Lies they teach you in HIstory class

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Haydyn

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The reason the Vikings never had a long lasting settlement in North America was because they did not like the condition of the land, not because they didn't have large advancements in technology. Just because you don't have a huge advantage doesn't mean that was the reason for defeat.

"Hey Bob, if you would have had a chainsaw in that knife fight, you would have won." "Ya Bill, I was using a fixed blade and he was using a switch blade. While they are very different they still hold up about the same in a fight. But it doesn't matter because I should have waited until I had a chainsaw." I don't want to start a "Deadliest Warrior" off topic convo, but the Vikings could have easily conquered Native Americans.

Not only was the Civil War not about slavery, but the ideal of abolishing all slavery only came into the picture near the end of the war.
 

lostclause

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Piotr621 said:
Time for a bit of Australian history...
We're told that the British colonisation of Australia was actually an "invasion" but I am of a slightly different opinion. True, the British treatment of the Aboriginies wasn't the best, but consider what would have happened if a different empire would have claimed Australia for it's own? Let's not forget what happened with the Aztecs and Spanish...
Let's be honest and say it couldn't have been any worst. The govener of one state used to go shooting them with the governer of NZ (Geogre Gray), circa late 19th century, that shows that they were treated like animals. Anyway, back to your invasion point, it raises the question as to whether these countries had any right to claim these nations in the first place and I think not.
 

Dys

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PatientGrasshopper said:
I am trying to compile a list of lies or misinformation they teach you in History class. So far this doesn't even apply to current events which would make this list far more interesting. Do you have any you think you want to add or any rebuttals. Also note for those in other countries, this is written from an American perspective.
Lie #1
Communism and Fascism are opposites. The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality. In fact the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker'S Party.
Communist dictator is an oxymoron, if there is a dictator it is not a communist system, socialism is not synonymous with communism. Just because a country says it's communist doesn't make it so, the democratic republic of korea is hardly what we'd call a democracy, likewise the Soviet communist party ...wait, was I ninja'd?


Anarchy In Detroit said:
PatientGrasshopper said:
I am trying to compile a list of lies or misinformation they teach you in History class. So far this doesn't even apply to current events which would make this list far more interesting. Do you have any you think you want to add or any rebuttals. Also note for those in other countries, this is written from an American perspective.
Lie #1
Communism and Fascism are opposites. The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality. In fact the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker'S Party.
Lie #2
Europe was better under Stalin than Hitler. The fact is Stalin was responsible for more deaths in Europe than Hitler was.
Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.
Lie #4
The civil war was fought primarily over slavery. The fact is, although slavery was on issue,the main one was state's rights vs. Federal power. If the main focus was slavery than states like Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri would have joined the South, they had slaves and were Northern states, and additionally the Emancipation Proclamation didn't apply to them.
Firstly, equating socialism to communism, and also to fascism is retarded. If that assertion was true, do you really think Europe would still have socialist governments? The truth is that there never has been a truly by the letter communist state, and even if there was it would suck. The Nazis were socialist in the same way that many African countries are democratic republics... you know, with military dictators. How then do you account for the corporations that did quite well under the Nazis? Socialism? You are correct in saying fascism is not the opposite of communism. It is indeed it's own beast away from the normal political spectrum. It has come and gone under many names and "ideologies" but in the end it always characterized by being an authoritarian military state with one hell of an attitude problem.
Oh, well I guess my input isn't needed here.

lostclause said:
Piotr621 said:
Time for a bit of Australian history...
We're told that the British colonisation of Australia was actually an "invasion" but I am of a slightly different opinion. True, the British treatment of the Aboriginies wasn't the best, but consider what would have happened if a different empire would have claimed Australia for it's own? Let's not forget what happened with the Aztecs and Spanish...
Let's be honest and say it couldn't have been any worst. The govener of one state used to go shooting them with the governer of NZ (Geogre Gray), circa late 19th century, that shows that they were treated like animals. Anyway, back to your invasion point, it raises the question as to whether these countries had any right to claim these nations in the first place and I think not.
The rules are clear, it is free to be claimed if the indiginous people have no flag.
 

lostclause

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Dys said:
The rules are clear, it is free to be claimed if the indiginous people have no flag.
That reminds me of terry pratchett's book nation.
'So what if I sailed to their country and stuck a flag in it?'
'I don't think it works that way.'
'No, probably not.'
 

PatientGrasshopper

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xxcloud417xx said:
BIGGEST LIE THEY TELL YOU UPON ENTERING HISTORY CLASS :

Teacher: "History class is fun!"
That is not true, I find history class quite fun, sometimes you just need an interesting teacher. Also, I find it fun to debate in History class.
obex said:
PatientGrasshopper said:
Lie #1
Communism and Fascism are opposites. The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality. In fact the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker'S Party.
Hate to pull you up mate but they are different except when put into practise communism has lead to dictatorships how ever the ideal of communism is different to fascism so an ideal communist society would be opposite to a fascist one and it would be great but it wont work as it is impractical.

Looks at own avatar.... dont jump to conclusions here.....
I would hate to jump to conclusion but anyone who uses Che Guevara is either and ignorant tool (as I think most the people who were the shirts with his picture have no idea what he truly was) or someone who genuinely believes in violent Communist/Marxist takeovers. So I would ask you, how successful was Che at putting the idea of communism as opposed to the end result into practice?
Dele said:
4fromK said:
PatientGrasshopper said:
I am trying to compile a list of lies or misinformation they teach you in History class. So far this doesn't even apply to current events which would make this list far more interesting. Do you have any you think you want to add or any rebuttals. Also note for those in other countries, this is written from an American perspective.
Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.
the only one i wasnt aware of was number three. makes sense thinking about it now. Im pretty sure I learned the truths in history class, and my history class doesnt touch on economics, so oh well.
Yeah, actually it's deflation that is a natural process of the economy and not inflation.
Interesting, you are the first person to say that on this board. I think deflation is not as bad as inflation.
Highlandheadbanger said:
PatientGrasshopper said:
1. So than you would say it is possible for something to be both communist and Fascist?

2. I am just pointing out that they were both bad guys, as you said though Stalin is just viewed as a hero since he helped us.

3. Gold is more stable because it cannot be artificially created and when more is discovered it is not indefinite.
1. In theory, yes I suppose it could be possible. In his initial rise to power, Hiter actually ran against several other parties vying to take control of then lost cause Germany. This was during the Great Depression and what happened to the States was the lucky break, Europe was especially hard hit, with the currency dropping to less then nothing. No one supported the Nazis initially, the Communist Party seemed the begruding lead canidate (nobody wanted the Communists, but they were the only party that established a sensible plan for rebuilding the German economy. The Nazis ran a vicious anti-Communist campaign which also coincided with a stroke of luck in the form of a slight uptake in the economy, keeping the German people just short of turning to the Communists for help.

2. I'm not saying anything here either, though I find the rationalization of the Allies interesting ("If Hitler invaded Hell, I'd might as well make a pact with the Devil" -Winston Churchill) as well as the almost instantaneous turning of the Allies upon the Soviets following the dismantlement of Hitler's war machine. It makes for interesting politico-social examination.

3. Actually, theres a reason we went off the Gold Standard a long time ago. The supply of gold produced simply could not keep up with the growth of the economy, neither could silver at times. Another serious issue that arose was the balance of power between debtor and debtee. In a Gold Standard economy, those who own the gold have the power (i.e. the very rich). Those without gold are then at the mercy of the gold-controllers, which created a vicious system where banks, loan offices, and "highly-esteemed" citizens of the community had a chokehold upon the small businessman, the wage laborer, and the small-time farmer. Average people were kept in a vice by debt, and the social mobility ladder grew increasingly difficult as the rich got richer and the poor stayed in debt. Situations where rent on houses grew increasingly outrageous, leaving many people at the mercy of the bank or forced to evict, lose their assets, and ruin their credit.
3. The same thing happens in our current society, those with the money have the power. Also, today as the money is controlled by the banks this is especially problematic since people are now at the mercy of the banks. Banks also, if you had a good chunk of money in a bank and wanted to withdraw it all, chances are you wouldn't be able to.
 

CptCamoPants

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PatientGrasshopper said:
I am trying to compile a list of lies or misinformation they teach you in History class. So far this doesn't even apply to current events which would make this list far more interesting. Do you have any you think you want to add or any rebuttals. Also note for those in other countries, this is written from an American perspective.
Lie #1
Communism and Fascism are opposites. The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality. In fact the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker'S Party.
Lie #2
Europe was better under Stalin than Hitler. The fact is Stalin was responsible for more deaths in Europe than Hitler was.
Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.
Lie #4
The civil war was fought primarily over slavery. The fact is, although slavery was on issue,the main one was state's rights vs. Federal power. If the main focus was slavery than states like Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri would have joined the South, they had slaves and were Northern states, and additionally the Emancipation Proclamation didn't apply to them.
Your school must have sucked large amounts of ass.
No one in my school ever taught me any of those...
 

Zersy

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90% of what they teach you is useually altered

and everything between 1905 and 1980 is totally altered !!
 

notsosavagemessiah

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not so much a lie just something that isn't usually mentioned

the firebombing of dresden. conventional weapons killed as many if not more then the nuclear attacks. Why is this nothing more then a side note in most history books ?

As for Communism and Nazis....


In both popular thought and academic scholarship, Nazism is generally considered a form of fascism ? a term whose definition is itself contentious. The debate focuses mainly on comparisons of fascist movements in general with the Italian prototype, including the fascists in Germany. The idea mentioned above to reject all former ideas and ideologies like democracy, liberalism, and especially MARXISM, make it difficult to track down a perfect definition of these two terms; however, Italian Fascists tended to believe that all elements in society should be unified through corporatism to form an ?Organic State?; this meant that these Fascists often had no strong opinion on the question of race, since it was only the state and nation that mattered.

German Nazism, on the other hand, emphasized the Aryan race or ?Volk? principle to the point where the state seemed simply a means through which the Aryan race could realize its ?true destiny?. Since a debate among historians (especially Zeev Sternhell) to see each movement, or at least the German one, as unique, the issue has been for the most part settled, showing that there is a stronger family resemblance between the Italian and the German fascist movement than there is between democracies in Europe or the communist states of the Cold War; additionally, the crimes of the fascist movement can be compared, not only in numbers of casualties, but also in common developments: the March on Rome of Mussolini to Hitler?s response shortly after to attempt a coup d'etat himself in Munich.Also, Aryanism was not an attractive idea for Italians who were seen as a non-Nordic population, but still there was a strong racism and also genocide in concentration camps long before either was in place in Germany. The philosophy that had seemed to be separating both fascisms was shown to be a result of happening in two different countries: since the king of Italy had not died, unlike the Reichspräsident, the leader in Italy (Duce) was not able to gain the absolute power the leader in Germany (Führer) did, leading to Mussolini?s fall. The academic challenge to separate all fascist movements has since the 1980s and early 1990s been ground for a new attempt to see even more similarities.

According to most scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascism as a social movement, and fascism, especially once in power, has historically attacked communism, conservatism and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the "far right" or "extreme right."

The Nazis stated that their goal was to bring forth a nation-state as the locus and embodiment of the people?s collective will, bound by the Volksgemeinschaft, as both an ideal and an operating instrument. In comparison, traditional socialist ideologies oppose the idea of nations.




So there you have it.I find it frightening that some of these ideals are slowly creeping their way into american politics. Or have they always been there? Yes, i used wikipedia. If you don't like it, too bad for you.
 

Nuke_em_05

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Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Something you need to understand, I was pointing out the "weasel phrase" because they didn't actually say that the "Slaughterhouse Cases" actually said it was invalid. This is because the majority opinion doesn't speak to that. Yes, a dissent is not the majority opinion, however, the justice was pointing out that the majority decision did not invalidate it. Look around, read the whole thing. No where in the actual decision does it directly say it is invalid.

If all or none of the constitution was applied to the states is irrelevant. Having the ten commandments in a courthouse is not a law created to establish a religion. "In God we Trust" on currency is not a law created to establish a religion. If it hasn't been applied to the sates, then it is even moreso irrelevant. If it has, no matter how, it still is irrelevant.

Tomas Jefferson's statement calling for a "Separation of Church and State" is also still irrelevant if you cite it as simply calling to apply that part of the constituion to the states.
 

Dele

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PatientGrasshopper said:
Dele said:
Yeah, actually it's deflation that is a natural process of the economy and not inflation.
Interesting, you are the first person to say that on this board. I think deflation is not as bad as inflation.
Yes, in a natural economy you have no minting, which is the only true source of inflation in the long run, thus you have no inflation. Better technology continuously brings increased productivity which makes the prices go down, thus constant deflation, just like it was in the 19th century with gold standard.
 

ThreeWords

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Kilaknux said:
Richard the Third probably wasn't the man who killed the princes in the tower. He was also a fairly good and competant king, as opposed to the monster with zero-percent approval.
I'm not good at telling between kings, but was Richard III the one known as Richard the Lionheart, on account of the crusades?
As far as I know, he was pretty popular...
 

Xan075

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Actually, Communism does not have to be an iron-fisted dictatorship.

One lie I've been told is that socialized health care is a horrible thing. From what I've heard from people from Canada, England, and France, in person and on TV, its legitimately a good thing.
 

Alex_P

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ThreeWords said:
Kilaknux said:
Richard the Third probably wasn't the man who killed the princes in the tower. He was also a fairly good and competant king, as opposed to the monster with zero-percent approval.
I'm not good at telling between kings, but was Richard III the one known as Richard the Lionheart, on account of the crusades?
As far as I know, he was pretty popular...
Nope, Richard III was the last of the Plantagenet dynasty. There's a Shakespeare play about him where he's a scheming hunchback and child-murderer (the child-murderer may still be true, but there's not a lot of hard evidence for it); it famously ends with him dying on the battlefield shouting "A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!"

-- Alex
 

TheMatt

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Broken Wings said:
American students are taught that the war of 1812 never happened. That is bullcrap, their whitehouse got burned down and they don't want to admit it.
haha, That was us (Canada) and our leader was bat-shit crazy... It's well documented.. the man was nuts.
 

lostclause

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notsosavagemessiah said:
the firebombing of dresden. conventional weapons killed as many if not more then the nuclear attacks. Why is this nothing more then a side note in most history books ?
When compared to the bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The real reason that those two have been so contentious is not due to causilties but the debate as to whether or not it was necessary to bomb these cities.
 

lostclause

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Cheeze_Pavilion said:
While the Italian Fascists were not nearly concerned with race as the Nazis, they still had a vision of the state having a concrete ethnic identity with no room for minorities.
Just to add to that, the Greek fascists under Metaxas, who sided with the Allies, were not racist at all.