Main aim was to make Splinter Cell Conviction easier

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Mr. Drood

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tellmeimaninja said:
It's still incredibly fun for me as long as I set it to realistic and I don't use guns.
That's good to hear, and if I actually get the game (there's also Ubisoft's stupid DRM to stop me from doing that) that is probably what I will do. But I always feel a bit cheated when the player has to cripple himself just to make the game challenging. In the previous parts, the game was still challenging even if you chose to rambo through, or to use guns, which doesn't seem to be the case here.

Edit: Loremazd - I never claimed they were going to remove any moves. I said that they made it easier and linked to an interview where one of the devs said that they did try to make it a lot easier, and complained that this would take away much of the game's suspense, thrill and challenge.
 

The DSM

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I hate the Conviction demo and I think its going to be the same for the full video.

Im sure the guards have MGS syndrome, you can just run up to them and hit them in the back.

Also I had to fumble with the controls alot and its just felt "meh"
 

DanielPowell33

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I like the difficulty in the past Splinter Cell games, you can't just gun everyone down if you want to do good, like you seem to be able to do in Conviction.

I'm kinda worried about this game, it seems to be taking away some of what made the Splinter Cell series great, and filling it in with a Bourne movie/Uncharted 2 offspring.

I'll be renting it first.
 

WestMountain

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It should have stayed as it were meant to be from the start, about Sam Fisher looking like a hobo and throw tables in the face of enemies and then hiding in big crowds, now its just a generic shooter with very little stealth moments
 

OptimalPrime

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Feb 27, 2010
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hard, if you are seven. The hardest ones are the levels where you cant kill anyone and even those arent that hard.
 

Mr. Drood

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WestMountain said:
It should have stayed as it were meant to be from the start, about Sam Fisher looking like a hobo and throw tables in the face of enemies and then hiding in big crowds, now its just a generic shooter with very little stealth moments
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but actually I thought that the "hobo table-throwing crowd-hiding" thing looked even worse than the current build.
 

AMMO Kid

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I personally made hard difficulty walkthroughs (100%)for all 4 games and posted them on youtube (don't suspend me moderators I'm not advertising here) and I would sneak around the guards and not knock a single guard or civilian out. So the old ones weren't even a challenge for me after a while, and I can beat the SC: Conviction demo in 3:30 from start to finish without being spotted and without using "mark and execute" excessively (I kill like 11 with melee and 12 with Mark and Execute). It's just tooooooo eazi!
 

Delusibeta

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I can't help but feel that Ubisoft is deliberately sabotaging this game. First the DRM, now this which will probably piss off the Splinter Cell hardcore.
 

AMMO Kid

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WestMountain said:
It should have stayed as it were meant to be from the start, about Sam Fisher looking like a hobo and throw tables in the face of enemies and then hiding in big crowds, now its just a generic shooter with very little stealth moments
No offense, but in my opinion that game looked horrible, and in this game I still have beat the demo without getting spotted and without killing anyone(with a substantial use of gadgets though) so it's not a mindless killing game, it's just how you choose to play. Mark and Execute works on lights too you know, not just guards
 

Kryzantine

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Couple of things; first, mark and execute needs to actually be unlocked by stealth kills, it's not as if they removed the element completely. If you tried to blast your way through a level, you would still need to manually aim. Secondly, I personally hated the fact they gave you a powerful arsenal and didn't let you use it in prior games. Gadgets don't particularly appeal to me. The whole point of Conviction is that Sam Fisher is a beast gone wild, and you aren't restricted to being stealthy anymore, although it will prove to be more advantageous in certain situations. Example, in the demo, you hit this one section after you go down the elevator shaft, and on my first run, I immediately shot at 4 guys, which alerted several more, putting me in a tough firefight. On my second run, I decided to go sneaky, silently killed a guard, marked 2 of them and had just one guy all to myself without alerting the base and without taking damage.

Let me explain why Ubisoft chose to go with Mark and Execute. In prior Splinter Cell games, if you had two guards conversing with each other and you tried to take them out with your weapon, you may get the first guy alright, but the second one will respond long before you can train your sights on them. Your only option would be to wait for them to split up or sneak around them. Mark and Execute obviously simplifies this situation, so as long as you have Mark and Executes *hint hint, you don't have infinite M&Es*, you can take them down rather easily. The other primary adaptation to this is that Ubisoft can finally put 5 or 6 guys in the same room and have it considered average difficulty, where in most other Splinter Cell games, unless the room was really large, it would be considered a nightmare for players. Truth be told, how many bad guys have a straight, linear path to them consisting of single guard patrols? Conviction aims to get the army effect down pat; you're facing an actual organization with lots of members, something the games beforehand failed to grasp.

Besides this, I still don't see how people can be complaining once you learn it is harder to get Mark and Executes on harder difficulties, and players will learn to save them for crucial situations. I also presume stealth kills will be factored in better to the point upgrade system Ubisoft has with SC:C. Yes yes, doing stuff in missions earns you points that you can use to upgrade your equipment, they have a basic progression system. An idea they no doubt took from Alpha Protocol.

So to everyone who claims the series is going away from stealth, realize this; Splinter Cell was never intended to be a pure stealth game. They started out with one and ever since then, they've been trying to get the series back to the genre it was always intended to be, which was action-stealth. The whole idea of the action stealth genre is simple: in an action-stealth game, players can either use pure stealth, pure action or most commonly, a combination of the two to progress in the level. Every game in the Splinter Cell series has been moving towards the middle, Conviction just being the largest step. That said, about 85% of the game should be able to be completed without having to resort to violence. If you're still not convinced, think of it this way; getting through the new challenges without using the new tools the game gives you to complete these challenges is definitely satisfying.
 

AMMO Kid

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HG131 said:
Mr. Drood said:
AverageJoe said:
I thought the difficulty in Chaos Theory and Double Agent was just about right for the series... Presenting some areas that are tough but still keeping it accessible in general. I hope the new one isn't too dumbed-down; I must admit from what I've seen so far its looking good in some ways and completely dumbed down in others.
I agree; I really like that they're actually giving it a story this time and developing the characters a bit further, but then I see things like "mark and execute" where you mark a few enemies, and then Sam leans out of cover and shoots them automatically for you.

Oh and you can move from cover to cover with the single push of a button; Sam then also does that for you.
Well, the move from cover to cover is a good thing, even if it was stolen from Gears of War.

EDIT: Just don't use Mark And Execute.
just from playing the demo I can tell this game feel as fast paced as a good action movie
 

Ironic Pirate

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I hated the whole terrorist gimmick in the first game. My kind of stealth is with no stupid restrictions (failing if spotted, no killing, time limits, etc) and maybe the chance to fight your way out of a jam.

Alternate Personality: I just like kniving people. SCCHIINK!
 

Michael Dagastino

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Feb 22, 2010
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They did the same thing with Final Fantasy 13. You only control 1 character during the fights, and after every fight you automatically get full health. And it only starts to get challenging at the ch9 boss and after, and that is only some of the monsters. I respect trying to get a bigger fan base, but they dummed it down way too much. I enjoyed working my ass off in all the older games to just try to drag myself to the end of each challenge/boss. It was frusterating, but winning gave a sense of accomplishment instead of a new way to waste time between cutscenes
 

Ironic Pirate

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I hated the whole terrorist gimmick in the first game. My kind of stealth is with no stupid restrictions (failing if spotted, no killing, time limits, etc) and maybe the chance to fight your way out of a jam.

Alternate Personality: I just like kniving people. SCCHIINK!
 

Mr. Drood

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Kryzantine said:
Couple of things; first, mark and execute needs to actually be unlocked by stealth kills, it's not as if they removed the element completely. If you tried to blast your way through a level, you would still need to manually aim. Secondly, I personally hated the fact they gave you a powerful arsenal and didn't let you use it in prior games. Gadgets don't particularly appeal to me. The whole point of Conviction is that Sam Fisher is a beast gone wild, and you aren't restricted to being stealthy anymore, although it will prove to be more advantageous in certain situations.
First of all, thanks for your detailed and thought out reply.
"Needs to be unlocked by stealth kills" - you mean, the thing you do all the time in Splinter Cell? Also, it seems pretty self sufficient, ie. you take out 2/3 guys with mark and execute, then the last guy in the room is an easy stealth kill. Also, the fact that the game aims for you isn't really made much better by the fact that it doesn't always aim for you. Thats just what stops it from being a movie.

Also, "they gave you a powerful arsenal and didn't let you use it in prior games"? I don't really know what you're talking about. The only times when you weren't allowed to use everything was in the first two parts, where yes, there were quite a lot of restrictions like don't kill anyone etc. But those were mainly to emphasize the stealth gameplay in a time where AI simply wasn't good enough to contend with players that were allowed to just kill everyone. In Chaos Theory, which, in my opinion, represents the pinnacle of the series, you got a huge arsenal and were allowed to use every single part of it. And, (here comes the important part) having full head-on battles with groups of opponents was actually harder than the stealth.

And I guess that's my real concern for Conviction. Yes, I've picked out mark and execute and automatically moving to cover as especially glaring examples, but it just seems like the whole stealth part of the game is just purely optional, because, like in Assassins Creed, you can take on waves and waves of guards anyway. Sure, it emphasizes Sam's badassery, but I would have thought that was already made more than clear by all the crazy stuff he could do in previous games, without giving him aimbot and wall-hack. (the gadget where you see everything black and white, and see enemies through walls). I don't know, it just seems like they turned it into a generic "cover based shooter" with stealth that you can randomly choose to do.
HG131 said:
Well, the move from cover to cover is a good thing, even if it was stolen from Gears of War.

EDIT: Just don't use Mark And Execute.
Um. I don't really know what to reply to this, as we clearly have different concepts of what makes a good game but... I would say that it is never a good thing when you can just have the game play itself for you by just pressing where you want to move.
 

Bob_F_It

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I think the words he had in the back of his mind were "more accessable". There are brilliant games that are bollocks hard with said difficulty being a contributing factor, but not so many people will play it simply because it's bollocks hard.