Looks like LulzSec is in trouble

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Laxman9292

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starkiller212 said:
I just love how unanimous the "fuck hackers, they deserve what they get" sentiment is. Totally consistent with how almost nobody gets upset when mass-murdering terrorists get assassinated or waterboarded.

I guess I really just shouldn't be surprised by how shitty people are anymore.
Because they're mad at hackers for violating their privacy and risking their personal information. And they're mad at terrorists because they are fucking terrorists!!!! I mean for Christ's sake it has terror in the title! Frankly, we save a lot more innocent lives for every terrorist caught. I would torture/kill ten terrorists to save one innocent civilians life, let alone waterboard one to save thousands.

Terrorists and hackers are both bad, is it weird to support their punishment?
 

Laxman9292

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Atheist. said:
maddawg IAJI said:
DeadSp8s said:
Awexsome said:
DeadSp8s said:
you wanna watch the FBI and Sony ream guys in the ass?
Totally. They deserve every minute of jailtime they get over it.
Why? Cause you couldn't play Socom for a couple days?

Didn't Sony sell PS3 touting their capability to run multiple operating systems (i.e. Linux) and then go back on that by removing functions and punishing it's users until they updated their PS3's to remove the capability to run other OS's?

Sounds like Sony should be punished....oh wait
Its still a criminal act. Regardless of what Sony did, it does not give anyone the right hack them.

If you light your cheating ex's car on fire, you will be arrested for Arson.
I agree with you in some respects, but rebellions against governments are technically illegal. Yet people who have openly rebelled have made create changes for countries across the globe. For a very simple example, look at America. We're no longer a colony, thanks to rebellion of some nature. It is VERY hard to create a change in this world with non-violent means. People that are non-violent get trampled and brushed under the rug.

While my example was a bit extreme, it is the same concept. Consumers rebelling against companies that have completely unreasonable ToS. If I wanted to lease a game system, I'd buy a damn PC (Which I already have.) Dictating what I do with my physical property is not only absurd, but is in violation of consumer rights. These companies need to take a step back. If they REALLY think they're leasing you a console, put it that way at the point of sale. Consoles are the only example I can think of where you buy something and are dictated to use it as instructed, aside from software (Different case entirely.)

To be clear, I'm obviously referencing the PS3 here. Between my PS3 and the games I've bought I've spent well over 3 grand. I just get pissed when I company I support so much treats me like a criminal.
It's not the hardware they're particularly worried about, I sincerely doubt they care if you mod your console to play ported games. It is the code that you have no right to. They are worried about people having access to their own privately developed and copyrighted code that could easily be stoled and replicated or tweaked. That code is something the consumer has no right to, the didn't make it, it isn't theirs. You're just paying for the use of the finished product, not the rights to the coding.
 

FalloutJack

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The Rockerfly said:
I gotta say bull on this, a group as talented would not make such a simple mistake and get caught so early.
Hell I am almost rooting for them to see what they'll do next. Kind of like the way I would keep the joker out of prison
No no no, I cannot agree. You see, mercenaries keep out of jail, being mercenaries. Well, not always, but you expect that they would because they're mercenaries. The Lulzies are not mercenaries, and they're not doing things like keeping under the wire or necessarily being all that clever. More to the point, they ARE human. Humans make mistakes, big and small ones. If this were Mythbusters, I'd have to call Plausible on this. On one side, you have the government, paid to deal with shit like this. On the other, you have hackers hacking sites right and left. To me, this makes perfect sense.
 

boag

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Witty Name Here said:
Beardly said:
I'm really surprised by how many people are really rooting against LulzSec. I don't think they're heroes or anything but I also can't sympathize with a multi-billion dollar company enough to villanize them the way most of the people in this thread are.
No offense, but why can't you sympathize with a company enough to villanize those people? It was a HUGE loss to them, it would be no different if you were to run something akin to a small town pastry shop and then had to deal with customers finding out that a few "pranksters" hid cockroaches and various forms of bugs in all the food you made "for fun"

It ruined business, cost a few people their anonymity, and was just an overall embarrassment for the company, LulzSec has everything they're going to get coming to them.
Did the bakery act like total dicks and told people they couldnt eat the cake except with the special plates and utensils that they sell there?

Did the Bakery sue a person for not using said special plates and utensils?
 

The Rockerfly

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FalloutJack said:
The Rockerfly said:
I gotta say bull on this, a group as talented would not make such a simple mistake and get caught so early.
Hell I am almost rooting for them to see what they'll do next. Kind of like the way I would keep the joker out of prison
No no no, I cannot agree. You see, mercenaries keep out of jail, being mercenaries. Well, not always, but you expect that they would because they're mercenaries. The Lulzies are not mercenaries, and they're not doing things like keeping under the wire or necessarily being all that clever. More to the point, they ARE human. Humans make mistakes, big and small ones. If this were Mythbusters, I'd have to call Plausible on this. On one side, you have the government, paid to deal with shit like this. On the other, you have hackers hacking sites right and left. To me, this makes perfect sense.
Oh I agree it is plausible but I don't think it is because
1) The timing is too perfect, it would be great for everyone now that the bad guy is gone. Call me a conspiracy nut but I think the government would love to blame anyone so they could quite this all up

2) While they would make mistakes, the group would still make massive efforts to hide their tracks so if one method fails then the others would still conceal them. If they didn't then this group is much more arrogant than I thought

However I am not ruling it out because like you said they could have screwed up and this one member could have really screwed up. I think it is unlikely though but that's just my opinion.
 

manaman

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Jeffrey Rodriguez said:
Sony never did anything illegal. All they did was remove a people many people didn't use, and most of the ones who did abused. So scorn Sony if you want for that, but I don't for that, now the removal of backwards compatibility in their later PS3's I do somewhat scorn them for. And, I agree as well that these people deserve jail time in the very least.
Illegal or not it sets a horrible precedent for a company to be able to remove advertised features from a product at their whim and without compensation. I don't care how many people use it. They are perfectly justified in removing the feature from new models of the product, but to go back and remove it from those already sold with it as an advertised feature is reprehensible at best.

I guess I am just old school and think that companies should be held up to at least the same standards they think their customers should be held up to.

Awexsome said:
DeadSp8s said:
Awexsome said:
DeadSp8s said:
you wanna watch the FBI and Sony ream guys in the ass?
Totally. They deserve every minute of jailtime they get over it.
Why? Cause you couldn't play Socom for a couple days?

Didn't Sony sell PS3 touting their capability to run multiple operating systems (i.e. Linux) and then go back on that by removing functions and punishing it's users until they updated their PS3's to remove the capability to run other OS's?

Sounds like Sony should be punished....oh wait
That argument is old, half-truthed, and no longer relevant.

Geohotz's case is over. If it were up to me he'd be in jail too but that's not the point anymore.

The point is now there is a criminal group at large who feel they are above the law and are perfectly willing to abuse that sense of power for nefarious means like breaking into Sony's private databases to gain access to info they aren't allowed to and compromise that sensitive information. No company deserves that. To think that is immature and stupid.
The argument that people shouldn't be dipping their hands in the candy jar doesn't remove responsibility from a company to protect data. Sure they is only so much they can do, but if you have been following the floundering of Sony it seems pretty apparent that their security is a bit lackluster. Fault lies on both sides.

As for the rest of that you seem ready to string up anyone that doesn't toe the Sony line, but refuse to even knowledge that Sony did wrong. It's a bit... Fanboyish.
 

FalloutJack

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The Rockerfly said:
FalloutJack said:
The Rockerfly said:
I gotta say bull on this, a group as talented would not make such a simple mistake and get caught so early.
Hell I am almost rooting for them to see what they'll do next. Kind of like the way I would keep the joker out of prison
No no no, I cannot agree. You see, mercenaries keep out of jail, being mercenaries. Well, not always, but you expect that they would because they're mercenaries. The Lulzies are not mercenaries, and they're not doing things like keeping under the wire or necessarily being all that clever. More to the point, they ARE human. Humans make mistakes, big and small ones. If this were Mythbusters, I'd have to call Plausible on this. On one side, you have the government, paid to deal with shit like this. On the other, you have hackers hacking sites right and left. To me, this makes perfect sense.
Oh I agree it is plausible but I don't think it is because
1) The timing is too perfect, it would be great for everyone now that the bad guy is gone. Call me a conspiracy nut but I think the government would love to blame anyone so they could quite this all up

2) While they would make mistakes, the group would still make massive efforts to hide their tracks so if one method fails then the others would still conceal them. If they didn't then this group is much more arrogant than I thought

However I am not ruling it out because like you said they could have screwed up and this one member could have really screwed up. I think it is unlikely though but that's just my opinion.
I dunno about timing. Good timing would've been last week, or a month ago. You know...when the mess actually started in earnest. So, I tend to think that it's akin to a World War II response. The U.S. goes "Yes, we're aware of these issues, we're monitering it and- Hot damn, someone just attacked a base of ours! Saddle up!", and then came The Longest Day. It...makes a kind of sense to me.

But even still, this isn't 'bad guy gone', so much as "Look, we're working on it, okay?". I don't think it's perfect and I don't think it's a sham because it's actually too SOON for a sham. A funny thing is that I've read some background on some of the more famous hacks done in earlier computer history, about the damage caused, and I would say this is actually something they'd want to nip in the bud BECAUSE of hacker history. You'd want results with that sort of thing, not propaganda, because if it doesn't actually stop...people will know.
 

samsonguy920

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I hope this pans out. If it flops then it is only going to make things worse. People may as well cancel their credit and debit cards and pay with just cash or barter if something isn't done to rein this in.
And for the record, nothing justifies breaking into something just because you feel the security isn't good enough. If you feel so strongly about it, then you tell the company and if they don't listen, then you sell your shares and don't do any business with them. You do not break into someone's home just because they don't use the deadbolt. That's breaking the same law as any other burglar and deserve the same amount of time. Not to mention asking to get shot for the act by the resident.
This is just more of the same mentality of most internet users, that of non-accountability. You can get away with a bunch of shit just because you aren't really there to get punched in the face.
It is high time for a wake up call.
Beardly said:
I'm really surprised by how many people are really rooting against LulzSec. I don't think they're heroes or anything but I also can't sympathize with a multi-billion dollar company enough to villanize them the way most of the people in this thread are.
Nobody's sympathizing with Sony(except its shareholders). Sony doesn't need it, and could care less. It is the people whose personal information was made vulnerable to these immature tards that are the real victims.
If it makes you feel better, Sony is going to be taking hits from this to the end of the year as they lose consumer confidence. Companies like LG, Nintendo, Microsoft, Pioneer, Samsung, Motorola, and others whose products compete with Sony's are going to win out of this. Well maybe not Nintendo so much since they got hit, too. And who is to say that more companies are going to get the same? Though it may decrease over time as most companies have already stepped up their security, hopefully in the direction of intruder awareness. If the attackers do become known, that opens them up to civil litigation which can be much more painful than criminal court alone.
Does that mean a win for consumers? No. Because it will hit national economies as well because of Sony's size and its impact around the world. Jobs are already being lost, and in that alone it continues an avalanche that affects everyone.
There is nothing to be proud of here, nothing to be gained. This action doesn't come close to the Holocaust, but has the same flavor when you take into account the lack of empathy or sense of responsibility to those affected by the actions made by those responsible.
 

Awexsome

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manaman said:
Jeffrey Rodriguez said:
Sony never did anything illegal. All they did was remove a people many people didn't use, and most of the ones who did abused. So scorn Sony if you want for that, but I don't for that, now the removal of backwards compatibility in their later PS3's I do somewhat scorn them for. And, I agree as well that these people deserve jail time in the very least.
Illegal or not it sets a horrible precedent for a company to be able to remove advertised features from a product at their whim and without compensation. I don't care how many people use it. They are perfectly justified in removing the feature from new models of the product, but to go back and remove it from those already sold with it as an advertised feature is reprehensible at best.

I guess I am just old school and think that companies should be held up to at least the same standards they think their customers should be held up to.

Awexsome said:
DeadSp8s said:
Awexsome said:
DeadSp8s said:
you wanna watch the FBI and Sony ream guys in the ass?
Totally. They deserve every minute of jailtime they get over it.
Why? Cause you couldn't play Socom for a couple days?

Didn't Sony sell PS3 touting their capability to run multiple operating systems (i.e. Linux) and then go back on that by removing functions and punishing it's users until they updated their PS3's to remove the capability to run other OS's?

Sounds like Sony should be punished....oh wait
That argument is old, half-truthed, and no longer relevant.

Geohotz's case is over. If it were up to me he'd be in jail too but that's not the point anymore.

The point is now there is a criminal group at large who feel they are above the law and are perfectly willing to abuse that sense of power for nefarious means like breaking into Sony's private databases to gain access to info they aren't allowed to and compromise that sensitive information. No company deserves that. To think that is immature and stupid.
The argument that people shouldn't be dipping their hands in the candy jar doesn't remove responsibility from a company to protect data. Sure they is only so much they can do, but if you have been following the floundering of Sony it seems pretty apparent that their security is a bit lackluster. Fault lies on both sides.

As for the rest of that you seem ready to string up anyone that doesn't toe the Sony line, but refuse to even knowledge that Sony did wrong. It's a bit... Fanboyish.
Perhaps the first intrusion against their so called sucky security was a wake-up call. But I don't believe their security was so flimsy since it stood up to anything but this organized illegal hacker group for so many years no matter what any "internet expert" on this kind of stuff says. Now lulz-sec is repeatedly attempting to break down the door as Sony tries to rebuild it to protect the customers who trusted them with their data.

A 'serves you right' for the first intrusion is in bad taste but perhaps justifiable to some.

The moment after lulz-sec released so many innocent bystanders data out to the public they were the bad guys. The earlier Geohotz case had a lot of grey but this one is not.

The company trying to rebuild to protect its customers or the outlaws trying to sabotage the company. This matter is quite black and white for good guys bad guys at this point.
 

The Rockerfly

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FalloutJack said:
I dunno about timing. Good timing would've been last week, or a month ago. You know...when the mess actually started in earnest. So, I tend to think that it's akin to a World War II response. The U.S. goes "Yes, we're aware of these issues, we're monitering it and- Hot damn, someone just attacked a base of ours! Saddle up!", and then came The Longest Day. It...makes a kind of sense to me.

But even still, this isn't 'bad guy gone', so much as "Look, we're working on it, okay?". I don't think it's perfect and I don't think it's a sham because it's actually too SOON for a sham. A funny thing is that I've read some background on some of the more famous hacks done in earlier computer history, about the damage caused, and I would say this is actually something they'd want to nip in the bud BECAUSE of hacker history. You'd want results with that sort of thing, not propaganda, because if it doesn't actually stop...people will know.
Well propaganda in the internet era is much harder to do so they can't make it blindingly obvious however the government can release a statement saying the think they caught the guy even with little to no evidence.

Still Sony is a massive corporation and for the amount they are losing in this situation it wouldn't surprise me if they were dealing under the table
 

samsonguy920

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FalloutJack said:
The Rockerfly said:
FalloutJack said:
The Rockerfly said:
I gotta say bull on this, a group as talented would not make such a simple mistake and get caught so early.
Hell I am almost rooting for them to see what they'll do next. Kind of like the way I would keep the joker out of prison
No no no, I cannot agree. You see, mercenaries keep out of jail, being mercenaries. Well, not always, but you expect that they would because they're mercenaries. The Lulzies are not mercenaries, and they're not doing things like keeping under the wire or necessarily being all that clever. More to the point, they ARE human. Humans make mistakes, big and small ones. If this were Mythbusters, I'd have to call Plausible on this. On one side, you have the government, paid to deal with shit like this. On the other, you have hackers hacking sites right and left. To me, this makes perfect sense.
Oh I agree it is plausible but I don't think it is because
1) The timing is too perfect, it would be great for everyone now that the bad guy is gone. Call me a conspiracy nut but I think the government would love to blame anyone so they could quite this all up

2) While they would make mistakes, the group would still make massive efforts to hide their tracks so if one method fails then the others would still conceal them. If they didn't then this group is much more arrogant than I thought

However I am not ruling it out because like you said they could have screwed up and this one member could have really screwed up. I think it is unlikely though but that's just my opinion.
I dunno about timing. Good timing would've been last week, or a month ago. You know...when the mess actually started in earnest. So, I tend to think that it's akin to a World War II response. The U.S. goes "Yes, we're aware of these issues, we're monitering it and- Hot damn, someone just attacked a base of ours! Saddle up!", and then came The Longest Day. It...makes a kind of sense to me.

But even still, this isn't 'bad guy gone', so much as "Look, we're working on it, okay?". I don't think it's perfect and I don't think it's a sham because it's actually too SOON for a sham. A funny thing is that I've read some background on some of the more famous hacks done in earlier computer history, about the damage caused, and I would say this is actually something they'd want to nip in the bud BECAUSE of hacker history. You'd want results with that sort of thing, not propaganda, because if it doesn't actually stop...people will know.
Anything earlier than now would have been suspicious. LulzSec has probably been in the FBI's silent watch list for some time, and with them surfacing now to do the hijinks they did probably kicked things into high gear, so it shouldn't be surprising that this happened within this time frame.
I was about to point out your WW2 analogy was weak, but it got me to thinking of how many times the Pentagon and other institutions of the government have been hacked and how little response or results we heard until now, when a corporate entity gets affected. Now it is time to Saddle Up! to get the bad guys. It is more of the "protect the too large to fail" crap, but it also serves us as well. Think I can let it slide. Things are bad enough around the world as they are without Sony going belly-up taking GodKnowsWhat with it. Frankly I think we'd have better odds of surviving the big banks failing than companies like Sony.
 

FalloutJack

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The Rockerfly said:
FalloutJack said:
I dunno about timing. Good timing would've been last week, or a month ago. You know...when the mess actually started in earnest. So, I tend to think that it's akin to a World War II response. The U.S. goes "Yes, we're aware of these issues, we're monitering it and- Hot damn, someone just attacked a base of ours! Saddle up!", and then came The Longest Day. It...makes a kind of sense to me.

But even still, this isn't 'bad guy gone', so much as "Look, we're working on it, okay?". I don't think it's perfect and I don't think it's a sham because it's actually too SOON for a sham. A funny thing is that I've read some background on some of the more famous hacks done in earlier computer history, about the damage caused, and I would say this is actually something they'd want to nip in the bud BECAUSE of hacker history. You'd want results with that sort of thing, not propaganda, because if it doesn't actually stop...people will know.
Well propaganda in the internet era is much harder to do so they can't make it blindingly obvious however the government can release a statement saying the think they caught the guy even with little to no evidence.

Still Sony is a massive corporation and for the amount they are losing in this situation it wouldn't surprise me if they were dealing under the table
Just remember that rumors and gossip fly faster than propaganda. They weigh even less, you see.
 

The Rockerfly

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FalloutJack said:
Just remember that rumors and gossip fly faster than propaganda. They weigh even less, you see.
We'll see what happens then, hopefully lulzSec will be caught but I am quite intrigued to see what they'll do next.
 

Tyrak

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Okay, so these guys are some of the cockiest I've ever seen, but...At the same time, I kind of like them. From what I've seen they haven't done a ton of stuff that's done a lot of harm, like, say, stealing credit card info from Sony's playerbase. Most of their actions seem.../Relatively/ harmless. Obviously some of it isn't cool, but a lot of it isn't really super-devastating, and when someone -did- leak information that shouldn't have been leaked, they promptly made him pay for it. If they can be believed, that is.

Honestly I don't know who to root for here. They're incredibly cocky, that's for sure, but they're also doing a decent job in teaching companies how incredibly bad their security is. (And in the case of the FBI? That's...Uh, important.)

At the end of the day: It's better that /they/ hack the government than a group that means genuine harm. Like hostile foreign powers or something. That's completely possible, and I'd rather have these guys hacking people and showing them their security flaws, than us finding out after real harm has been done. They don't seem so bad.

That's my opinion anyway.
 

Grey Walker

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Probably too buried for anyone to read, but I digress.

LulzSec needs to be stopped. They have enough skill to hack into multiple high level corporations and cause massive data leaks that compromise millions of people's security. They are just doing it for fun now, for which I am thankful. If they turned their sights to making money off the credit card information they've stolen, then millions of dollars would be lost. It would be easier to track them down due to bank security measures attached to credit cards, which is likely the reason that they don't do it. I think that if they could find a way around those measures, this would be for profit instead of the "lulz".

As it is, they are still able to cause not only millions of dollars to be lost in damages and hiring of more security firms, but they are also placing at risk the livelihood of every single employee of Sony. The tech guys, programmers, customer support, and the salesmen in their stores. Not to mention all product manufactures and programmers, as well as game designers. I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm willing to bet that there are at least hundreds of thousands of low level employees at Sony who need the jobs they have, especially considering that the world is just getting out of a major economic depression, not to mention the recent earthquake in Japan which certainly would not raise employment rates. If Sony is killed by this, all of these people will be out of a job.

Now for those who say Sony deserved it, I heartily disagree. I admittedly haven't done enough research into the topic, but here's a theroy. Let me know if it holds water.

- Sony releases the PS3 with the ability to install a different OS on it, allowing for cheaper exportation as well as increasing their consumer base by having people buy them as cheaper personal computers.

- A group of people install Linux on their PS3s. (Now from what I understand of Linux, if you know what you're doing you can make it do anything you want.)

- A portion of this group use the capabilities of this to pirate games on a large scale, and hack cheats into multiplayer services, damaging several companies and the multiplayer experience for other gamers. (Speculation on my part, if you know please conform or deny.)

- At this point, Sony could ignore this problem, which would likely cause legitimate users to switch to other gaming systems, but would keep their expanded market. They could alternatively patch the software preventing people who use OtherOS from playing in online games. The problem with that is that these people have Linux, and would likely bypass any security measure that they create (Costing Sony a fair ***** of change) and the whole thing is back to square one, with Sony having gained nothing except lighter wallets and annoyed customers.

- Rather than do this, Sony releases an update nerfing OtherOS, returning stability to online and striking a blow on pirates, at the cost of punishing everyone who installed OtherOS, regardless of whether or not they were using it for illicit purposes. This earns legitimate ire for Sony and damages their reputation and consumer base as they can't punish only the criminals.

- GeoHotz releases a way to get OtherOS back despite the update. Sony throws everything they can at it trying to stop it in order to prevent the above problems. They go way too far and earn the ire of the hacker community.

- The hacking begins, the initial hack causing hackers to swarm Sony with hacking attempts like sharks to blood. (On this, I think the general assumption is that every single attack made it in. This I doubt. If you have ten thousand people trying to hack you simultaneously, it seems impossible to think that some won't get through. And then once some do get through, a quick posting of script will make it so they're all getting through before you can cover the hole. Rinse and repeat.)

- Personal data is exposed. PSN goes down. Sony's handling of this is sub par. Rage spreads across the internet, attracting more hackers.

- A crippled Sony tries to get the PSN back up as soon as possible while trying to protect their customer's personal information. A security and PR nightmare ensues.

- The PSN comes back up. The hacking attempts persist, with new holes in security being discovered while the old ones have been long fixed.

- LulzSec emerges with a strong set of hackers determined to take down Sony, regardless of who else gets hurt in the process. Nintendo and InfraGard also suffer hacks, although these receive less publicity than continued Sony hacks.

- The FBI claims to have arrested a member of LulzSec, although it is as of yet unclear whether there is proof, or if anything will come of it.

- LulzSec denies association with said person. (If I was LulzSec and he in fact had no affiliation, I would start a campaign indicating that he IS in fact part of LulzSec, leading the FBI on a wild goose chase for a bit. But that's just me.)

This is getting far too long to hold most people's attention, so I'll end with this:

This incident could have far reaching repercussions about how anonymity is handled online. It is not something that should be taken lightly or ignored. If a major company can be brought down by a group of people hiding behind computer screens to dodge persecution for what is undoubtedly an act of cyber-terrorism, then it is almost a certainty that governments worldwide will take action to quash online anonymity in order to prevent chaos, especially with so much being online in this day and age.
 

manaman

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Awexsome said:
manaman said:
Jeffrey Rodriguez said:
Sony never did anything illegal. All they did was remove a people many people didn't use, and most of the ones who did abused. So scorn Sony if you want for that, but I don't for that, now the removal of backwards compatibility in their later PS3's I do somewhat scorn them for. And, I agree as well that these people deserve jail time in the very least.
Illegal or not it sets a horrible precedent for a company to be able to remove advertised features from a product at their whim and without compensation. I don't care how many people use it. They are perfectly justified in removing the feature from new models of the product, but to go back and remove it from those already sold with it as an advertised feature is reprehensible at best.

I guess I am just old school and think that companies should be held up to at least the same standards they think their customers should be held up to.

Awexsome said:
DeadSp8s said:
Awexsome said:
DeadSp8s said:
you wanna watch the FBI and Sony ream guys in the ass?
Totally. They deserve every minute of jailtime they get over it.
Why? Cause you couldn't play Socom for a couple days?

Didn't Sony sell PS3 touting their capability to run multiple operating systems (i.e. Linux) and then go back on that by removing functions and punishing it's users until they updated their PS3's to remove the capability to run other OS's?

Sounds like Sony should be punished....oh wait
That argument is old, half-truthed, and no longer relevant.

Geohotz's case is over. If it were up to me he'd be in jail too but that's not the point anymore.

The point is now there is a criminal group at large who feel they are above the law and are perfectly willing to abuse that sense of power for nefarious means like breaking into Sony's private databases to gain access to info they aren't allowed to and compromise that sensitive information. No company deserves that. To think that is immature and stupid.
The argument that people shouldn't be dipping their hands in the candy jar doesn't remove responsibility from a company to protect data. Sure they is only so much they can do, but if you have been following the floundering of Sony it seems pretty apparent that their security is a bit lackluster. Fault lies on both sides.

As for the rest of that you seem ready to string up anyone that doesn't toe the Sony line, but refuse to even knowledge that Sony did wrong. It's a bit... Fanboyish.
Perhaps the first intrusion against their so called sucky security was a wake-up call. But I don't believe their security was so flimsy since it stood up to anything but this organized illegal hacker group for so many years no matter what any "internet expert" on this kind of stuff says. Now lulz-sec is repeatedly attempting to break down the door as Sony tries to rebuild it to protect the customers who trusted them with their data.

A 'serves you right' for the first intrusion is in bad taste but perhaps justifiable to some.

The moment after lulz-sec released so many innocent bystanders data out to the public they were the bad guys. The earlier Geohotz case had a lot of grey but this one is not.

The company trying to rebuild to protect its customers or the outlaws trying to sabotage the company. This matter is quite black and white for good guys bad guys at this point.
I'm getting a vibe here from your post that you think hacking works like it does in the movies. That there is furious keyboarding skills and frantic typing going on at both ends and Sony's security team is sitting around screaming about how the hackers just took down firewall number 128, and their valiant efforts are going to waste as the brunt of the internet shock troops are descending upon them. HACK THE GIBSON! I got a little carried away there, sorry.

I never claimed the hackers had credibility, I said without mincing words (or so I thought) that hacking Sony was wrong in the first place. What I was getting at is that them being wrong does not absolve Sony of all responsibility. What the group did with the data after the fact has no meaning on that. Trying to pain this in black and white removes all responsibility from Sony, which should by no means happen. At the very least Sony has a responsibility to learn from it's mistakes, but they seem more interested in passing the blame onto other parties at this point. Going back to the analogy to a bank that keeps cropping up, would you blame the bank if they left a vent to an ally unguarded that lead directly into the vault and that was used to rob the place blind before the bank security could do anything to prevent it? Would you still blame them if the security could prove beyond a doubt they didn't know about the vent because it didn't exist on the blueprints given to security? I don't think I could press full responsibility on any one agency, but the bank (for not sharing the information about the vent with security), and security (for not exploring for weaknesses on their own, and finding solutions to them) would certainly share in the blame.


Now ignoring the whole Geohotz deal which I didn't bring up, and was against the law - however bad the law in that case is: There is no real gray area in what Sony did. They removed advertised features from a product after it had been sold. That is wrong. As wrong as me selling you a cell phone that makes free calls then forcing an update on the product down the road that removes it's ability to make calls. People only seem forgiving in this regard because it wasn't a core feature to most.
 

Denariax

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Nov 3, 2010
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...so what? I don't think it really matters, to be honest. Corporations will always corrupt, gamers will always ***** about what they want when they want it, and News channels will always be jelly. Deal with it.