Definately the Mass Effect universe.
Space adventures galore. And if the Asari go for Krogan they'll go for anyone, right?
Space adventures galore. And if the Asari go for Krogan they'll go for anyone, right?
Well, no of course they couldn't know - but neither did the Europeans know that germs were killing natives as they hadn't developed solid germ-theory yet even for themselves.bug_of_war said:I dunno, how was anyone, ANYONE suppose to know that Humans cause Elves to loose their immortality, and at the same time how are they suppose to stop an infectious mortality? I mean, in the grand scheme of things I'd say mortality isn't such a bad thing. It gives reason to not be an idiot, breeding becomes more needed than EVER, and imagine having people in the 12th century still alive today...yeah forward thinking requires newer brains. So yeah, I have always been interested in finding out whether or not the Elves may have done something first to cause the Humans to be dicks. I'm kind of sick of Humans always being the dickbags in, well most genres to be honest, but especilly in RPGs. That's why I liked Mass Effect because while Humans were shown as over eager a majority of our society (bar Cerberus) was able to intergrate into the whole council races citadel comission buddies panel (and it only took them 30 or so years(which was spent fighting the Turians but both sides have moments where they were being the dick)). So yeah, personally I also wouldn't wanna live in the DA universe (I just find it boring with only one sort of unique race(Kossith(Qunari))), and while I accept that it is VERY debatable to which game universe contains more prejudice I (and I think most people agree with me here) like the idea of 10 unique intelligent races living together and how they interact.Mylinkay Asdara said:Yeah... overall I think the loss of immortality thing was a little bit like the smallpox and other diseases that killed off natives in the New World when it got discovered - unintentional, but devastating and no one took appropriate steps to try to limit the damages - which makes it almost seem intentional, but it isn't actually. Something close to that.
As for Elves loosing their mortality, I always saw their anger (in both DA and TES) as more a hissy fit, like when a child gets their favourite toy taken away (I know extended lifespan is more than just a toy, but that's my analogy). I really think the Elves in DA dealt with it better than the Elves in TES though, as they don't exactly go to war against Human kind for something that literally was their fault, whilst in TES it is speculated that the gods are the reason for the Elves' mortality, and the Altmer are pissed as all hell (but the Dunmer see it as a test of character so I guess there is at least a section of 'pure' Elves that have a similar reaction to the Elves in DA). I really think that the Elves being pissed of for something that happened thousands of years ago and to a generation so far back to be a little fickle. I understand their anger for the slavery, that's totally valid but the whole, "Damn it, my species use to be immortal 1000s of years ago" always seemed like something not worth being angry at. It's like if we were constantly angry at the fact that we use to be able to climb trees really well, or were stronger, or use to be able to use our appendix, it's so long ago that it doesn't matter. You would think that (in both universes) a creature that is born knowing that they are not the first, but actually one of billions to be mortal would not care, but (again, in both universes) it seems as though they get indoctrinated into believing that it is something they HAVE to have back.Mylinkay Asdara said:Well, no of course they couldn't know - but neither did the Europeans know that germs were killing natives as they hadn't developed solid germ-theory yet even for themselves.
The mortality of the Elves being spun on a positive is... a stretch for me. They were walking around with new people and those from the ancient days all together - the extreme elderly would sleep when they were tired of life or needed to make room for new growth and their wisdom would be preserved with them but they would move out of the way. Also - their society would have been much different for their longevity than a mortal society would function in terms of holding office, governing, titles etc. I'm sure.
I am curious if the humans were provoked or not - but it doesn't seem as though they were from what we know now - more that they were an expanding population and did what expanding populations with sufficient military (or magical) strength do and encroached on the territory of others to continue expanding and progressing. My suspicion is that the Tevinters wanted some magic the Elves had and refused to share that we haven't heard about, but that's pure speculation.
Well, but, y'see, the Elves in DA believe (rightly or wrongly, we're not entirely sure) that they can regain their immortality by living apart from humans again, so it isn't quite as "gone forever" as the gods granted grace of TES. The Dalish assistant keeper will say that Dalish live much longer than their city elf counterparts by remaining isolated from as much human contact as possible - Zathrian aside of course who had that whole curse-link thing happening. So rather than an act of 1,000 years ago, it's an ongoing suppression of immortality they still possess by making them live co-mingled with humans so they don't "revert" to worship of their own gods - and thus stunt the goals of the Chant of Light coming from all corners, yadda yadda, see previous discussion of Chantry goals and intentions.bug_of_war said:As for Elves loosing their mortality, I always saw their anger (in both DA and TES) as more a hissy fit, like when a child gets their favourite toy taken away (I know extended lifespan is more than just a toy, but that's my analogy). I really think the Elves in DA dealt with it better than the Elves in TES though, as they don't exactly go to war against Human kind for something that literally was their fault, whilst in TES it is speculated that the gods are the reason for the Elves' mortality, and the Altmer are pissed as all hell (but the Dunmer see it as a test of character so I guess there is at least a section of 'pure' Elves that have a similar reaction to the Elves in DA). I really think that the Elves being pissed of for something that happened thousands of years ago and to a generation so far back to be a little fickle. I understand their anger for the slavery, that's totally valid but the whole, "Damn it, my species use to be immortal 1000s of years ago" always seemed like something not worth being angry at. It's like if we were constantly angry at the fact that we use to be able to climb trees really well, or were stronger, or use to be able to use our appendix, it's so long ago that it doesn't matter. You would think that (in both universes) a creature that is born knowing that they are not the first, but actually one of billions to be mortal would not care, but (again, in both universes) it seems as though they get indoctrinated into believing that it is something they HAVE to have back.Mylinkay Asdara said:Well, no of course they couldn't know - but neither did the Europeans know that germs were killing natives as they hadn't developed solid germ-theory yet even for themselves.
The mortality of the Elves being spun on a positive is... a stretch for me. They were walking around with new people and those from the ancient days all together - the extreme elderly would sleep when they were tired of life or needed to make room for new growth and their wisdom would be preserved with them but they would move out of the way. Also - their society would have been much different for their longevity than a mortal society would function in terms of holding office, governing, titles etc. I'm sure.
I am curious if the humans were provoked or not - but it doesn't seem as though they were from what we know now - more that they were an expanding population and did what expanding populations with sufficient military (or magical) strength do and encroached on the territory of others to continue expanding and progressing. My suspicion is that the Tevinters wanted some magic the Elves had and refused to share that we haven't heard about, but that's pure speculation.
I really just don't like how either universe has dealt with how the Elves and Humans came into conflict as I feel as though we're never getting the full story. In TES the most information we get is that Elves got scared that the Humans breed fast and "divide and conquer" the land, and in DA we get told that Humans and Chantry are assholes. So basically, I would prefer to get the Elves side of the story in TES, and the Humans side of the story in DA.
I didn't think the Elves in the cities were put there because of the Chantry wanting them to keep them mortal, more more because the Humans in general just wanted them there for the sake of free labour. I missed the section in talking to the Dalish because my ever lasting love of the badassery that is Werewolves made me choose them over the Dalish (Kind of hilarious seeing as how my character was a Dale), so I never got the info saying that the Dales live longer. Theoretically it could be because of the stress and work load that the city Elves go through as compared to the Dales that really don't do much other than hunt, patrol, eat, fuck, and sit around a campfire, so it could be argued that the life of the Dales is easier and thus allows them to live longer because they're not forced to be rape dolls/free labour/breath and eat shit. In TES series the Elves still have extended lifespans compared to the Humans and yet they, unlike the Elves in DA flat out say that they're the best race ever. Unlike the DA Elves whom use to be immortal and may possibly regain their immortality, the Elves in TES have no chance of getting back their immortality (which was not stolen from the by another mortal race) and yet claim that they are the most advanced and best race in TES universe. So at least in DA the Elves while not wanting to live with the Humans, they do not stand up and say, "We're better than the Dwarves, Humans, and Kossith". The Elves in DA seem more humble than the Elves in TES, in fact ALL species in DA (except for the Qunari) seem to have more humility than ANY species in TES.Mylinkay Asdara said:Well, but, y'see, the Elves in DA believe (rightly or wrongly, we're not entirely sure) that they can regain their immortality by living apart from humans again, so it isn't quite as "gone forever" as the gods granted grace of TES. The Dalish assistant keeper will say that Dalish live much longer than their city elf counterparts by remaining isolated from as much human contact as possible - Zathrian aside of course who had that whole curse-link thing happening. So rather than an act of 1,000 years ago, it's an ongoing suppression of immortality they still possess by making them live co-mingled with humans so they don't "revert" to worship of their own gods - and thus stunt the goals of the Chant of Light coming from all corners, yadda yadda, see previous discussion of Chantry goals and intentions.
Well, let me clarify: the City Elves aren't kept in the cities, as such - for suppression of their Immortality or any other specified reason. However, they are expected to live amongst, and not apart from, humans and to embrace the Chanty's teachings the same as everyone else. It was living apart, in the Dales and trying to reconnect with their own culture and gods that brought the wrath of the Chantry down upon them with the Exalted March of the Dales and since then they have not been granted any lands to call their own or permitted to create any all-Elf settlements. The Dalish defy this and so they are harassed and have no real protection under the law from that harassment. Free / cheap labor (depending on the state of servitude or slavery) is the economic reason to keep the Elves in cities and oppress them with second class citizenship and curtailed rights. They have no representation in any government and aren't allowed to institute their own either.bug_of_war said:I didn't think the Elves in the cities were put there because of the Chantry wanting them to keep them mortal, more more because the Humans in general just wanted them there for the sake of free labour. I missed the section in talking to the Dalish because my ever lasting love of the badassery that is Werewolves made me choose them over the Dalish (Kind of hilarious seeing as how my character was a Dale), so I never got the info saying that the Dales live longer. Theoretically it could be because of the stress and work load that the city Elves go through as compared to the Dales that really don't do much other than hunt, patrol, eat, fuck, and sit around a campfire, so it could be argued that the life of the Dales is easier and thus allows them to live longer because they're not forced to be rape dolls/free labour/breath and eat shit. In TES series the Elves still have extended lifespans compared to the Humans and yet they, unlike the Elves in DA flat out say that they're the best race ever. Unlike the DA Elves whom use to be immortal and may possibly regain their immortality, the Elves in TES have no chance of getting back their immortality (which was not stolen from the by another mortal race) and yet claim that they are the most advanced and best race in TES universe. So at least in DA the Elves while not wanting to live with the Humans, they do not stand up and say, "We're better than the Dwarves, Humans, and Kossith". The Elves in DA seem more humble than the Elves in TES, in fact ALL species in DA (except for the Qunari) seem to have more humility than ANY species in TES.Mylinkay Asdara said:Well, but, y'see, the Elves in DA believe (rightly or wrongly, we're not entirely sure) that they can regain their immortality by living apart from humans again, so it isn't quite as "gone forever" as the gods granted grace of TES. The Dalish assistant keeper will say that Dalish live much longer than their city elf counterparts by remaining isolated from as much human contact as possible - Zathrian aside of course who had that whole curse-link thing happening. So rather than an act of 1,000 years ago, it's an ongoing suppression of immortality they still possess by making them live co-mingled with humans so they don't "revert" to worship of their own gods - and thus stunt the goals of the Chant of Light coming from all corners, yadda yadda, see previous discussion of Chantry goals and intentions.
That would be great, assuming you were one of the lucky(?) few who had the dark sign, otherwise....lRookiel said:Dark souls, because I love a good challenge! :3