Lord of the Rings is my Star Wars.
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I'd note that the Oscars are more political than anything. Also that LOTR was not nearly as big an influence to the future of movies as Star Wars was. Case in point ILM came into existence because of Star Wars and special effects may not have been as far advanced without ILM's influence. LOTR may not even have been made into a set of films if not for Star Wars but I'd say the reverse isn't a likely thing.Kolby Jack said:
I'm not denigrating LOTR though I think the influence of LOTR comes less from Jackson's movies and more from the books themselves and there are more people who've been inspired by the Star Wars films than LOTR films.
Its nice that you like LOTR like that, and I won't say you don't have a right to think that way. But realize those movies will never have the impact that Star Wars has had, and seems to continue to have, on society.
Well, I can probably chime in and say Star Trek was my personal Star Wars more than anything. Then again, I've never seen the full original trilogy until a week ago and, actually, didn't finish Return of the Jedi so I'm still not sure but I thought the first was kinda ass and Empire was beautiful as fuck approaching the ending, especially after the revelation. The music totally made the scene as well.
...where was I? Oh yeah. OP I have no idea what your point is.
...where was I? Oh yeah. OP I have no idea what your point is.
What Clerks II clip? I never saw Clerks II. SOMEONE POST ITKolby Jack said:
I love that the Hobbit movies happened, because now I have something I can point to for Lord of the Rings fans and say "See that? Imagine that, but way worse... that's the prequel trilogy for classic fans."
Hard to predict, though, that's something we have to wait and see about. And I would say that while Star Wars was fairly shallow (and I don't mean that as a criticism, this was quite deliberate), Harry Potter does try to deal with issues such as bigotry in a way that LotR didn't try to.Fox12 said:
(Well, excepting in ways we don't tend to approve of nowdays, Tolkien had serious class and race and gender issues)
I think that when the dust settles we will find that for all it's warts Star Wars is going to come down as having a far greater impact on both culture and some of the more technical aspects of making movies than LotR. It's easy to forget that with Lucas' obsession with green screen in the Prequels, he basically saw practical effects come to pretty close to their uppermost limit with the original series. He also made adventure serial movies pretty much mainstream and big budget where before they were low budget trash movies that filled gaps in theater rosters.
In story and writing, they were...meh, but I was not overly impressed with Tolkien's incredibly stilted writing either. As grand in scale as LotR was, it read like a tourist brochure of a fictional nation more often than not. Something something, opinions.
Tolkien paved the way for modern fantasy, but the movies did nothing new or special in my opinion. The Rings movies did not make modern fantasy hit the big screen because Star Wars had already done that. Plus ushered in a whole new set of tools for special effects at the same time.
Having said that, the Prequels were still turds.
In story and writing, they were...meh, but I was not overly impressed with Tolkien's incredibly stilted writing either. As grand in scale as LotR was, it read like a tourist brochure of a fictional nation more often than not. Something something, opinions.
Tolkien paved the way for modern fantasy, but the movies did nothing new or special in my opinion. The Rings movies did not make modern fantasy hit the big screen because Star Wars had already done that. Plus ushered in a whole new set of tools for special effects at the same time.
Having said that, the Prequels were still turds.
I think it just feels weird to be excited for the new Star Wars movie...and yet, not so much that everyone is just so EXCITED. Like, having so much depending on this. Like, how my dad is in on some joke that I haven't seen that if JJ Abrams fucks this up, he'll forever be known as Jar Jar Abrams...I think I'm surprised he isn't known as that already. But, I'm already just sort of "eh" on JJ Abrams. I mean, Star Trek was pretty good, Star Trek Into Darkness was...sort of the same movie except it tried to do something that just sort of cornered itself into never pleasing anybody.
Could that be where Star Wars is heading? I guess time will tell.
But, yeah, I have to agree, LOTR was basically my defining moment as much as Star Wars was to other people. Actually, both series pretty much were. But I can remember a time before knowing LOTR, but I don't think I'll ever remember a time before knowing Star Wars. But, fuck me, at that age, even the prequel movies were good to me, and, if nothing else, I think that means at least something. But LOTR was sort of where it was at, with it's strong opener and strong finisher. And then I got to grow up to see the sort of mad genius behind Peter Jackson after wards after seeing Dead Alive, another movie that changed my life(I'm not fucking kidding, it was an experience by the time I saw it).
I really hope that the new Star Wars movie is good. Hell, in a way, if it's not going to be good, I hope it fails spectacularly in a way that we'll be talking about it for a long time. I just don't want the movie to be average, something that I think is very likely to happen. I mean, the first Star Trek movie by JJ was pretty good...but no one really talks about it anymore. At least Into Darkness is kind of remembered for trying to be better than the Wrath of Khan, but that's about it.
Nothing about the trailers have really meant anything to me other than "Hey! Remember when the original movies were so good? We agree with you." I feel like for the movie to actually be something, it has to do something a bit weird, a bit different. Think of KOTOR II. A game that still has fans wanting to know what the hell was happening behind that game. But, what we do have is something interesting, something that people are still talking about even if the game was almost good(it's not a bad game[at least, as far as story goes, I guess gameplay is debatable{but, for what it's worth, I like it for its gameplay too}]).
Say what you want about the prequels, at least they were trying to do something interesting.
Could that be where Star Wars is heading? I guess time will tell.
But, yeah, I have to agree, LOTR was basically my defining moment as much as Star Wars was to other people. Actually, both series pretty much were. But I can remember a time before knowing LOTR, but I don't think I'll ever remember a time before knowing Star Wars. But, fuck me, at that age, even the prequel movies were good to me, and, if nothing else, I think that means at least something. But LOTR was sort of where it was at, with it's strong opener and strong finisher. And then I got to grow up to see the sort of mad genius behind Peter Jackson after wards after seeing Dead Alive, another movie that changed my life(I'm not fucking kidding, it was an experience by the time I saw it).
I really hope that the new Star Wars movie is good. Hell, in a way, if it's not going to be good, I hope it fails spectacularly in a way that we'll be talking about it for a long time. I just don't want the movie to be average, something that I think is very likely to happen. I mean, the first Star Trek movie by JJ was pretty good...but no one really talks about it anymore. At least Into Darkness is kind of remembered for trying to be better than the Wrath of Khan, but that's about it.
Nothing about the trailers have really meant anything to me other than "Hey! Remember when the original movies were so good? We agree with you." I feel like for the movie to actually be something, it has to do something a bit weird, a bit different. Think of KOTOR II. A game that still has fans wanting to know what the hell was happening behind that game. But, what we do have is something interesting, something that people are still talking about even if the game was almost good(it's not a bad game[at least, as far as story goes, I guess gameplay is debatable{but, for what it's worth, I like it for its gameplay too}]).
Say what you want about the prequels, at least they were trying to do something interesting.
There's really no way of telling which stories will "make it." While I think Harry Potter is much more complex then Star Wars, for instance, both Star Wars and Lord of the Rings had a much larger impact on society. Lord of the Rings basically invented modern fantasy, reignited public interest in the genre, and made it socially and academically respectable, all at the same time. And it did this well before Star Wars. Star Wars reinvented the modern action blockbuster, while ushering in new technical achievements in the medium, changing how films were made. It was a simple but compelling narrative that changed how films are made and perceived.thaluikhain said:
While Harry Potter was a massive cultural phenomenon, I don't see any real changes as a result of it. Children's fantasy was already wildly popular, and I don't think it ushered in any changes. It may continue on as a wonderful children's classic, however. The real question is how future generations will respond to it. I grew up with the characters, and loved it. But future generations may just see it as a dusty old book. Only time will tell.
Though, having your own theme park can't hurt : /
Not sure what the OP's point is bar liking LOtR more, but okay, I'll play.
-Star Wars: I saw the original trilogy in cinemas in the 1990s, and the prequel trilogy later. I've recently rewatched episodes I-VI back to back as a leadup for The Force Awakens. And having seen the latest trailer, nostalgia's won me over to looking forward to the film, though I'm skeptical of how Disney will handle it. We're already at the point where films are being planned years in advance (e.g. Rogue One) regardless of how well Ep. VII actually does. Like another line of films I generally dislike...
What's weird is that despite having that nostalgia, Star Wars isn't all that nostalgic in itself - if anything, rewatching the episodes, I got more out of them by themselves as an adult than I did as a child. I like Star Wars, but never to the extent that most others do. Granted, I'm an oddity in that I like the prequels overall, and cite Empire as my least favorite of the OT, but, yeah. On the flipside, one can't deny Star Wars's influence, in terms of movie production, special effects, and how ingrained it's become in pop culture. Even before the sequel trilogy was released, you'd have little trouble finding Star Wars-related materials. Numerous filmmakers have cited Star Wars as an inspiration. Not that Star Wars was without its own inspirations (e.g. Flash Gordon), not was it the first big budget sci-fi film (see 2001 or Forbidden Planet for instance), but, well, you get the idea.
And, to top it off, a personal ranking:
6) Attack of the Clones
5) The Phantom Menace
4) The Empire Strikes Back
3) Revenge of the Sith
2) Return of the Jedi
1) A New Hope
Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit: I saw Lord of the Rings when it came out when I was in Auckland, at the age of 12. At that point in time, I'd tried (and failed) reading the books, and seen some of Bashki's version (and not liked it either). I actually liked the Hobbit novel (actually, my first introduction to the Hobbit was a manaquin stageplay which I still remember to this day), but the Lord of the Rings? Nup. I only went in because the rest of my family was seeing it. Walking back out...that's when everything changed.
Yes, I loved the film. I love the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and they stand as my personal favorite films of all time. Purchased games, got into the Games Workshop tabletop game, salviated for the next two films (loved and saw both of them), and between films 2 and 3, read the book trilogy (mixed feelings, but as an adult, I can appreciate the books more). The Lord of the Rings films, to me, were what I think the original Star Wars trilogy was to many people back in the 70s/80s. Something they'd never seen before, at least not on that scale. Lord of the Rings, to me, is far above Star Wars in terms of what it means to me personally.
And yet, I have to admit, I don't think the films have had the same level of impact as Star Wars. I think some of that is due to limited merchandising - it's far easier to find children's Star Wars material than Lord of the Rings material for instance. I've never heard anyone cite the Jackson films as an inspiration. Star Wars spawned imitators and (re)introduced sci-to the mainstream, whereas I don't remember any fantasy film boom that followed Lord of the Rings. We had fantasy films, true (Chronicles of Narnia, Eragon), but nothing on the same scale. Fantasy films never became what comic book movies are now. And while Lord of the Rings remains a cultural touchstone in New Zealand (living in Australia, I visit NZ about once a year), Star Wars is global. Lord of the Rings may have put Weta on the map, but Star Wars outright spawned ILM.
To be honest, Lord of the Rings has more cultural significance in its book form than film form I think - a lot of fantasy to this day can trace inspiration to LotR. Lord of the Rings more or less defined Western fantasy. The books, I think, are the actual rivals of Star Wars in terms of what they did to popular culture. While I actually enjoy the films more than the books overall, the films nonetheless owe their existence to the books, where Star Wars, influences aside, was still its own beast.
So, yes. Love the films. Heck, I still enjoy the Hobbit films - they never reach the same heights, but I still consider them to be good, enjoyable films, and I'm glad they were made. But as far as cultural impact goes, keeping this argument to the films, I'd have to give the prize to LotR. And as a final, probably less controversial ranking:
6) Battle of the Five Armies
5) An Unexpected Journey
4) The Desolation of Smaug
3) The Two Towers
2) The Return of the King
1) The Fellowship of the Ring
And now I need a break.
Might wax lyrical on Harry Potter later.
-Star Wars: I saw the original trilogy in cinemas in the 1990s, and the prequel trilogy later. I've recently rewatched episodes I-VI back to back as a leadup for The Force Awakens. And having seen the latest trailer, nostalgia's won me over to looking forward to the film, though I'm skeptical of how Disney will handle it. We're already at the point where films are being planned years in advance (e.g. Rogue One) regardless of how well Ep. VII actually does. Like another line of films I generally dislike...
What's weird is that despite having that nostalgia, Star Wars isn't all that nostalgic in itself - if anything, rewatching the episodes, I got more out of them by themselves as an adult than I did as a child. I like Star Wars, but never to the extent that most others do. Granted, I'm an oddity in that I like the prequels overall, and cite Empire as my least favorite of the OT, but, yeah. On the flipside, one can't deny Star Wars's influence, in terms of movie production, special effects, and how ingrained it's become in pop culture. Even before the sequel trilogy was released, you'd have little trouble finding Star Wars-related materials. Numerous filmmakers have cited Star Wars as an inspiration. Not that Star Wars was without its own inspirations (e.g. Flash Gordon), not was it the first big budget sci-fi film (see 2001 or Forbidden Planet for instance), but, well, you get the idea.
And, to top it off, a personal ranking:
6) Attack of the Clones
5) The Phantom Menace
4) The Empire Strikes Back
3) Revenge of the Sith
2) Return of the Jedi
1) A New Hope
Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit: I saw Lord of the Rings when it came out when I was in Auckland, at the age of 12. At that point in time, I'd tried (and failed) reading the books, and seen some of Bashki's version (and not liked it either). I actually liked the Hobbit novel (actually, my first introduction to the Hobbit was a manaquin stageplay which I still remember to this day), but the Lord of the Rings? Nup. I only went in because the rest of my family was seeing it. Walking back out...that's when everything changed.
Yes, I loved the film. I love the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and they stand as my personal favorite films of all time. Purchased games, got into the Games Workshop tabletop game, salviated for the next two films (loved and saw both of them), and between films 2 and 3, read the book trilogy (mixed feelings, but as an adult, I can appreciate the books more). The Lord of the Rings films, to me, were what I think the original Star Wars trilogy was to many people back in the 70s/80s. Something they'd never seen before, at least not on that scale. Lord of the Rings, to me, is far above Star Wars in terms of what it means to me personally.
And yet, I have to admit, I don't think the films have had the same level of impact as Star Wars. I think some of that is due to limited merchandising - it's far easier to find children's Star Wars material than Lord of the Rings material for instance. I've never heard anyone cite the Jackson films as an inspiration. Star Wars spawned imitators and (re)introduced sci-to the mainstream, whereas I don't remember any fantasy film boom that followed Lord of the Rings. We had fantasy films, true (Chronicles of Narnia, Eragon), but nothing on the same scale. Fantasy films never became what comic book movies are now. And while Lord of the Rings remains a cultural touchstone in New Zealand (living in Australia, I visit NZ about once a year), Star Wars is global. Lord of the Rings may have put Weta on the map, but Star Wars outright spawned ILM.
To be honest, Lord of the Rings has more cultural significance in its book form than film form I think - a lot of fantasy to this day can trace inspiration to LotR. Lord of the Rings more or less defined Western fantasy. The books, I think, are the actual rivals of Star Wars in terms of what they did to popular culture. While I actually enjoy the films more than the books overall, the films nonetheless owe their existence to the books, where Star Wars, influences aside, was still its own beast.
So, yes. Love the films. Heck, I still enjoy the Hobbit films - they never reach the same heights, but I still consider them to be good, enjoyable films, and I'm glad they were made. But as far as cultural impact goes, keeping this argument to the films, I'd have to give the prize to LotR. And as a final, probably less controversial ranking:
6) Battle of the Five Armies
5) An Unexpected Journey
4) The Desolation of Smaug
3) The Two Towers
2) The Return of the King
1) The Fellowship of the Ring
And now I need a break.
Might wax lyrical on Harry Potter later.
If Lord of the Rings is your Star Wars, then fucking Peanuts is my Star Wars... I mean, they were both created by people who have been dead for some time now, so any movie adaption based on their work has to, at least, be worth be a good dedication to their legacy in general, excluding "minor" changes that come from adapting in general...
Other than that...
Also, off-topic, I still loved Alien 5 from Neill Blomkamp, even if it was just an Aliens retread to its core...
Other than that...
The Ring Unleash was okay mechanically, but the sequel almost ruined it story-wise... The first The Ring Wars, which was a mini-series, was great in its simplicity and in-between storytelling unlike the 5-seasons and a Netflix-season of The Ring Wars, which was mostly great when it, ironically, focused on the group of named Orcs and that's not including how it's overall quality was constantly trying to get better every season... Still, by the time that it became something worth watching in its own right instead of constantly being compared to the now non-canon mini-series version at large, it gets "cancelled" and, while the Netflix season ties up those loose ends from the previous season, the team is commissioned to make Middle Earth Rebels, which not only makes full-on connections to previously "cancelled" The Ring Wars series, but also sets up its own pending tie-in to the very first Lord of the Rings movie directed by Peter Jackson...NLS said:
Also, off-topic, I still loved Alien 5 from Neill Blomkamp, even if it was just an Aliens retread to its core...
Strange, I was having similar thoughts earlier today at work seemingly out of the blue...a tremor in the Force, perhaps?
I was in high school when the LotR trilogy hit theaters. I actually remember being a little disappointed with the first one (mainly due to the changes from the book), but when I saw The Two Towers I was sold. When I look back on the trilogy as a whole I have very little to complain about, as I now see what Jackson was going for. Indeed, I'd venture that many of the changes in the film adaptations were actually for the better (though it still doesn't stop me from cringing whenever I hear Faramir say "the Ring will go to Gondor") Even back then I had a feeling this was the Star Wars of my generation in terms of cinematic and cultural impact, and I still stand by that assertion.
Funnily enough, my baby boomer father is a bigger LotR fan than I am, so he got more out of it than me.
I was in high school when the LotR trilogy hit theaters. I actually remember being a little disappointed with the first one (mainly due to the changes from the book), but when I saw The Two Towers I was sold. When I look back on the trilogy as a whole I have very little to complain about, as I now see what Jackson was going for. Indeed, I'd venture that many of the changes in the film adaptations were actually for the better (though it still doesn't stop me from cringing whenever I hear Faramir say "the Ring will go to Gondor") Even back then I had a feeling this was the Star Wars of my generation in terms of cinematic and cultural impact, and I still stand by that assertion.
Funnily enough, my baby boomer father is a bigger LotR fan than I am, so he got more out of it than me.
Interesting thing about that is that they're both basically the same story. Both of them are very prototypical Hero with a Thousand Faces type stories of a nobody from the ass-end of nowhere being called into a larger conflict against a massive evil empire by a wise, old magical sage. Along the way he's surrounded by royalty and rogues, gains new powers through his experiences, faces a moment of seeming defeat, faces the temptation to join the evil side, and eventually triumphs.Kolby Jack said:
They both handle things in slightly different ways and are certainly different genres, but they're both basically telling the same story archetype, and it's an archetype that has been around throughout human history for a reason. This particular type of story speaks to something ancient, and distinctly human in us, and because of that it's been reused many, many times across a lot of different cultures.
So while you and and those middle-aged folk you mentioned are fans of different movies, you're both actually connecting through the same story both those movies were trying to tell, and that's a really cool thing.
Mysteries of the what now? I've never heard of it. >_>Fox12 said:
Don't take that as me dismissing it's significance, I just really haven't ever heard of it before. You say it's a cultural phenomenon? Interesting...
That's the point, haha.Kolby Jack said:
Mysteries of Udolpho. I've been learning about it in class. It was a gothic novel published in the 1700's. It was a huge success at the time, but now no one remembers it. Meanwhile, Jane Austen, who was writing at the same time and made almost no money, is still famous. Fame is just weird that way.
I wouldn't worry about it, the book isn't very good, and you're not missing very much. I didn't even bother finishing it for class. I'm just saying that the stuff that's a big deal now may not even be famous in 200 years : P
I don't know, I guess it depends on how much of a cultural impact something has. Mysteries of Udolpho may have been a hit series in its time, but (knowing nothing about the book itself) I doubt it had as much of a spark as some of the pop culture legends known throughout the world. Shakespeare, Sherlock Holmes, Superman, Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars are known the world over for a lot of reasons. It's hard to pin down what makes something stand the test of time. Harry Potter sticks out in people's minds, but Harry Potter was a very recent phenomenon. If I had to guess, I'd say THAT would be the next Mysteries of Udolpho, forgotten in a century or two. Star Wars? I just can't picture it fading away, even if it becomes archaic.Fox12 said:
That said, pop culture has gone through a huge upheaval in the information age, and I don't think anyone can really say what's going to happen down the road. You could point out millions of examples of pop culture rapidly changing over the last 20 years and tell me it'll continue that way forever and I'd believe you. Or, you can point that out as a sign we're about to enter a period of massive cultural stagnation due to over-saturation, and I'd believe you too. It's too hard to say where our pop culture will end up in even just a few decades.
Well, Kolby Jack, Kevin Smith isn't wrong.LegendaryGamer0 said:
I saw Star Wars as a kid. It's practically encoded in my DNA. I recently re-watched all six movies of the saga. It doesn't hold up as well as I remembered. Yet, I still liked revisiting those movies. Also, looking forward to The Force Awakens.
My parents had The Lord of the Rings books. I tried to read the first one, but my eyes glazed over from boredom. I even jumped ahead in the book to see if gets better later on. I couldn't find it. So, I put the book away for another book I could finish by the end of the year.
I saw the first and third LOTR movies in theaters. I saw the second movie on video. Did the first movie really needed 3 hours to introduce the characters and the story? At least, the second movie introduced an interesting character (Gollum) and had a storyline that was concluded within the movie. The third movie is easily the worst. It had every cheap, cliché conclusions in the history of mankind in that movie. Also, about 5 million endings to the movie. WTF!!! Worse yet, it won the Oscar for Best Picture.
You can have Lord of the Rings and any other prequels or sequels or anything else that they will produce. There is only one TRUE trilogy...The Matrix.
Really? We're the same age and I grew up with the original trilogy. I must have watched it a few hundred times before the prequels were released. Star Wars and Star Trek were the most important pieces of entertainment during that part of my childhood.Kolby Jack said:
Funny you should mention that. I recall trying to read the first LOTR book too back as a teenager, and I never could get out of Hobbiton before I got bored and put the book down. After about 4 attempts I'd basically given up...until I was in college and tripping on acid. I found myself alone in my room, early in the morning, after being dosed to the gills all night on some white blotter. I had to do something to keep my mind occupied, so I started reading that book. In a tripping state of mind, I was FINALLY able to get through Hobbiton and go out to the rest of the book. I enjoyed the series, but I never read it again. But I'm sort of biased, I've always preferred scifi to fantasy anyway, so LOTR was always going to be a second place to stuff like Star Wars and Trek.KissingSunlight said: