Looking back, was the Wii mote too ahead of its time?

[chocolate pickles]

Yes, we didn't get the "1:1 motion" right out of the gate.

And thats exactly what i think was the problem: Take a look at the playstation 3 or xbox 360 controllers, even the early ones: Unless you had a physical fault with your controller, responsiveness was not a problem, and if it was, you had every right to think the controller was broke.

The wii mote failed to have the same ease of usability as these controllers, so why would anyone want to use one when they could use a another consoles superior controller? It cant be 'ahead of it's time' if it had aspects that were inferior to competing brands.

 

[themistermanguy]

Yes, we didn't get the "1:1 motion" right out of the gate.

And thats exactly what i think was the problem: Take a look at the playstation 3 or xbox 360 controllers, even the early ones: Unless you had a physical fault with your controller, responsiveness was not a problem, and if it was, you had every right to think the controller was broke.

The wii mote failed to have the same ease of usability as these controllers, so why would anyone want to use one when they could use a another consoles superior controller? It cant be 'ahead of it's time' if it had aspects that were inferior to competing brands.

I am fully aware that motion controls have inherent limitations. But there are genres where it works perfectly fine, in some cases better, than a traditional controler. Shooters, Racers, RTS, Point and Click adventure, tilt based games, and the occasional gesture in an action game. But there are places where it certainly doesn't need to be there like fighters, platformers, and for the most part, action games.

 

[chocolate pickles]

Yes, we didn't get the "1:1 motion" right out of the gate.

And thats exactly what i think was the problem: Take a look at the playstation 3 or xbox 360 controllers, even the early ones: Unless you had a physical fault with your controller, responsiveness was not a problem, and if it was, you had every right to think the controller was broke.

The wii mote failed to have the same ease of usability as these controllers, so why would anyone want to use one when they could use a another consoles superior controller? It cant be 'ahead of it's time' if it had aspects that were inferior to competing brands.

I am fully aware that motion controls have inherent limitations. But there are genres where it works perfectly fine, in some cases better, than a traditional controler. Shooters, Racers, RTS, Point and Click adventure, tilt based games, and the occasional gesture in an action game. But there are places where it certainly doesn't need to be there like fighters, platformers, and for the most part, action games.

To be honest, the only occasion when i thought 'actually, a motion control would make this easier' was when playing Dead space extraction on the ps3, and even then it wasn't too much of an issue using the controller.

The only games I've ever found motion controller more of a help than hindrance have been rail shooters, which isn't really much of a surprise when you consider that the gun you would use in an arcade game such as 'House Of The Dead' functions pretty much the same as a wii mode would in said games (point controller/gun at screen, press button/pull trigger).

 

[Maxtro]

The idea of the Wii mote was ahead of it's time but the technology behind it wasn't.

The Wii mote pretty much failed at what it was supposed to do.

 

[Something Amyss]

If you had to use motion controls for every game all the time the novelty of "I'm really shooting this gun!" would wear off pretty quick. It's why "Time Crisis" is fun for 10 minutes in the arcade but you don't always use a light-gun at home. It's overly convoluted and needless day to day.

For the record, I love light guns and only wish more was done with them. And if they could actually take a light gun mechanic and successfully integrate it into something other than rail shooters, I would be all over that shit.

But point taken.

 

[Raika]

The Wii Remote was a good implementation of an astoundingly bad idea. Motion controls in video games are innately terrible; they completely destroy the notion of immersion and attempt to fix what is not and never will be broken. I've never played a Wii game that actually felt like it needed its motion controls with the possible exception of Wii Fit, which I admit I found very entertaining for a very long time, but Wii Fit is not a video game in the traditional sense. It is built entirely around its motion controls, and when traditional video games in the sense that we've all known them for decades attempt to do the same thing, the result inevitably falls flat. Even in Wii games that I enjoyed, such as No More Heroes and Super Mario Galaxy, the motion controls did not add to the gameplay. More often than not, they hindered it. I never finished either of the aforementioned games due to the presence of idiotic Wii Remote-wiggling gimmicks in lieu of actual gameplay. Super Mario Galaxy in particular was a massive headache, given that it is mechanically inferior to Super Mario 64, which is like if a twenty-three-year-old man were a slower runner than his arthritic grandfather.

To summarize, my personal take is that the Wii Remote was not ahead of its time because there is no time for it. There is a place for it, but that place is in odd bits of software like Wii Fit that, while charming and occasionally useful, don't really qualify as video games from where I stand.

 

[themistermanguy]

I am fully aware that motion controls have inherent limitations. But there are genres where it works perfectly fine, in some cases better, than a traditional controler. Shooters, Racers, RTS, Point and Click adventure, tilt based games, and the occasional gesture in an action game. .

Well there are these things called Mice, im not sure if you've heard of them, that allow precise pointer control whislt (get this) having your arm comfortably at rest on a surface. This is often coupled with a, how do i say this, kee-bored which has literally dozens of buttons to use meaning you can perform array of complex tasks with ease because you simply press one of many buttons, instead of using one of many slight variations on a waggle, swipe or flail. Now i know it sounds too good to be true but trust me, i think it is the future.

True, but the Wiimotes IR Pointer is the closest thing to mouse like precision on a home console. And waggle isn't always bad if its used sparingly.

 

[themistermanguy]

For those saying motion controls are terrible for everything, play the following games.

Zelda: Skyward Sword
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Red Steel 2
Golden Eye
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Pikmin 3
Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart 8
Okami
Zak & Wiki
MadWorld
No More Heroes
Any Wii Rail shooter
The Truama Center games
Elebits
Dead Space: Extraction
Resident Evil 4
Super Mario Galaxy 1&2

Play those games and tell me that Motion controls make hose game worse. Motion controls aren't perfect, and you don't have to like them. But they have their place.

 

[Roxas1359]

For those saying motion controls are terrible for everything, play the following games.

Zelda: Skyward Sword
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Red Steel 2
Golden Eye
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Pikmin 3
Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart 8
Okami
Zak & Wiki
MadWorld
No More Heroes
Any Wii Rail shooter
The Truama Center games
Elebits
Dead Space: Extraction
Resident Evil 4
Super Mario Galaxy 1&2

Play those games and tell me that Motion controls make hose game worse. Motion controls aren't perfect, and you don't have to like them. But they have their place.

Out of that list, there are 20 titles that were on the Nintendo Wii. Keep in mind that the Nintendo Wii during it's lifetime had 1222 games. Minus the 20 there, and keep in mind many people have said they've had issues with the motion controls in Skyward Sword, and that leaves a total of 1202 games that either don't have motion control, or aren't very good with it. That's not a good ratio of working to not working at all really. We get it, you like the Wiimote and it's controls, but the Wiimote was neither ahead of it's time nor worked fully as Nintendo was hoping it would. Motion controls can get better in the future, but until that time people will prefer mouse and keyboard, or regular controllers than motion controls.

 

[7904589501]

"Post Removed"

 

[Flammablezeus]

Yahtzee said it best. Having to motion to make things happen in a game is less immerssive than simply thinking a thing and having that happen. That on a normal controller, you must move your finger a fraction of an inch is the closest thing we have to that.

Wii Motes were great for party games. That's about the only time my Wii gets use. I stopped using it for regular gaming when I decided I was really liking Mad World, except for the controller.

Now I have a Wii U. The tablet is fun. I can use the Wii Mote for parties. And I can use this inexpensive item:

How is it less immersive? Thinking something and then having it magically happen isn't at all immersive. Sorcery for PS Move was certainly the most immersed I've ever been in any magic game. It's an incredible feeling to perform a gesture and have a specific spell erupt from your wand because of it.

Metroid Prime 3 is another example. Not only is it faster and more fluid than using a regular controller, it's far more immersive. It's all about implementation.

I don't think "Immersion" means what you think it does. It's not about the idea of performing actions. The idea of good immersion is that a game feels like and extension of your body and therefore removes barriers from between you and the experience. I don't control my arms by having a tiny man inside my brain wave his arms about, then have my arms interpret those flailing gestures. I think it and it happens. The same is true for a good controller, the distance between your thought and the on-screen action is shortened by having it come though small finger movements.

The process goes like this

Thought --> Small, almost unconsciously done finger action --> Precise in game reaction.

But for motion controls you end up like this

Thought ----> Big, deliberate and very conscious movement motion control system can (hopefully) understand --> Game interprets your movements and gestures as best it can---> Hopefully correct on-screen action.

But good game controls plug you so directly into your character you could really just break it down into:

Thought ---> In game Action

Thought ---> Real world Action ---> Extrapolated in game action

It adds a whole extra step for most people, or at least makes that step more obvious, slower and require more derping about.

It's the same reason people don't play the piano or guitar by making wild flailing movements or waving at notes having something come through swift finger actions is the best way to interface with something and makes you best able to execute your thoughts into actions. Think about how much more dexterous your hands are than the rest of you (unless you are some kind of professional dancer/ acrobat; then kudos). The best 'immersion' takes you out of your body, having a process by which you are performing odd facsimiles of on screen actions means you can't place yourself inside of that game directly, you are still very obviously just moving your own body then having that go into the game.

It definitely means what I think it does. I'm not even sure you read my post since your reply seems to mention what immersive means and then goes into describing efficient control schemes instead. You also skipped over the fact that the control schemes for the games I played actually DID make them more immersive as it removed barriers between myself and the games. Plus, they were far more efficient than buttons and analogue sticks. Sure, you can be immersed with just pressing buttons, but not AS immersed as WELL-IMPLEMENTED (<core point here) motion controls for games that are designed around it.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I think if you've had 8 years of development for the second best selling console of all time and you've still failed to consistently produce games that justify your controller... then it was probably a really cruddy controller.

I mean how many reviews of games like Smash Bros or Mario Kart did I read where they said 'This is an awesome game, but it's even better if you plug in a gamecube controller'.

The Wiimote was really good at getting friends to stand up and look stupid which made it incredible as a controller for party games. However we have loooooooong ago dispelled the idea that it creates more compelling gameplay experiences or builds immersion. It does the opposite, it puts a barrier between you and the character on screen. Instead of being Dante, I'm the person waggling a stick that makes Dante move.


I mean how long are we willing to wait? If it's not found it's place now, do we have to wait another decade and see if this is the Wii motes time then?

yupp completely this, and more often then not, sporadically waggling like an idiot was better than doing the movement you wanted to be doing.

lets not even get started on the design of the actual nunchuk/controller itself (lack of buttons on both, the wiimote was not comfortable at all in any sort of long gaming session), there is a reason why even motion controls aside, the gamecube still dominated that fucker.

Maybe someday way down the road, in a NON-ESSENTIAL WAY (as in, doesn't sell with the system and make it unnecessarily expensive) the wiimote and kinect form together into a somewhat acceptable form of motion controls (I think there needs to be feedback on both the person and coming from the system/screen, not one or the other, and no, the stupid little wiibar is not feedback from the system) so we can give possible verbal or nonessential movements via the kinect portion while all the important bits are run through the controller(s) you're holding. Now to conclude my rant, I do think the wiimote was ahead of its time in that it sucked and wasn't remotely necessary in its generation. (yes I did sneak a pun in there)

 

[Atmos Duality]

No, not really.
If anything, it was a product of its time and only that time.

The best part of it was the screen pointer, which was the console's equivalent of a mouse (and yes, I know of a few console games that accept an actual mouse before you bring it up). Beyond that was just a bunch of remapped buttons from the Gamecube, which while amusing for a brief time, were of little practical use compared to a button (keyboard/gamepad).

But in no way was the Wiimote AHEAD of its time, or much of anything. It did exactly what it needed to do: be a cute gimmick to attract tons of new folks ("casuals") to Nintendo's moneytrain.

The real test of the Wiimote's timeliness was not how well the Wii did, but how quickly it fell.
And fall it did in late 2010 early 2011. HARD. Once the casuals got tired of the amusing gimmick they moved on to whatever was next (smartphones, tablets), and core gamers on the whole had little love for the Wiimote.

 

[themistermanguy]

For those saying motion controls are terrible for everything, play the following games.

Zelda: Skyward Sword
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Red Steel 2
Golden Eye
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Pikmin 3
Mario Kart Wii and Mario Kart 8
Okami
Zak & Wiki
MadWorld
No More Heroes
Any Wii Rail shooter
The Truama Center games
Elebits
Dead Space: Extraction
Resident Evil 4
Super Mario Galaxy 1&2

Play those games and tell me that Motion controls make hose game worse. Motion controls aren't perfect, and you don't have to like them. But they have their place.

Out of that list, there are 20 titles that were on the Nintendo Wii. Keep in mind that the Nintendo Wii during it's lifetime had 1222 games. Minus the 20 there, and keep in mind many people have said they've had issues with the motion controls in Skyward Sword, and that leaves a total of 1202 games that either don't have motion control, or aren't very good with it. That's not a good ratio of working to not working at all really. We get it, you like the Wiimote and it's controls, but the Wiimote was neither ahead of it's time nor worked fully as Nintendo was hoping it would. Motion controls can get better in the future, but until that time people will prefer mouse and keyboard, or regular controllers than motion controls.

I only listed the ones I knew of the top of my head, not the the total amount of games that use it well.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

Your just exagerating. The Wii mote worked fine with most of the games I played. In fact, some games couldn't have been done without it.

I actually am not. My experience with the device is almost wholly negative. For me it just doesn't work.

 

[themistermanguy]

Your just exagerating. The Wii mote worked fine with most of the games I played. In fact, some games couldn't have been done without it.

I actually am not. My experience with the device is almost wholly negative. For me it just doesn't work.

Well for most of the Wii games I played, I rarely, if ever ran into an instance where the Wiimote doesn't work. Then again, it could be me knowing which Wii games to specificaly avoid.

 

[ryessknight]

Yea abit. The idea was interesting and on the rare times it worked it was kinda fun but the tech just wasnt ready yet. Nintendo really needed to test it better and iron out the flaws abit more before it was released. Still better then the godawful kinect though. I wish microsoft would just let that thing die already. Wouldnt mind seeing a improved wiimote someday in the future though.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

I only got a handful of games for my Wii, and I didn't play them much.

I REALLY didn't like the Wii controller and nunchuk. It always irked me that they had +,-,1,2 buttons instead of ABXY or start/select and had them placed so far from each other. It made sense when playing Paper Mario and holding it sideways but it became a pain in some games. I'd end up hitting the home button quite often on accident.

Other M in particular was just awful to play as you had to keep changing how you held the damn controller rapidly.

RE4 worked okay, but I still preferred the PS2 version I unfortunately sold.

Skyward Sword worked just fine aside from that bamboo slicing game being a pain in the ass to do.

I just don't like motion controls.

Which begs the question of why I even got a Wii, and I guess it was because at the time I had a lot f money and some uncharacteristic optimism. After all I had every Nintendo console ever (even Virtual boy) at that point. There is a reason I have no plans on getting a Wii U.

Chief among them being that I didn't like having to buy batteries for the Wii controller that burned through them despite my very infrequent bouts of use. I know the Wii U is rechargeable but I also know it has a very short capacity and is a giant tablet instead of a proper controller.

Perhaps its awesome, and I need to give it a try. I don't have any money to spare on wishful thinking with another Nintendo console.

The Wii controller itself was certainly ahead of its time, then everyone tried to copy it when the novelty was already played out.

The steering wheel for Mario Kart was total garbage and I pitied anyone that actually used it for ranked races. I used my gamecube controller iirc and routinely took first place in race after race during the week or two I played it and I'm no pro. Rosalina ftw.