What's the point of being invincible if you've pulled a scorched earth approach on anything you say?
Also, "incredible" would be a more accurate description.
Also, "incredible" would be a more accurate description.
Making Yourself Invincible
- Thread starter theboombody
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Strange ideas but I think I get how they would work.
Debates often devolve into discrediting a person so their ideas seem foolish even if they aren't. So by getting that part out of the way people can focus on the idea an not the person presenting it. I could say "I'm foolish and do the wrong thing but here is this idea or view point and the facts supporting it."
Maybe I'm wrong about how this method works but I think any tactic that separates the idea from yourself will give you an edge if someone tries to attack your credibility.
Debates often devolve into discrediting a person so their ideas seem foolish even if they aren't. So by getting that part out of the way people can focus on the idea an not the person presenting it. I could say "I'm foolish and do the wrong thing but here is this idea or view point and the facts supporting it."
Maybe I'm wrong about how this method works but I think any tactic that separates the idea from yourself will give you an edge if someone tries to attack your credibility.
There's a flaw in that technique. Your opponent can disprove you. You may claim to be illogical and unethical, but if your argument seems otherwise (logical and ethical) then your opponent can argue that your point is logical but incorrect (that is, it makes logical sense, but fails to take certain data into account) and ethical but impractical or irrelevant (ie, that the ethics are either misplaced or don't matter to the situation).theboombody said:
It might work for philosophy, since that is basically nothing but logic + ethics, but for anything else, it doesn't work so well.
+1 internet for DrMcNinja reference.FalloutJack said:
Given that this tactic won't actually get you anywhere, it's only useful when trying to drag someone down, so it's pretty situational. That said, if you can bribe a third party to do it for you then it certainly makes your life a lot easier.
I think you might be confusing self-importance with self-esteem. The former is important to keep in check for humility's sake, to lack the latter, however, requires one to belittle his/her own sense of self worth and believe yourself incompetent.theboombody said:
If we debate, and you say that you are always illogical, all I have to do to reply to you is say: "That's illogical".
How can you criticize someone after saying that your criticism holds no merit?
That's like bringing a gun to a knife fight, and then giving it to your opponent.
Also, this has nothing to do with what happened at the end of 8 mile. A rap battle is basically a jokes and ridiculing competition. If you're supposed to insult someone, and they start off their round by taking the edge off of all your jokes, you'll just look silly when you try them anyway.
How can you criticize someone after saying that your criticism holds no merit?
That's like bringing a gun to a knife fight, and then giving it to your opponent.
Also, this has nothing to do with what happened at the end of 8 mile. A rap battle is basically a jokes and ridiculing competition. If you're supposed to insult someone, and they start off their round by taking the edge off of all your jokes, you'll just look silly when you try them anyway.
Having self esteem is not antithetical to humility. I would argue people with great self esteem are more likely to also have a good sense of humility. Having a good internal sense of self worth does not lead one to try to artifically inflate their sense of importance to others. Why would they feel the need to? They're already good with who they are.theboombody said:
If these are the sort of tactics you're trying to apply in R&P, that's unfortunate, because it's not going to get you anywhere.
The way to win debates is to be illogical and unethical. When anyone tries to call you out on it, attack their character. You never admit that you are being illogical and/or unethical. Claim everything that you say is the irrefutable truth. Because you are getting it from sources like God. If you disagree with me, than you are against God. Why do you hate God so much?
People should stop being concerned about "winning" arguments. Instead they try to have open and honest conversations about the issues.
People should stop being concerned about "winning" arguments. Instead they try to have open and honest conversations about the issues.
Finally, someone gets what I'm saying. Rather than strain yourself to prove you are better than other people, admit your faults. Makes things a lot easier. So you lose an argument as a result. So what. Everyone seems to think proving themselves right is the end-all, be-all of creation. And that comes from both sides of the aisle.KissingSunlight said:
So while everyone else is trying their best to be Superman, I've contented myself with being Mister Mxyzptlk.
First, he might've been sarcastic. If not, then he's completely off-base too, because second...this doesn't make you Mister Mxyzptlk. This would make you the latest badly-designed robot master from Dr. Wily: PleaseHitMeGoodAndHardConstantlyMan. You explode a thousand times a second and cannot harm Megaman at all. It's an instant win for him and he somehow gains full-screen pyromancy as a new weapon. In short, point-blank, it will not work. You can't make it work. This is not a good idea.theboombody said:
I was taking what the OP said and correcting one point. Instead of claiming that you are being illogical and unethical, just do it & not say it. Which is what a lot of people do when they are trying to "win" an argument. The most common example of this is when someone claims your post is irrelevant because you made a grammatical error in your response.FalloutJack said:
I was sincere about the part of my post where people should have open & honest conversations about issues, and not be concerned by "winning".
Irrelevent due to grammar error? That's not just illogical and unethical, that's also too obvious. That would never work! Still, I said it the way I did because I wasn't actually sure and didn't wanna put actual words in your mouth. If you're going to be sneaky and underhanded, you have to be much much MUCH more subtle about it.KissingSunlight said:
The sad part is it does work. People who are trying to argue reasonably about an issue gets frustrated and give up. I use the term "Faux Rage" to describe people who get online and get outraged about something that shouldn't be controversial. When they get challenged on their point of view. They resort to all kinds of tactics to aggravate, provoke, and frustrate people who have other opinions.FalloutJack said:
Uhh, no. They win by default. If someone starts out a discussion with no intention of honoring the discussion, they are without point and value, ergo the one who is making any point whatsoever is in the right. You cannot win by losing. You are auto-forfeiting that joust we call conversation by pinning yourself to the opponent's spear. And when you're pinned, you're pinned. You don't get to be unpinned or right, even if the other person leaves the room. You still failed.KissingSunlight said:
When I was a kid, I was about ready to step into the crosswalk when I had the right-of-way to do so. My mom held me back in time before a car, who was running against the light, drove through the crosswalk. I asked my mom, "Why did you stop me from crossing the street? I was right to cross when I did. That driver was wrong." My mom replied, "What's so good about being right when you are being ran over by a car?"FalloutJack said:
The point is what's so good about being "right"? It's more important to have a civil, reasonable conversation about an issue. If you run into some jerk who is not interested in having a reasonable debate, then it's best to ignore them.
In the normal frame of things, people don't get run over and killed by crappy conversation. An interesting analogy, otherwise.KissingSunlight said: