the South, they had slaves and were Northern states, and additionally the Emancipation Proclamation didn't apply to them.

not sure if it has been done yet

I was told the Korean war begun 25 June 1950 and finished in 27 July 1953

officially it still isnt over. Only an armistice was made not a peace treaty. It even says int he peace treaty "until a final peaceful settlement is achieved." To date, this settlement ? otherwise known as a peace treaty has never occurred. One attempt was made, at the Geneva Convention of 1954, but nothing came of it. Interestingly, the Armistice wasn't signed at all by South Korea but rather by the head honchos in the United Nations Command, North Korea's army, and China's army. It should also be noted that the conflict in Korea wasn't technically a "war," because like so many other post-WWII hostilities there was no formal declaration of war. Since the war had never been declared, it was fitting that the should be no official ending.

So history class lied in saying the war started and finished at all lol. officially anyway

 

[sabotstarr]

True, but overall he did kill more of every type of person than Hitler could of ever done. But yes due to the fact that they were just being killed for killing peoples sake, the Jews do not have as bad of an impression of him.
P.S. also people forget that he intentionally starved his population killing millions...That doesn't get covered in most history classes.

Err, you're referring to Ukraine I believe where it's debated whether or not he intended to cause a famine or if it was an accident of collectivisation. Yes he killed more but it raises the question is it more acceptable to kill more for the aquisition of power than fewer out of an irrational grudge? Personally I don't think there's a right answer to that.

so true....so true

 

[PatientGrasshopper]

Well then I feel scared

I guess I jus have some cake to..
NO THE CAKE IS A LIE TOO

Actually that is a lie, the cake is in fact real.

Snip

Actually, it was more about the principle of Federalism: see, the Bill of Rights only applied to the *Federal* government when passed. At the time, it was still perfectly okay for the individual states to allow a church position to come with a political position:

From 1780 Massachusetts had a system which required every man to belong to a church, and permitted each church to tax its members, but forbade any law requiring that it be of any particular denomination. This was objected to, as in practice establishing the Congregational Church, the majority denomination, and was abolished in 1833.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States#ref_MA

Yes, Jefferson's statement was in regard to incorporating the first amendment to the states.

However, most people understand the concept of "separation of church and state" as the actual principle of government not establishing or controlling religion.

I was addressing the idea that people quote "separation of church and state" to justify removing the ten commandments from courthouses, removing prayer from government meetings, taking "under God" out of the pledge, or "In God we Trust" off of money.

The first amendment just says that Congress cannot establish a national religion. Jefferson's statement was about incorporating it to the states as well. The supreme court has since held it to the Judicial and Excutive branches of the Federal government, and also to the States in the early 1900's. Regardless of to whom it is held, it does not say "no God in government", it says "Government will not establish or control a church".

EDIT: Fixed quote markup.

Exactly, but people still try.

Ugh, everyone in this thread seems to not realize that the political spectrum is non-linear; the terms "left" and "right" are only one dimension of this concept. Imagine for a moment a Cartesian grid where the -x axis represents left-wing policy and the +x represents right-wing policy. On this grid, the +y axis would represent strong centralized government while the -y axis would represent no centralized government.

On both ends of the political spectrum (left and right), there are philosophies that advocate both strong centralized government and no central government. For example, on the extreme left both Communism and Anarchism advocate philosophies whereby people rule themselves. On the extreme right, you have philosophies such as Objectivism and Libertarianism which also similarly advocate for a decentralized or non-existent government, but do so with the intent of turning the world into one where only the fittest and most intelligent survive. They differ solely in their ideals of what they posit would happen in the absence of government; generally, left-wingers believe that everyone will hold hands and cooperate to make society as a whole better while right-wingers believe that everyone will tear each others' throats out whilst raping each others' daughters.

By contrast, both the left and right have ideologies advocating strong centralized government. On the extreme left you have Fascism, which is about as centralized a government as one can get. A less extreme left ideology would be Socialism which does not have the hallmark authoritarian control of Fascism but does place a lot of power in the central governing body. On the right, there are two forms of governance which are functionally identical to Fascism and Socialism. For Socialism, there is the hard paternalist state/police state (the latter being the more pejorative term) which resembles Socialism to a T minus the happy, fuzzy idealism. For Fascism, you have a monarchy/religious state which is again, functionally similar to Fascism except they force women to stay in the kitchen and make sandwiches.

Yes it is more complex than it is often said to be, simple left and right are not sufficient except one point of contention I will say is that libertarians and Anarchy are closely related in fact some libertarians are anarchists.

Who cares what they teach you in history class?

It's not that you will remember and still give a crap about it in 5 years...

If your major is history (like me), I guess it's pretty important. Even if you don't find history interesting, it still have a faily great use.

-The methods for learning history trains your long-term memory.
-If you plan to study in human sciences, you need to know the past.
-If you do research (in pretty much any subjects), good chance you'll look in the past.
-History is tied with culture. If you study in art/music/publicity/etc., you'll need to know a few past events.

And plenty other reasons to listen in your history class. (I'm pretty tired now).

Also, those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it, and it seems like every generation repeats the mistakes of the last because we have not learned from history.

Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.

This sounds like economics, not history. Anyway, you're wrong. Lack of inflation means the economy is not growing, which is bad. Even a gold backed economy is risky and subject to inflation. If say a large amount of previously unavailable gold were discovered, the value of gold would drop significantly. And even in a gold system, it's only valuable because we say it is.

In some ways, the system in which the government can determine the amount of available in the market is superior. It is not subject to massive and uncontrollable changes in value, and a centralized system keeps things in order. Of course human error is sure enough to find a way to stick it's hands in there.

Edit: Oh, and just skimming through this I have seen a lot of things presented as lies that I actually learned the truth about in history class. I think it's less them spreading lies and more you people not listening.

You are right rather than History I should have broadened it.
Yes more gold means its value will go down this is true but the same can be said for money being printed by the government except with gold there is only a limited supply to be found it is nonrenewable, whereas the government can keep printing money. Also, the money the government makes is only valuable because they say it is, try to use a US dollar in other countries, most won't accept it while gold is considered to have value in most places.

# what ever number is next

The united states went into Iraq without support from many(or any) fellow countries. Strait from the text book

Truth: The united states went into Iraq(militarily) with 29 fellow countries including Britain, Canada, Ect.

wow, seriously that is messed up.

In the US I'm assuming lol, tbh it really shouldnt be required since people should learn to research it themselves, rather than being hand fed it.

Exactly, sometimes you can learn more reaserching something on your on than you can in school.

I am trying to compile a list of lies or misinformation they teach you in History class. So far this doesn't even apply to current events which would make this list far more interesting. Do you have any you think you want to add or any rebuttals. Also note for those in other countries, this is written from an American perspective.
Lie #1
Communism and Fascism are opposites. The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality. In fact the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker'S Party.
Lie #2
Europe was better under Stalin than Hitler. The fact is Stalin was responsible for more deaths in Europe than Hitler was.
Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.
Lie #4
The civil war was fought primarily over slavery. The fact is, although slavery was on issue,the main one was state's rights vs. Federal power. If the main focus was slavery than states like Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri would have joined the South, they had slaves and were Northern states, and additionally the Emancipation Proclamation didn't apply to them.

Lol you n00b. Communism is the opposite of Fascism because communism has another economy system and is social, as fascism is not social and capitalist. Also the "National socialist German worker's party" was just a name to get voters you n00b. Learn your facts and stop trying to be clever. Commusnism also was never run really, all Eastern countries ran on "real socialism". communisn also doesn't have to be a dictatorship. Learn about politics before you try to tell ppl something, you're just like some wanabe clever n00b who doesn't knows shit about the world.

If you want to debate, at least come up with better arguments than that. You really said a lot of nothing there and used ad ad hominem

 

[lostclause]

No--the Irish blame the British for (1) creating the conditions that allowed for a natural disaster by economically exploiting the Irish to the point where there was no diversity in their food source which made them vulnerable to a disaster in the first place and then (2) mismanaging the disaster response since, you know--the British government was in control of Ireland.

I think that it wasn't so much that there was no food but that there was no money. They were economically reliant on the potato and when it failed they had nothing to sell and therefore no money. I don't think that lack of other foods was a serious problem compared to their poverty. I could be wrong about this it's just my way of interpreting it.

 

[martin's a madman]

I am trying to compile a list of lies or misinformation they teach you in History class. So far this doesn't even apply to current events which would make this list far more interesting. Do you have any you think you want to add or any rebuttals. Also note for those in other countries, this is written from an American perspective.
Lie #1
Communism and Fascism are opposites. The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality. In fact the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker'S Party.
Lie #2
Europe was better under Stalin than Hitler. The fact is Stalin was responsible for more deaths in Europe than Hitler was.
Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.
Lie #4
The civil war was fought primarily over slavery. The fact is, although slavery was on issue,the main one was state's rights vs. Federal power. If the main focus was slavery than states like Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri would have joined the South, they had slaves and were Northern states, and additionally the Emancipation Proclamation didn't apply to them.

Firstly, equating socialism to communism, and also to fascism is retarded. If that assertion was true, do you really think Europe would still have socialist governments? The truth is that there never has been a truly by the letter communist state, and even if there was it would suck. The Nazis were socialist in the same way that many African countries are democratic republics... you know, with military dictators. How then do you account for the corporations that did quite well under the Nazis? Socialism? You are correct in saying fascism is not the opposite of communism. It is indeed it's own beast away from the normal political spectrum. It has come and gone under many names and "ideologies" but in the end it always characterized by being an authoritarian military state with one hell of an attitude problem.

What you said about not being true communism. Very true, even the USSR was the United Soviet SOCIALIST Republic.

 

[lostclause]

If they had other foods, times might have been tough, but they wouldn't have starved the way they did. The famine wasn't because of something that effected all agricultural products--it was pretty much just the potato.

Kinda like being forced to invest in only one company--even if the market is okay, you can be wiped out if that one company goes out.

Oh, I'm agreeing with you. I just thought that it wasn't the loss of the potato as a food source but as a money source that crippled them.

 

[Music Mole]

FACT:

God didn't create the heavens and the Earth.

Obama did.

Well, duh! that's common knowledge.

..... i dunno if sarcasim is implied in those words but sadly some people forget jokes like this do make people belive the socialist is best for a capitalist country... i'm not trying to change the threat topic but....

*neck to fanblade*

I was making a joke, I'm certain no one actually believes Obama is made the heavens and the earth.

 

[-Orgasmatron-]

Democracy is a form of Capitalism, Communism is a form of Socialism, and Fascism is Socialist with some Capitalistic elements.

Democracy is how goverment is selected, Capitalism is an economic system. You can have Capitalist dictaorships, for example, Dubai. You need to do your homework.

 

[ExodusinFlames]

Christopher Columbus didn't fucking discover North America. He thought he was in the Indies south of Asia. The first people from Europe to discover North America were the Vikings.

What about the Native Americans, I'd think they had a good "bead" on things. Yes, I'm aware that I'd be going to hell for that terrible joke, but I'm Metis, so I can get away with it a little.

You're the third to not read carefully.

When we're looking historically, many generalize and refer to the area as "Eurasia" in terms of Homo Sapien and Neanderthal locations and migrations. And besides, reading carefully is for chumps

 

[Scrythe]

Read this book. It will open your eyes.

Spoiler

 

[Berethond]

Honestly, the biggest lie most people seem to be getting told these days is about the American school system. Around 75% of people posting in this thread start with "I heard that in American schools..."

People need to stop talking about things they don't know anything about.

 

[MagicShroom]

Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.

I know this one is incorrect, Inflation happens automatically when the cost of living goes up, economic growth, changes in supply, and so on, there is too many conditions that causes it and it almost inevitable.