Male fashion and how it has changed.

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Jamieson 90

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Ask pretty much anyone today and they'll tell you that blue is for boys and pink is for girls, with many becoming horrified at the mere mention that pink should be worn by boys, yet that hasn't always been the case as history shows us, nor has it for many items of clothing that are now exclusive to the female sex, but before we can get to the discussion value a brief history lesson is in order.

Depicted below is Louis XIV of France.


Notice those high heels he's wearing? Yes that was actually a thing and was a common item of clothing for men during the 1600's, but ask any woman and they'll tell you just how painful and unpractical high heels are, with many denouncing the dreaded cobbled street, or any surface that isn't flat and even, and well that's because the high heel wasn't designed and isn't meant to be walked in, they were actually first used by Persian cavalry hence they're meant to be used whilst horse riding.

Now getting back to the issue of colour, things were once not so set in stone. Here below is "Pink boy" by artist Gainsborough.



From my research I've discovered that for a long time blue had a heavy association with the Virgin Mary as she was very often depicted in art as wearing the colour throughout history, but I guess as we've become more secular this notion has faded away but I think we can establish that blue definitely used to be a girl's colour at some point in time. As to whether pink was a boy's colour that is much harder to prove; you often get sites citing old articles which when read turn out to be untrue, but the colour red was a common favourite among men and boys but because of inferior dying technology the colours in these garments used to run or fade, resulting in red clothing turning pink, so considering this I don't think it would have been unusual to see boys and men wearing pink, and it was probably accepted, but whether it was specifically a colour for them is uncertain, but then again I doubt you'd find the same frothing at the mouth hatred towards boy's wearing it as you do today.

As to how pink became a girl's colour I believe it happened for a number of reasons, perhaps because homosexuals were shamed with the colour during WWII and the implications that resulted, or more importantly because of how girls toys, especially Barbie dolls, were marketed after WWII, which like how Coca Cola has cemented red as the colour for Christmas, seems to have cemented the colour pink in our minds for girls.

Moving on though more certain however is whether or not boys wore long stockings which they certainly did. Seen depicted below are three American children from the 1920s.



For those not in the know long stockings are effectively really long socks hence the name, depending on the length they can go up to near your thigh, or if longer all the way up to the bottom of your underwear, with them usually being held up by a bodice or garter waist, and were pretty much the precursor to tights. In fact they were seen as a favourite by mothers because of their practicality, with them being popular throughout all of Europe, and even in America and the UK up until the late 1920's, and after long stockings came tights.


Seen above is two Russian children from 1988, yes it's pretty much still acceptable for boys to wear tights in Russia as it is in many Eastern European countries such as Poland too, in fact young boys wear them in Germany as well although they're referred to as kinderstrumphosen instead, which to my UK mind seems a bit baffling because if that were to happen here it would really garner looks and turn heads.

Now if you're still with me I saved the biggest shocker for last.



That is not a girl it's actually a boy as amazing as that is. Prinz = prince - V = of - Bayern = Bavaria hence Prince Luitpold of Bavaria who was born in 1901 and died in 1914, so I reckon the picture is dated between 1903-1905. As to why he's wearing a dress well up until the very early 1900's it was common for boys to wear dresses, the reason being that it's easier to change a child's nappy/diaper if they're in a dress, with boys not having to worry about awkward buttons or claps to deal with once they were potty trained, and going further back the practice was pretty much expected up to a certain age in Victorian times, with boy's usually switching to breeches around the age of four or five, hence the practice was called breeching.

And if dressing little boys in dresses wasn't enough, they were often given very feminine haircuts too.



Seen above is Prince Leopold of Belgium (Luitpold/Leopold was a popular name among royalty then), with his younger brother Charles, and yes I think that is probably one of the most feminine outfits/haircuts I've even seen on a boy, his hair has obviously been put in curlers! Yet this was seen as perfectly acceptable and normal then.

So with the history lesson out of the way, here is the discussion value.

1. Did the information above shock you? And if it did/didn't how and why?

2. Have your views on gender and fashion changed? Either way how and why?

3. Why do you think we have such polar opposite views towards male fashion today compared to how it was historically? So basically how, why and when did the change occur?

4.Do you think removing gender exclusivity from clothing would result in more gender equality? And if so would you like that change to happen? Either way I'd be interested to know.


Edit - The post isn't concerned with proving fashion changes, (I guess I felt that was obvious and didn't include it), but why the fashions have changed and how you feel about it.
 

Wadders

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Thank you for this; interesting stuff, I love the photos and paintings!

I knew some of this; that boys used to wear stockings and dresses, high heels were common for affluent men, and pink and blue used to have reversed roles. I wasn't aware of the reasons for boys wearing frock type garments though - it's actually very practical, so thanks for that. Also I wasn't aware that blue was associated with Virgin Mary, so that cleared it up for me.

My personal views on fashion have changed significantly, although I think that it is important to differentiate between fashion and style. As a younger chap (in my teens) I was a scruffy wearer of old jeans and hoodies, now in my 20's I find it hard to dress down even if I'm just popping to the shop for milk and bread. I'm far less scathing and condescending towards people who are aware of and follow fashion than I used to be. I guess now I realise that like it or not, appearance and dressing well is important. I don't follow fashion as such, although I take care not to look like I've walked out of the mid-90's for example, I decline to take part in some of the more outlandish trends, preferring to look smart and modern. Fuck that sounded pretentious.

I'm not overly sure our views on male fashion have changed drastically. Fashion for men has always been important, but for different reasons. Dressing in an up to date manner was important as an indicator of wealth throughout history. In that painting for instance, Louis XIV's shoes are painted red, as the cost of red paint/pigment was higher than that of other colours. In their world, fashion was important in helping one stand out and assert oneself, and was part of a wider culture of aristocratic/gentry prestige which could lead to increased likelihood of things like appointments to a role in court or within the military.

I guess now it's the same, but different. You an still pay a lot for fashion, so it had not diminished as a status symbol, although now the indicators are harder to find, for the more untrained eye. As wealth is now more equally distributed people can afford better/nice clothes, whereas historically fashion was a much clearer indicator of wealth - you wouldn't get landless laborers wearing silk stockings for instance :p

The clothes themselves have changed of course, but again, change in fashion is constant. Sure men wearing powdered wigs and stockings seems weird now, and drastically removed from our modern ideas of what looks good, but guaranteed 200 years from now we'll be wearing some crazy looking shit.

Regarding the last point, I think it's a possibility, but I'm not sure I'd like it to happen. Members of both genders like wearing nice clothes, unique to their sex. They enjoy choosing said clothes, and it makes the world a more diverse and interesting place. If we all just wore unisex gowns, the world would be boring as shit. But that's just my view.

I'll stop rambling now, hopefully what I've said isn't too boring/obvious :p

As an aside, may I ask where your interest in this kind of thing comes from? Because it sounds like it would have the makings of a brilliant dissertation question for a history degree.
 

Pinkamena

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Are you telling me that fashion changes?! Inconceviable!
Still it's pretty weird to see that prince in a dress.
 

Hagi

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Not quire sure what you're trying to prove here but isn't it kinda common knowledge that fashion has changed wildly in human history, still is changing and will most like continue to change?

As for my views on fashion, if I have any then I'm blissfully unaware of them. I've always worn jeans and a t-shirt, mostly because that's what I've always been wearing. Thus it requires the least amount of effort to maintain. When shopping my criteria is generally "good enough" and then go do something else.

Fashion's always changing and doing so for a variety of reasons. A central theme most like is the desire to distinguish oneself. Both as part of a certain group, thus wearing the same clothing, and as different to other groups, thus not wearing the clothing that previous generations wore.

Not quite sure how gender exclusivity of clothing would impact gender equality, a lot of things don't really seem to be exclusive anymore. Plenty of men wearing pink, plenty of women in jeans etc. Stuff like dresses still are exclusive but I'd say that's in part because they're designed to fit an average woman's shape (broader hips etc.) compared to an average man's shape (broader shoulders etc.).

Overall I'd say just wear whatever you want, society's views on it aren't going to change if everyone wears the same. But luckily that's what people seem to have been doing ever since there even was a concept of fashion.
 

zxvcasdfqwerzxcv

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As a man I find male fashion sadly...underrepresented? I'm not sure if that's the word I'm looking for.
It's like whenever I go to a shopping centre and see that 95% of clothes aren't for men. There's a lack of variety, I can never find something that truly suits me (in my opinion).
Still, I love a good, classic look. Nice, crisp shirts and smart trousers. If only I could find some good shoes that actually fit my giant feet...
 

Jamieson 90

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Hagi said:
Not quire sure what you're trying to prove here
Not trying to prove anything as I was more interested to open a debate on the questions asked, that and perhaps educating people who are unaware of how the fashions have changed, I never really doubted that fashion changes in general as it obviously does as I showed in the OP, but more why the changes have resulted in polar opposites to the historical view, by that I mean that hose/leggings/skirts etc have been part of the male wardrobe for hundreds of years if not centuries, but in the last hundred or so years that's completely changed, I'm not saying that it's right or wrong but that it's interesting.
 

Esotera

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I would absolutely love it if Tudor fashion came back in a big way, the capes and tights would be so awesome, it'd be like everyone was a superhero.

And yeah, fashion constantly changes. What is interesting is that we forget so quickly about those changes and assume it's always been that way because of tradition.
 

Hagi

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Jamieson 90 said:
Hagi said:
Not quire sure what you're trying to prove here
Not trying to prove anything as I was more interested to open a debate on the questions asked, that and perhaps educating people who are unaware of how the fashions have changed, I never really doubted that fashion changes in general as it obviously does as I showed in the OP, but more why the changes have resulted in polar opposites to the historical view, by that I mean that hose/leggings/skirts etc have been part of the male wardrobe for hundreds of years if not centuries, but in the last hundred or so years that's completely changed, it's not right or wrong but interesting.
Ah, my bad then.

Your first question seemed a tad smug, then again it's hard to judge such things in just text.

It's definitely interesting but I think if you go back even further you'll find no shortage of such drastic changes in human fashion and it'll become less of a drastic shift and more of a continual development.

Who knows what we'll be wearing a hundred years or more from now.
 

Jamieson 90

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Wadders said:
As an aside, may I ask where your interest in this kind of thing comes from? Because it sounds like it would have the makings of a brilliant dissertation question for a history degree.
Thanks for the great and detailed reply. To answer your question though my interest came from a number of areas. Back when I was at university (Awhile ago), I read in History and Sociology, and through that did a lot of work on gender, gender identity, and more specifically fashion through the ages and how it's changed. As for how I learned about the specific issues like boys wearing dresses/stockings, that came from my love of photography so I discovered a lot of the concepts from vintage photographs, and as a result my interest was piqued and like any avid historian I went and researched it further, and yes it would make for an interesting dissertation but sadly I've already done mine, oh well maybe someone will read this and use it.
 

SVilleca

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Hello Jamieson 90, among others,

I think that fashion is mostly a waste of time and that it makes more sense to wear whatever is affordable and comfortable. I often wear skirts during the summer months, and I am male. I do not care what others consider socially acceptable or fashionable because it's not worth being concerned with.

I was aware of most of this history, but thank you for taking the time to put it all together.

SVilleca
 

TheRightToArmBears

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1. No. I was aware of all that.

2. No. Regardless of history, I still hate pink (mind you, I don't even like it when girls wear pink. Cliché much?).

3. I don't really know. Times change. That said, I remember, even in my lifetime, it being a little bit less strict for younger children (women seem to love to play dressup with children. as soon as they're old enough to tell them to bugger off, children get forced to wear ridiculous clothing). I remember, before they changed the uniform to the current (and infinitely more practical) uniform, having to wear really long socks with a garter in Cub Scouts. Stuff just changes, I'm sure if you wore modern clothes 100 years ago people would think you looked silly.

4. I doubt it would do much for gender equality. Women can pretty much wear men's clothes no problem, and it's not like there aren't a lot of men that dress quite effeminately these days. Deep V-necks anyone? Skinny jeans? Stupid haircuts?