London Riots

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BGH122

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Over the past two days there have been a series of riots in northern London, starting in Tottenham and migrating down to Enfield once the police established control of the previous riot location. In Tottenham, two police cars, a bus and several buildings were set ablaze by rioters who looted numerous shops across the high street:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/tottenham-smoulders-after-night-of-rioting-2333588.html said:
outlets of Argos, Currys, Comet and JD Sports were ransacked. By morning, looting had spread to the separate neighbourhood of Wood Green, which is some two miles away.

[...]

Fiona Edwards, a 19-year-old student who had been working in Argos during her summer holidays, said: "They took jewellery, laptops, TVs, the tills; everything's gone. I don't have a job any more."

Rioters attacked firemen who attempted to put out the blaze and attacked members of the public who assisted, or even spoke to, the rescue services.


By the end of the night's riot, the total toll for the police was 26 injured officers [http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-eight-police-injured] (some of whom required hospitalisation) and over 40 arrests. The civilian casualties haven't yet been ascertained, nor has the property damage or theft, though looting and mayhem were reportedly widespread.

The initial cause of the Tottenham riots, beyond a general lack of self-control and desire for violence from some members of the community, was the police shooting of "Starrish Mark" Duggan [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/a-death-at-the-hands-of-police-ndash-and-a-vigil-that-turned-to-violence-2333590.html], reputedly a local gangster, who is said to have been killed by a single shot to the head two days prior to the riots after having fired upon the police as they came towards him to effect an arrest. Unusually, the Independent Police Complaints Commission arrived at the scene immediately after the shooting to investigate the circumstances that lead to Duggan's death. Certain community members believed that Duggan had been deliberately executed by the police and gathered outside a local police station to demand answers (despite the fact that the IPCC were already investigating). The initially peaceful demonstration quickly turned to violence as youths set police cars alight and ransacked the station. It's rumoured that an altercation between police and a teenager at the protest may have been the catalyst for the events to come, but no confirming evidence has come to light.

Then today, Enfield was struck by an orchestrated riot, organised through social networking sites [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8687680/Capital-sees-second-night-of-clashes.html]. This time, the Territorial Support Group and the Dog Support Unit were much quicker on the scene, but looting still occurred [http://www.enfieldindependent.co.uk/news/9182622.Clashes_resume_in_Enfield_Town_as_police_attacked/].


Rioters were last seen heading towards the retail park [http://www.enfieldindependent.co.uk/news/localnews/9182655.Riots_appear_under_control_as_battleground_moves_to_retail_park/] with police helicopters tailing closely, although no official confirmation has been received as to the change of the location of the riot.

For those old enough to remember it, these riots hark of the 1985 Tottenham race riots which claimed the life of police constable Keith Blakelock who was brutally hacked to death during the riot. Thankfully, no reports of deaths have surfaced yet.

As per normal, the Guardian is already on the scene blaming the police whilst its doppelgänger, the Daily Mail, blames the community. I did a cursory check of the search bar to see if this was being discussed and it didn't appear to be.

So what are your thoughts? How should riots be contained? Is this a different image of London to the one you'd previously held? Discuss!

EDIT:

So, now it's Monday and the rioting is spreading. This Google map [http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ll=51.523271,-0.068665&spn=0.459699,1.100006] shows the areas currently being affected by the riots.

The riots have now spread to Clapham, Croydon, Brixton, Oxford Circus, Walthamstow, Islington, Hackney, Peckham, Tooting, Streatham, Camden, Notting Hill and Ealing Broadway. Worst effected are Croydon, in which a 5 generation old business was torched, and Clapham, where the high street stores were entirely ransacked.

Clapham


Croydon


If you're in London tonight then stay in doors, lock everything, ensure you've got access to water and some form of protection.

Stay safe out there, law abiding citizens.
 

SilentCom

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What is up with the Brits and their riots anyways? I understand if people are upset and want to protest, but taking it a step further and rioting is just plain stupid.

Also, I don't mean to be bashing on every British person out there, it's just that it seems like whenever I hear some kind of news from England, it's some kind of riot.
 

BrailleOperatic

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There's no really 'good' way to contain a riot. They're fundamentally unpredictable, fueled by the more ignoble portions of the brain. One person freaks out, sets off another, who sets off another, until suddenly everyone is up in arms.
I've seen Scotland Yard have varying levels of success preventing them by reducing police presence, as well as preventing sale of make shift weaponry (specifically, they had required pubs serve drinks in plastic cups instead of bottles after the World Cup, and assorted other high profile football matches).
But this seems to be a totally different kettle of fish. I wouldn't say it was inevitable, but I don't think there was anything they could have to prevent it. People get upset, and tempers flare, and a peaceful protest becomes a mob.It sucks, but as I said before, there's no good way to stop it.
 

Berethond

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WOOOOOOOOOOOO YEAH RIOTS!
Just seeing the pictures makes me pumped up.

Though the looting was a little too far.
 

BrailleOperatic

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SilentCom said:
What is up with the Brits and their riots anyways? I understand if people are upset and want to protest, but taking it a step further and rioting is just plain stupid.

Also, I don't mean to be bashing on every British person out there, it's just that it seems like whenever I hear some kind of news from England, it's some kind of riot.
Do you often hear news from the UK? America news companies aren't exactly well known for their global outlook. The reason you only seem to hear about riots s because that's what takes for America to care about what's going on across the pond.
 

Gladiateher

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Good gravy, riots are so stupid. Another great example of weak willed people losing control of themselves.
 

Gaiseric

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BrailleOperatic said:
SilentCom said:
What is up with the Brits and their riots anyways? I understand if people are upset and want to protest, but taking it a step further and rioting is just plain stupid.

Also, I don't mean to be bashing on every British person out there, it's just that it seems like whenever I hear some kind of news from England, it's some kind of riot.
Do you often hear news from the UK? America news companies aren't exactly well known for their global outlook. The reason you only seem to hear about riots s because that's what takes for America to care about what's going on across the pond.
He may get his news from other sources other than just American companies. Like how I sometimes watch the BBC or check other non US websites.
 

Dogstile

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Mad Stalin said:
Well, brits are bad at rioting, but contain with teargas and beanbag shotguns? Or you know, bigger cars
Aha, i've seen a beanbag shotgun used before. (also, in the UK, and no, it wasn't police issue).

It hit the bloke, who promptly looked at the guy who shot him, glared and charged. I doubt you could stop most of my countrymen that easily. It just pisses us off.
 

AngryMongoose

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And, see, now, this is going to be used as an excuse to crush any kind for protest that comes up for the next decade. And whenever that happens riots occur. Fuckit, I'm moving to Finland.

SilentCom said:
Also, I don't mean to be bashing on every British person out there, it's just that it seems like whenever I hear some kind of news from England, it's some kind of riot.
Generally because the US media reports any large scale protest we have as a riot.

This one, admittedly, is legitimately a riot.
 

BGH122

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Mad Stalin said:
Well, brits are bad at rioting, but contain with teargas and beanbag shotguns? Or you know, bigger cars
We're not allowed to use any of those things. We're not even allowed baton-rounds or water cannons. We're having kettling (containment, as other police forces in other countries call it) removed from us too. We're also not allowed to directly strike with batons to anywhere but main muscle mass (arms, legs, thigh).

I mainly wanted to hear peoples' containment strategies because I wanted to tick of the list of things we're not allowed to do against the list of suggestions. I'm not commenting on whether it's good or bad that we're not allowed to do those things, just gauging what the Escapists would do if they were allowed and how those beliefs tally up with those of government.

dogstile said:
Mad Stalin said:
Well, brits are bad at rioting, but contain with teargas and beanbag shotguns? Or you know, bigger cars
Aha, i've seen a beanbag shotgun used before. (also, in the UK, and no, it wasn't police issue).

It hit the bloke, who promptly looked at the guy who shot him, glared and charged. I doubt you could stop most of my countrymen that easily. It just pisses us off.
Was it an actual police officer firing the gun, or some kind of personal defence thing?

The_AC said:
Just keep telling yourselves that diversity is a strength.
And with only two strikes left. You just don't give one solitary fuck about moderators, do you?
 

Grandpappyduplenty

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Just want to say, from england, that we riot because as a small country the lies we're told are far more magnified than in larger nations, with separate laws regarding moral issues depending on what state you're in (although, other than the corruption it occasionally brings about, i do have a lot of admiration for the US democratic system, and your policies on guns). And we have a disgusting, greedy government who snuck their way in with far too few votes and far too many bribes. If a riot comes about here, there's always good reason. our rights are being regularly put into question, and the police seem to be getting more and more brutal daily.

I apologise if this seems barbaric, but we've done nothing about everything bad for too long, and i think, although violence is very difficult to justify, I fully understand the riots in tottenham. I would never myself join in on violence, but then I'm not from london, where costs are far higher and the police are far more harsh than here in the northwest.

Just wanted to ensure at least a few people around the world saw things from another perspective - it's hardly middle eastern dictatorship around here but it still deserves action. The police ought to give more answers soon, and be far more transparent.

Edit: By harsh, again, I don't mean by the standards of dictatorships - just harsher than usual. I mean who kettles crowds with 14 year olds mixed in?
 

Dr Snakeman

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Rioting: the unofficial pastime of the entire European subcontinent.

I mean, the year's a little more than halfway over, and there have been news reports of... how many major riots? There was the student one in the UK, making this the second riot I have heard of that that damp little country has suffered.

There was a whole bunch of rioting in Greece a few months back. And I'm sure that I'm missing a few more, but my inferior American brain can't think of them, since I've been so corrupted by fatty food, conservative political thought, and bad TV comedies.

But yeah... what's up with the riots, man?
 

Dogstile

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BGH122 said:
Mad Stalin said:
Well, brits are bad at rioting, but contain with teargas and beanbag shotguns? Or you know, bigger cars
We're not allowed to use any of those things. We're not even allowed baton-rounds or water cannons. We're having kettling (containment, as other police forces in other countries call it) removed from us too. We're also not allowed to directly strike with batons to anywhere but main muscle mass (arms, legs, thigh).

I mainly wanted to hear peoples' containment strategies because I wanted to tick of the list of things we're not allowed to do against the list of suggestions. I'm not commenting on whether it's good or bad that we're not allowed to do those things, just gauging what the Escapists would do if they were allowed and how those beliefs tally up with those of government.

dogstile said:
Mad Stalin said:
Well, brits are bad at rioting, but contain with teargas and beanbag shotguns? Or you know, bigger cars
Aha, i've seen a beanbag shotgun used before. (also, in the UK, and no, it wasn't police issue).

It hit the bloke, who promptly looked at the guy who shot him, glared and charged. I doubt you could stop most of my countrymen that easily. It just pisses us off.
Was it an actual police officer firing the gun, or some kind of personal defence thing?
Nah. It was an intimidation thing between, well, I want to say gangs but i'm pretty sure it was just a couple blokes trying to mug a guy in an alley.

Definitely couldn't have been police, no uniform and the gun looked like crap, but it made a massive bang and went pretty damn fast, so i'm assuming it hurt.

Edit:

Its worth noting that the guy who was shot with it was 1. huge and 2. seriously, huge.
 

AngryMongoose

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Dr Snakeman said:
There was the student one in the UK, making this the second riot I have heard of that that damp little country has suffered.
Pff, that wasn't a riot. At most it was a kerfuffle. A commotion, perhaps.