Major Changes In Youtube Involving Let's Players

[Uhura]

Sad news. My favorite LP group makes their living from the LP videos they produce and I hope they are able to find other (LP related) sources of income if they are unable to monetize their youtube videos.

 

[Tom_green_day]

I suppose this is the opposite opinion to most people, but when I heard this I said 'finally?'
I don't see why people deserve to make so much money playing games. It requires little talent or skill, and lots of them are hugely boring to watch. It seems that whoever whines and complains the most (Total Halibut, that dude who pretends to be metal etc) gets most views. I think it's fine for people to do it if they're focusing on comedy (Jontron, ODS) but videos of games are no use to society).

 

[kenu12345]

I don't understand why these companies even care if someone is making money with videos of their games. It's not like they're taking away their profit. It's just corporate douchebaggery.

Agreed,it's like they use copy-right claims to intentionally be dicks when those companies have little to gain from doing so.

How would you feel if you spent a couple years of your life writing a novel, then some dick on Youtube reads the entire thing verbatim, makes fun of it, then makes money off of it.

Now some people that may have been interested won't buy your book because they know what happens, and they think it (and you) are stupid because some dick on Youtube said it and his opinions must be correct.

That's the logic there. It's not 100% correct, but it's still pretty plausible to me. Sure, some people may see the game and say "Sure, I want to try that," but most people won't, especially for story based games. I watched a LP of the story of Starcraft: Heart of the Swarm because I wanted to know what happened. Didn't buy the game, but don't feel the need to anymore. Same thing with The Last of Us (though I don't have a PS3 so...). No need to buy them.

I and people like me are the reason why game companies are doing this, and I can totally sympathize with them.

EDIT: Just want to add, this goes double for folks like Telltale, where the gameplay isn't the point, it's the story. If you watch an exhaustive LP of The Walking Dead (where they show all routes), there's literally no point to playing the game.

You are thinking of dramatic readings. It happens. Everyone is free to voice their opinions on things. I wouldn't get mad cause someone doesn't like something of mine and voices their opinion. I would actually deal with it and learn from it like various content providers on this very site have done

 

[LittleWings]

I dunno, it seems to me that YouTube is just doing what the developers have asked for with regards to their content- That people don't make money from videos that contain material owned by the developers. Which is fair enough, as far as I'm concerned...

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's basically what I've taken from this

 

[Mid Boss]

Stop sitting bitching about how much money these let's play people are making

The only person in this conversation who's bitching and raging is you over someone who has a different opinion in a regular discussion.

There are many indie companies that are fine with monetized let's plays so you have no excuse what so ever.

Put your money where your mouth is. Come on. Do it.

There's that fuzzy logic thing again, sort it out.

There are a million reasons as to why I and many others are not making LPs. It's a pretty immature argument and proposition.

I.... I don't see a link to your youtube channel anywhere... Did you forget to put it up? I can't subscribe if you don't put a link up man.

I'll sweeten the deal! My blog has almost 4000 watchers on tumblr. You make your let's play channel and I'll plug you on it. Should get you a couple dozen watchers! More than most people EVER get. This is a great opportunity for you.

Come on.

It doesn't get. Any better. Than this.

 

[Racecarlock]

I don't understand why these companies even care if someone is making money with videos of their games. It's not like they're taking away their profit. It's just corporate douchebaggery.

Agreed,it's like they use copy-right claims to intentionally be dicks when those companies have little to gain from doing so.

How would you feel if you spent a couple years of your life writing a novel, then some dick on Youtube reads the entire thing verbatim, makes fun of it, then makes money off of it.

Now some people that may have been interested won't buy your book because they know what happens, and they think it (and you) are stupid because some dick on Youtube said it and his opinions must be correct.

That's the logic there. It's not 100% correct, but it's still pretty plausible to me. Sure, some people may see the game and say "Sure, I want to try that," but most people won't, especially for story based games. I watched a LP of the story of Starcraft: Heart of the Swarm because I wanted to know what happened. Didn't buy the game, but don't feel the need to anymore. Same thing with The Last of Us (though I don't have a PS3 so...). No need to buy them.

I and people like me are the reason why game companies are doing this, and I can totally sympathize with them.

EDIT: Just want to add, this goes double for folks like Telltale, where the gameplay isn't the point, it's the story. If you watch an exhaustive LP of The Walking Dead (where they show all routes), there's literally no point to playing the game.

Except copy right laws are freaking abused by near everyone including game companies.Also sympathy for multi million dollar companies....... really?This isn't hurting them at all and in fact LPs are essentially free advertising.

Ignoring everything I say and restating your own proposition is no way to have a conversation.

That said, you obviously don't know the people who make these games. It's really easy to say "ZOMG BIG CORPORATIONS GRUBBING MONEY" and forget that there's a lot of good individual people that work there and do their jobs brilliantly. I knew a few people at Gearbox and Timegate because I live in Texas where they run things. They're awesome people. In the immediate future, their bonuses are contingent on how well their games do, in the long term, their jobs are.

So don't fucking tell me that sales don't matter and that the only people affected are faceless corporations, because it only betrays your utter ignorance to the truth.

The cold hard truth is those people are just cogs in the machine that is a corporation and most corporations only want one thing:Money.They don't give a damn what you and I think of them so having sympathy for a corporation is pointless.Also I'm ignorant because I know how corporations like to put the screws on people if they so much as smell a money making opportunity?Lol whatever you say.Can you tell how much money these "poor" companies are losing because of Let's Players?

You are either a 13-16 year old guy who has wacko far left parents or have been playing way too much Shadowrun (or both).

Corporations are legal entities that are pretty much required to grow beyond a certain point for any company. They give unprecedented access to capital to do great things, in return for being responsible to their shareholders. If all corporations ceased to exist tomorrow and were banned, our country would have 0 economy. Themis Media Corporation owns The Escapist, the website you're posting on. The individuals here, contributors, mods, editors, video content producers, etc. all work their asses off for a paycheck cut by a corporation, just like 90% of the working world.

In your glorious struggle to bring down "the man", all you're doing is hurting individual people. The fallacious argument implied in the "cogs in a machine" statement is that those individuals would be better off not working for a corporation, when the reverse is probably true. Less consistency in pay, less resources, and more individual responsibility would crush the vast majority of people who tried to strike out on their own. Those that succeed, form their own corporations, because that's how it works.

If you want to live in some sort of anarcho-communist paradise where everyone just decides to work for free for everyone else's benefit out of sheer altruism, keep dreaming.

You and I probably would agree on the idea that copyright law, especially concerning the internet, is pretty fucked up at present. It's radically outdated and needs to be pushed more towards creative commons and less towards the archaic ideas in the DMCA, but it still needs to exist. People that make great things deserve to make money off of those things, it's a fundamental principle of capitalism. In the case of let's plays, the vast majority of companies are allowing people to use their work for free so long as they don't make money off of something that's not theirs without permission. That's much more fair than what the black letter law provides for.

First off I'm 21 about to turn 22 in two weeks,second this isn't the first time corporations tried to strong arm the internet or have you forgotten about things like SOPA?But let's leave the political crap out of this since Let Players are being targeted because the corporate suits of the game industry want to have their cake and eat it too,they want people to advertise their games but they also want it to be without cost.

Now answer my question:How are Let's Players effecting these "poor" game companies who need every cent to get by despite the fact they are making millions every year?

Last response because it's becoming apparently obvious that discussing such a weighty topic in this forum is not providing discourse that's worth my time.

1) Your question just shows you're still missing the point. It's not a question of how damaging it is, but that the very concept of Let's Plays is a clear violation of copyright law as it is on the books right now. Actual damages are not a required element of a copyright claim, and injunctions or nominal damages can result. Not only that, but dilution is one of the reasons why a trademark (and I believe a copyright, although IP is next year) can be nullified (and it's why you don't see any Escalator brand moving staircases anymore). Point being, if companies don't defend their copyrights, they can lose them.

In the instant case, all we're really dealing with is whether or not companies should stop someone from violating their copyrights and whether it's worth it. There's a large difference between censoring a dancing baby video for playing one of your songs and shutting down what has become a lucrative cottage industry based on copyright infringement. The existence of such an industry could begin to undermine copyrights on games as a whole.*

2) You're asking a question you know the answer to: damages are impossible to estimate, as are benefits. There is no way to objectively research and find out exactly how many sales were lost or gained as a result of Let's Plays, simply because you have to evaluate people's intent on a topic they're inclined to lie about on surveys. Not to mention the hassle of tracking down millions of "anonymous" viewers on Youtube to survey them in the first place.

So on this matter we have to result to theory arguments, and my theory is this: there is no reason why you should be able to post an entire run through of a game, even as advertisement. Seeing a game run all the way through negates a huge part of the game: discovery. Seeing what happens when you do certain things is a huge part of the game, even a procedurally generated roguelike. Watching a person play it all the way through negates at least some aspect of discovery, which makes people less likely to play the game, especially in story driven games.

The argument that people use Let's Plays to evaluate titles holds some weight, but there is no reason why one needs to watch an entire playthrough to evaluate a game. Why do you need to see anything beyond the first level or two to evaluate the systems, graphic style, etc. of a game? It seems that on face, the arguments that it detracts from the experience enough to discourage sales seem to outweigh the possibility of gained sales given that there are so many other ways to advertise, including more limited Let's Plays.

*An analogy so people can understand: Let's Plays are to the gaming industry as the knockoffs are to the fashion industry. They're getting paid to make works that have no value without the works they are based on, and using only methods provided by that industry.

Oh good, that argument again. It MIGHT lose some indeterminate number of sales, so of course we need to squash it right away.

They just want people to advertise for them without those people getting paid. The companies themselves aren't even paying them to begin with, but that's just not enough. They want to get rid of used games too, so they really do want to play roulette with my fucking money and just buy shit blindly. Well, no dice. I need to know what I'm getting into. I'm not just going to buy any glitchy mess the industry puts out, and I know that CGI trailers are incredibly unreliable.

And god forbid anyone make any money for making reviews or let's plays, right? I mean, it costs the game companies essentially nothing as they don't pay out ad revenue. But no, that's not good enough. They MIGHT lose some sales from a let's play, therefore no money for anyone who does let's plays and you can copyright sue anyone who puts up criticism of your game that you don't like.

Life doesn't work like that. I can't just buy on blind faith. I can't just jump and hope there's a platform there that's painted to look like a fall. I need to know what I'm getting into and I think those that help me with that knowledge should get payed by someone.

 

[Kuilui]

Well most big channels such as Pewds and a ton of other even small lets play channels will probably become "Managed" instead of Affiliate accounts under whatever network they are apart of which will save them from the wrath of people trying to cut their heads off..for now anyway. It seems like in a year or two it wont really matter what legal protection you try to hide behind if your a lets player, its probably the end of the road for them, on youtube anyway.

 

[Kittyhawk]

This is Google getting a bit greedy. There's nothing wrong with Let's Play videos but they may want to avoid possible litigation. Devs and publishers this is the part where you should be getting behind your games and giving gamers some support.

I smell an exodus from Youtube coming on, soon. Vimeo and ustream seem like better options for games and would love the following.

 

[Simonism451]

To anyone who supports this I have to ask one questiono you really want corporations controlling the content you watch just because you feel the content providers are a little too successful?

They are not controlling the content I watch, they are controlling whether or not someone gets money for creating a video that hugely relies on using content created by someone else without the consent creator of that original content.

Edit: I don't actually support this, as I think that generally the exposure through LPs is going to increase, rather than decrease the number of sales and if I were a publisher I'd do my best to keep that free publicity running, even without my direct involvement. However I can understand the frustration from seeing some yahoo on the internet making money off of a piece of art that you have created without you profiting directly from it, the same way I'd felt pretty pissed off if somebody decided to start selling their fanfiction featuring my characters or their novelization of a movie I wrote.

 

[Vanbael]

1: What do you think of this sudden change happening next year?

I think it will be interesting, but I think it was coming. Ever since the incident with TotalBiscuit, I realized that companies will pull dick moves like this. And now youtube is giving them even more power to do that. But overall, at least I'll be able to filter through the garbage. But overall, not surprised.

2: Are you worried about your favorite Let's Player's future?

Anyone under Polaris (TotalBiscuit, JesseCox, WoWCrendor for example) will probably be safe as they are under a company that works with the actual developers.

3: Do You Think This should have happened a long time ago, and are proud of Youtube's Decision?

I think...meh. Somehow I think this on the list after microtransactions.

4: Anyone think that Video Game Crash is going to happen due to this being one of the factors?

If it does, good. We need to clean the garbage out of the market.

5: Which Let's Players do you think would be fine with this outcome? Which ones do you think would not be?

Again, people under an actual organization (Polaris, casters for eSports) will cleverly get past some. But until then, sales for those companies that say 'Nope, we want all teh dollaz' will be losing some content time on youtube. TFS, Cryotic, those freeform LPer's will be heavily affected.

6: Freestlye Final Thoughts - Your take on this with a good conclusion?

I think this will actually weed out those who do it for the money, and those who do it for the game. I want to see genuine content from people who love video games. For those who get phased out, I hope the best of luck for them. If I actually had time to make a quality LP, I would do it as a hobby. Maybe this purge will be good, and shut down those who put out half-assed content and get paid for it. And maybe it will cut out the mainstream bullshit that is basically the same. No more Call of Duty multiplayer videos, shit like that from people who lack life. But this also means good games like Wolf Among Us will be few in numbers (I don't give a fuck about Walking Dead). But however, LPer's that love those games should do this for the fun of it and for the love of it. Eventually, I want to see Pewdie sit down and play a game, no antics, no bullshit. Those personalities are more intriguing.

 

[Kittyhawk]

You make a good point. Youtube want to give more priority to other content on their tubes. Why else would you go after small amatuer gamers, who aren't making a fortune out of their love.? Perhaps it seems to them that we don't matter enough, while music videos about 'talking foxes' etc get a pass.

 

[Ipsen]

I wasn't aware that LPs made any money at all.
I enjoy watching them and find them useful, but it doesn't make any sense to get paid for making a LP.

Most don't, but the money that does come in is through ad revenue (do correct me if I'm wrong, please!)

...Which is a huge head-scratcher for me; why aren't publishers just halting funds to these ad companies if this is such an issue, rather than going to youtube to shut LP's down? I wouldn't exactly call this route simpler, but it has to come easier than hamstringing your actual user-base.

Oh right, there's virtually no penalty for restricting freedoms through EULA.

And it's funny too; with moves like this, essentially the copyright argument publishers put forth treats their products like movies; they'd have something if there wasn't an interactive element to the content.

 

[Simple Bluff]

I wasn't aware that LPs made any money at all.
I enjoy watching them and find them useful, but it doesn't make any sense to get paid for making a LP.

Most don't, but the money that does come in is through ad revenue (do correct me if I'm wrong, please!)

...Which is a huge head-scratcher for me; why aren't publishers just halting funds to these ad companies if this is such an issue, rather than going to youtube to shut LP's down?

They're not shutting anyone down. Well, Sega is but they've been doing that for a while regardless and pretty much everyone agrees they're idiots. Everyone else is only halting ad placements on the videos, which in turn means LP'ers will no longer get revenue for their videos.

Affiliates, however, like AngryJoe...

I don't mean to be pedantic, but this won't affect those such as Angry Joe - he's a reviewer, not an LPer. If it did target those guys, this would be a whole different story altogether.