Lightsabers and Colour

[aba1]

Double posted if a mod could delete this post that be great!

 

[happyninja42]

I loved Luke's green sabre when it first appeared, so vibrant. I don't think the colours ever meant more than the crystal the Jedi chose, and they tend to stick with them.

The canon now apparently, is that the color of the blade, is an effect of the attunement of the crystal. So, assuming the person knows how to tune into the proper frequency bandwith, they could have pretty much any color they want. It used to be based on what crystal you actually find, but that's not the case anymore. Which I kind of like, but then kind of don't.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I loved Luke's green sabre when it first appeared, so vibrant. I don't think the colours ever meant more than the crystal the Jedi chose, and they tend to stick with them.

The canon now apparently, is that the color of the blade, is an effect of the attunement of the crystal. So, assuming the person knows how to tune into the proper frequency bandwith, they could have pretty much any color they want. It used to be based on what crystal you actually find, but that's not the case anymore. Which I kind of like, but then kind of don't.

Actually, according to the EU/Legends and the movies it's always been both. Natural crystals that work for light sabers are supposed to be fairly rare, though any crystal can be attuned for the job with enough work. Crystals that work in lightsabers only naturally occur in places with a very strong environmental force presence. With out access to a natural source some adapt existing crystals. The more common route when people can't access natural force crystals is to artificially create them, it's generally what the Sith have to do, where Luke had to make an artificial force crystal between Empire and RotJ. Rebels has made a move to more or less cement this interpretation.

 

[happyninja42]

I loved Luke's green sabre when it first appeared, so vibrant. I don't think the colours ever meant more than the crystal the Jedi chose, and they tend to stick with them.

The canon now apparently, is that the color of the blade, is an effect of the attunement of the crystal. So, assuming the person knows how to tune into the proper frequency bandwith, they could have pretty much any color they want. It used to be based on what crystal you actually find, but that's not the case anymore. Which I kind of like, but then kind of don't.

Actually, according to the EU/Legends and the movies it's always been both. Natural crystals that work for light sabers are supposed to be fairly rare, though any crystal can be attuned for the job with enough work. Crystals that work in lightsabers only naturally occur in places with a very strong environmental force presence. With out access to a natural source some adapt existing crystals. The more common route when people can't access natural force crystals is to artificially create them, it's generally what the Sith have to do, where Luke had to make an artificial force crystal between Empire and RotJ. Rebels has made a move to more or less cement this interpretation.

Well EU/Legends is no longer canon, hence why I said "the canon now". And everything you said about how crystals develop their traits, while accurate based on EU/Legends, doesn't have anything to do with color. They are all part of the kyber crystal "family" of crystals, and they are slightly altered based on environmental effects. This is absolutely true. However, apparently now, the color, is totally based on how someone tunes them when constructing a saber.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Well EU/Legends is no longer canon, hence why I said "the canon now". And everything you said about how crystals develop their traits, while accurate based on EU/Legends, doesn't have anything to do with color. They are all part of the kyber crystal "family" of crystals, and they are slightly altered based on environmental effects. This is absolutely true. However, apparently now, the color, is totally based on how someone tunes them when constructing a saber.

Well after a check on the Wookiepedia, what seems to have happened is that they co-opted both versions of the story into one. Honestly after looking at some canon, Lucas Film seems to be making a mess of the Canon, based on rolling what they can out of the EU.

 

[happyninja42]

Well EU/Legends is no longer canon, hence why I said "the canon now". And everything you said about how crystals develop their traits, while accurate based on EU/Legends, doesn't have anything to do with color. They are all part of the kyber crystal "family" of crystals, and they are slightly altered based on environmental effects. This is absolutely true. However, apparently now, the color, is totally based on how someone tunes them when constructing a saber.

Well after a check on the Wookiepedia, what seems to have happened is that they co-opted both versions of the story into one. Honestly after looking at some canon, Lucas Film seems to be making a mess of the Canon, based on rolling what they can out of the EU.

I'm pulling my data from starwars.com, which is as I understand it, the site resource for what is actually considered canon at this time. Under the entry about Kyber Crystals, it specifies they are colorless until first tuned, and then hold that color forever.

As to the messiness of canon based on various sources, I agree, it's difficult to sift out what is still held canon from the EU, and what isn't. Well, I mean I guess you could just stick to what's listed on the canon site, but there are decades worth of information burned into our brains from the EU, and having to go and source check all that can be a bit tiresome. I understand why Disney did it to the EU, because frankly there is just so much chaff out there, some of conflicting nature in the EU, that to try and make it make sense going forward, you basically have to gut a lot of junk, and it's easier to just start with the basics and go from there.

Which is kind of why I'm on the fence about this canon aspect of the crystal colors. From a roleplaying standpoint, I like it, because it allows my Force using players to easily decide whatever color crystal they want, and I don't have to "oh look! You just happen to find a blue crystal! Just like the color you wanted! What luck!" kind of handwaving as a GM. On the other hand, I do like the idea of having the cave of colored crystals, casting various shadows as they travel deep into them, to find the right crystal for their sabers. One hand, it makes running it a bit easier, on the other hand, it lessens some of the dramatic flavor in my opinion.

 

[Lupine]

People already brought up grey Jedi? That's what's known as having your cake and eating it. Suck it up and pick a side.

Personally I'd like a deep, dark green lightsaber, with a long hilt and a slightly extended blade, like a hand-and-a-half sword. I'd have to be a Jedi, being a Dudeist and all it fits that I follow another set of beliefs awkwardly cobbled together out of Taoism.

But both are totally stupid! Strip out most of what makes you human or become a slave to petty emotion, neither sound great to me. Part of the reason I think Jolee, Revan, Luke and Kreia are the most interesting force users in all the canon.

Anyway, loved the Silver/White Sabers in Kotor 2 the mostest.

Thank you. The Sith claim that their path is the path of freedom and yet the Sith are ruled by pettiness and the Jedi are afraid of human emotion and almost literally everything is a path to the darkside. So I for one choose the path of freedom, of deciding to live, but to live with my emotions rather than fearing them and at the drop of a hat when they're too much for me, I decide it is okay to start tossing around genocides. It seems less like the Sith were corrupted and more like they just lose their shit because they've never really come to terms with the disappointments and hardships of life and instead they've been bottling everything up and then go postal for not dealing with emotion like a logical and health person does.

So yeah, call it BS, but I'm saying that both groups are kinda crazy. And Grey seems less like a dismissal of discipline and duty, and more a acceptance of the flaws of sentient beings and a desire to not follow divorcing yourself from life or being a raving madman. Life lives in the middle and if The Force is the connection of all living things then it makes no sense for it to be a polarizing force dependent on two equally restrictive lifestyles (yes Virgina, the Sith are restrictive).

Question at hand. I agree about the silver, they've always been my favorite saber. As for make, I think I'd like a hand and a half size sword that I'd wield two handed mostly in Soresu. Absolute defense and introspection. Seems the way to go to me.

 

[Something Amyss]

As to the messiness of canon based on various sources, I agree, it's difficult to sift out what is still held canon from the EU, and what isn't. Well, I mean I guess you could just stick to what's listed on the canon site, but there are decades worth of information burned into our brains from the EU, and having to go and source check all that can be a bit tiresome.

The simplest solution is to accept that that information probably isn't canon and move on. There seems to be little point in even discussing how things affect canon if you find it tiresome to see whether they do so.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Well EU/Legends is no longer canon, hence why I said "the canon now". And everything you said about how crystals develop their traits, while accurate based on EU/Legends, doesn't have anything to do with color. They are all part of the kyber crystal "family" of crystals, and they are slightly altered based on environmental effects. This is absolutely true. However, apparently now, the color, is totally based on how someone tunes them when constructing a saber.

Well after a check on the Wookiepedia, what seems to have happened is that they co-opted both versions of the story into one. Honestly after looking at some canon, Lucas Film seems to be making a mess of the Canon, based on rolling what they can out of the EU.

I'm pulling my data from starwars.com, which is as I understand it, the site resource for what is actually considered canon at this time. Under the entry about Kyber Crystals, it specifies they are colorless until first tuned, and then hold that color forever.

As to the messiness of canon based on various sources, I agree, it's difficult to sift out what is still held canon from the EU, and what isn't. Well, I mean I guess you could just stick to what's listed on the canon site, but there are decades worth of information burned into our brains from the EU, and having to go and source check all that can be a bit tiresome. I understand why Disney did it to the EU, because frankly there is just so much chaff out there, some of conflicting nature in the EU, that to try and make it make sense going forward, you basically have to gut a lot of junk, and it's easier to just start with the basics and go from there.

Which is kind of why I'm on the fence about this canon aspect of the crystal colors. From a roleplaying standpoint, I like it, because it allows my Force using players to easily decide whatever color crystal they want, and I don't have to "oh look! You just happen to find a blue crystal! Just like the color you wanted! What luck!" kind of handwaving as a GM. On the other hand, I do like the idea of having the cave of colored crystals, casting various shadows as they travel deep into them, to find the right crystal for their sabers. One hand, it makes running it a bit easier, on the other hand, it lessens some of the dramatic flavor in my opinion.

Wookiepedia's canon sources tends to be more complete than starwars.com, their canon stuff also won't contradict what's on the official site, so that's at least a working solution.

From what I can tell though, a lot of what concepts they're pulling out of the EU is at the very least poorly researched, although some of it might also be misunderstandings and bad writing... I mean by this, the concepts that official sources to make official canon that originate in the EU. I'm rather irritated that the current stance is that cortosis woven blades and vibro-blades are still in the "legendary" category. They really need to officially canonize KotOR, because it clarifies a lot of background stuff, without conflicting with current show and movie canon.

 

[happyninja42]

As to the messiness of canon based on various sources, I agree, it's difficult to sift out what is still held canon from the EU, and what isn't. Well, I mean I guess you could just stick to what's listed on the canon site, but there are decades worth of information burned into our brains from the EU, and having to go and source check all that can be a bit tiresome.

The simplest solution is to accept that that information probably isn't canon and move on. There seems to be little point in even discussing how things affect canon if you find it tiresome to see whether they do so.

That's pretty much what I do. I was simply commenting on how much of what is understood to be accurate information, is based on decades of material that is now suspect. Some has been kept, some hasn't. And for people who are concerned with making sure everything is 100% canon (which I am not one of them), it would be a tiresome endeavor, or at the very least tedious. I don't care if something's canon or not when it comes to my game, and I'll go with whatever works best for my campaign. My comment about how I felt on the new way that color is decided was simply that. A comment. As an aspect of the Star Wars lore, I find parts of it interesting, but other parts a little "meh". It makes it a lot easier to justify various blade colors, without having to retcon just what types of colors the crystals can show up as. But then one of my favorite images from the clone wars cartoon mini series (the one made by the creator of Samurai Jack), was the scene of that one Jedi constructing her saber in the crystal chamber, with all the glowing crystals of various colors around her. So now, I'm seeing it in my head as just chambers of white colored crystals, and it just feels a little less mythic and neat to me.

From what I can tell though, a lot of what concepts they're pulling out of the EU is at the very least poorly researched, although some of it might also be misunderstandings and bad writing... I mean by this, the concepts that official sources to make official canon that originate in the EU. I'm rather irritated that the current stance is that cortosis woven blades and vibro-blades are still in the "legendary" category. They really need to officially canonize KotOR, because it clarifies a lot of background stuff, without conflicting with current show and movie canon.

I dunno, they make mention of cortosis in the Clone Wars cartoon series, which is canon. Maybe not blades of the stuff? But they specifically talked about that one creature whose hide was saber resistant.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

From what I can tell though, a lot of what concepts they're pulling out of the EU is at the very least poorly researched, although some of it might also be misunderstandings and bad writing... I mean by this, the concepts that official sources to make official canon that originate in the EU. I'm rather irritated that the current stance is that cortosis woven blades and vibro-blades are still in the "legendary" category. They really need to officially canonize KotOR, because it clarifies a lot of background stuff, without conflicting with current show and movie canon.

I dunno, they make mention of cortosis in the Clone Wars cartoon series, which is canon. Maybe not blades of the stuff? But they specifically talked about that one creature whose hide was saber resistant.

Cortosis in canon has no current mention of weather or not it's light saber resistant, it is conductive against blaster bolts officially in the canon though. Several animals have hides known to be both blaster and lightsaber resistant, Kryat Dragons and Rancors are said to be amongst them, along with the Hutts strangely enough, who have energy conducting enzymes in their skin oils apparently. Still cortosis-weave in armor and blades was supposed to be one of the few known defenses against a lightsaber. Without that those wielding lightsabers go back to being nigh unstoppable forces to anyone and anything without a lightsaber or electrostaff.

 

[happyninja42]

From what I can tell though, a lot of what concepts they're pulling out of the EU is at the very least poorly researched, although some of it might also be misunderstandings and bad writing... I mean by this, the concepts that official sources to make official canon that originate in the EU. I'm rather irritated that the current stance is that cortosis woven blades and vibro-blades are still in the "legendary" category. They really need to officially canonize KotOR, because it clarifies a lot of background stuff, without conflicting with current show and movie canon.

I dunno, they make mention of cortosis in the Clone Wars cartoon series, which is canon. Maybe not blades of the stuff? But they specifically talked about that one creature whose hide was saber resistant.

Cortosis in canon has no current mention of weather or not it's light saber resistant, it is conductive against blaster bolts officially in the canon though. Several animals have hides known to be both blaster and lightsaber resistant, Kryat Dragons and Rancors are said to be amongst them, along with the Hutts strangely enough, who have energy conducting enzymes in their skin oils apparently. Still cortosis-weave in armor and blades was supposed to be one of the few known defenses against a lightsaber. Without that those wielding lightsabers go back to being nigh unstoppable forces to anyone and anything without a lightsaber or electrostaff.

Did they ever actually name that big damn animal they killed in the Clone Wars? It was the last of it's kind, but there was heavy implication that the Emperor was going to clone it for a source of saber resistant material. Was that a krayt dragon? I don't recall them actually naming it in that episode.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Did they ever actually name that big damn animal they killed in the Clone Wars? It was the last of it's kind, but there was heavy implication that the Emperor was going to clone it for a source of saber resistant material. Was that a krayt dragon? I don't recall them actually naming it in that episode.

Everything eventually gets an official name, there's plenty of referential material that's first party canon stuff. Knowing what planet they were on would be helpful, as would an image of the beastie. It's also probably not a Krayt Dragon, as they're native to Tatooine, though it's unclear if Krayt Dragons have ever been exported off the planet.

Edit: I think the creature you're talking about here is the Zillo Beast native to Malastare. [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zillo_Beast]

 

[immortalfrieza]

Black bladed lightsaber in one hand, silver/white blade in the other. This would represent the philosophy I would follow as a Force User, to make use of Light or Dark as the situation permits to follow whatever goals I have at the time to the best of my judgement, and to not allow either one to influence or impair that judgement. I don't honestly care whether Grey Jedi are canon or not anymore, that is what I would be and if they currently aren't that's what I would strive to make possible in the Star Wars universe. I simply would be someone who feels and yet actually THINKS about what they are doing instead of just blindly following dogma like an actual person. If neither the Jedi nor the Sith liked it, then I'd just form a new Force Order to surpass either and they can just continue fighting their pointless wars and kill each other off as they eventually do.

In the end, Star Wars and The Force in particular can and should be more nuanced than "either you're an emotionally dead monk or you're a evil insane stupid moron" as the movies and most of the rest of the current canon permits. This necessitates something like the Grey Jedi, Force Orders which are more focused on balancing rather than following one extreme or the other, even if they ultimately lean one way or the other.

 

[Souplex]

I was under the impression that the colors meant something.
Correct me if I'm wrong but:
Blue: Regular Jedi
Green: Jedi Master
Purple: Head Jedi
Red: Sith

Then Yoda's lightsaber would have been purple, not green. Green and Blue are supposed to be the typical colors because the Jedi get their light saber crystals in one place, where only blue and green crystals are present.

I was under the impression that Mace had a special rank, like he was the head of all Jedi military operations or something, or he did outrank Yoda, but simply consulted with him a lot due to Yoda being a generally wise dude.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I was under the impression that the colors meant something.
Correct me if I'm wrong but:
Blue: Regular Jedi
Green: Jedi Master
Purple: Head Jedi
Red: Sith

Then Yoda's lightsaber would have been purple, not green. Green and Blue are supposed to be the typical colors because the Jedi get their light saber crystals in one place, where only blue and green crystals are present.

I was under the impression that Mace had a special rank, like he was the head of all Jedi military operations or something, or he did outrank Yoda, but simply consulted with him a lot due to Yoda being a generally wise dude.

Nope, the literal reason Mace had a purple bladed saber is because Samuel L. Jackson wanted special and have a different color lightsaber than normal. Yoda was still the head of the Jedi Council and the senior Master of the Order, though Mace was also a Master of the Order, he was still junior to Yoda in that position.

 

[Souplex]

I was under the impression that the colors meant something.
Correct me if I'm wrong but:
Blue: Regular Jedi
Green: Jedi Master
Purple: Head Jedi
Red: Sith

Then Yoda's lightsaber would have been purple, not green. Green and Blue are supposed to be the typical colors because the Jedi get their light saber crystals in one place, where only blue and green crystals are present.

I was under the impression that Mace had a special rank, like he was the head of all Jedi military operations or something, or he did outrank Yoda, but simply consulted with him a lot due to Yoda being a generally wise dude.

Nope, the literal reason Mace had a purple bladed saber is because Samuel L. Jackson wanted special and have a different color lightsaber than normal. Yoda was still the head of the Jedi Council and the senior Master of the Order, though Mace was also a Master of the Order, he was still junior to Yoda in that position.

I knew about the behind the scenes thing, but I thought they wrote a reason for it into the story as a result of the production chicanery.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I was under the impression that the colors meant something.
Correct me if I'm wrong but:
Blue: Regular Jedi
Green: Jedi Master
Purple: Head Jedi
Red: Sith

Then Yoda's lightsaber would have been purple, not green. Green and Blue are supposed to be the typical colors because the Jedi get their light saber crystals in one place, where only blue and green crystals are present.

I was under the impression that Mace had a special rank, like he was the head of all Jedi military operations or something, or he did outrank Yoda, but simply consulted with him a lot due to Yoda being a generally wise dude.

Nope, the literal reason Mace had a purple bladed saber is because Samuel L. Jackson wanted special and have a different color lightsaber than normal. Yoda was still the head of the Jedi Council and the senior Master of the Order, though Mace was also a Master of the Order, he was still junior to Yoda in that position.

I knew about the behind the scenes thing, but I thought they wrote a reason for it into the story as a result of the production chicanery.

The official cinematic and canon reason for it currently stands at some how Mace Windu made his Kyber Crystal turn purple/violet during it's refinement process while he built his light saber.

 

[EscapeGoat_v1legacy]

I used to be all about green lightsabers because seeing Luke's lightsaber for the first time in Return of the Jedi was the coolest thing! These days though I have to admit I've switched to the tried and true classic blue saber, something about it just looks right.

Never liked yellow or orange lightsabers though. Dunno why but they just look all wrong.