Man of Steel - How to fix it?

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I could not care less about Superman being not the goody two shoes he classically is. How I would fix the movie is better dialogue and characterisation for everyone, including showing Lois having some modicum of trouble tracking him down, a bit of small talk or even humour between characters, a heartfelt conversation between Clark and his father's hologram, making characters generally less sage-like (especially Clark's human father and the head editor), and largely getting rid of the military fetishism.

And Zod not being a complete dickhead would probably have improved the movie a bit. Lightheadedness for a few years as opposed to going up against one of your own because you want to terraform the planet? What the fuck?

MOS goes out of it's way to wave aside the "yellow sun=powers" bit and explains that Krypton is harsh and awful but Earth is nice and calm. So a Kryptonian growing up and developing on Earth would develop Superpowers.
Good...fine.

So why do Zod and his crew get super powers after just a few hours on earth? This isn't a nitpick it's a big plot point that the movie addresses several times and doesn't bother explaining.

And that little scene where Zod just focusses and readjusts his whole sensory system, something Clark had to spend most of his childhood struggling with.

 

[Something Amyss]

S"Superman DOES NOT kill" didnät really matter to me when Zod was clearly intent on humanity's complete annihilation.

I don't care if Superman becomes the next Punisher, that scene was still freaking stupid.

"DON'T DO IT, ZOD!"
"I'M GOING TO DO IT! I'M GOING TO FIRE MY EYE BEAMS AT THESE RANDOM PEOPLE, BUT FAR ENOUGH AWAY THAT THEY COULD WALK OFF BY THEMSELVES AND TILT MY HEAD SO SLOWLY THAT THEY COULD GET A SANDWICH BEFORE THEY DO SO! YOUR ONLY RECOURSE IS TO KILL ME RIGHT THIS INSTANT!"

Then Supes snaps his neck, has a dumb emo moment (which is sort of pointless in itself, as they haven't established a reason this is wrong), and it's all forgeotten. Which brings me to....

I'm sure Superman's guilt over killing will be a major plot point in the next movie and the deterrent for killing Luthor if and when Luthor shows up.

Yeah, except they dropped it right then and there. If they can't even keep up that plot point for the rest of a nearly-finished movie, what makes you think they're going to be able to play the long game?

So how do we fix the movie?

Well, the initial band-aid would probably be changing the scenario. Establish Superman's compunctions beyond some last minute "don't do it!" and one Vader-esque NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Or whatever. Far as I can remember, this really isn't covered much beyond the plot convenience of making Kal sad when he breaks the bad guy's neck. Hell, just a little while ago he was all "Krypton had its chance....Go Earth!"

I also don't buy the bullshit excuse Zod was doing this 'for Krypton,' though with Nolan and Snyder on this, I'm sure they had forgotten about that line six seconds after it was penned.

But there's systemic problems with this movie. It's got a serious case of ADHD, which hurts the presentation. Its characters are largely flat and colourless. Performances are mostly bad. Messages are mixed, even form the same sources.

And Christ, I could probably just post a transcript of NC's complaints, because mine are pretty similar.

How do you fix a movie like this? From the ground up.

I feel "everything" is a cop-out, though. I'm just struggling for things I can say that didn't need fixing.

The action was pretty awesome. I loved watching Kal and Zod kick the shit out of each other, to the point it temporarily blockd everything else about the movie from my mind.

 

[Vivi22]

The fact that he blew s**t up with no regard to civilians didn't really bother me because that's how I saw how a punch-up between two gods on earth would go down.

People who complain about this failed to notice that Superman himself is responsible for almost no damage to buildings that could actually be occupied. Most of the damage he causes is the result of someone else punching/throwing him into something.

Mind you, a lot of complaints people had with the movie are fairly silly.

 

[KazeAizen]

I don't think Superman could ever be improved except by destroying it.

Destroying the whole Superman franchise and character? Why?

I don't think anything good could actually come out of a Superman adaptation. The character and concept just doesn't warrant it. The only way it could be good would be if it was no longer recognisable as Superman.

Wow what bit you in the butt? It doesn't warrant and adaptation and it can be good and recognizable as Superman. I don't see what your playing at.

I have no idea what you just said, sorry.

I'm saying it can be recognizable as Superman and can be good contrary to your belief. I mean after all it was done way back in the 70s.

 

[Crazy Zaul]

Cut out most of the first 80 mins where nothing happened. It got pretty awesome after that but the 1st half is so boring. I don't know how the hell Joe watched it 3 times in a week.

 

[Seracen]

Not saying that any of this is necessary, as I liked MoS, but there are a few things in this vid that would make more sense than what we got...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjSNLmb0Ndw

Honestly, the only thing I felt lacking was more of Clark learning to be Superman. I'd have liked to see a solid 10 minutes of him being Clark, saving people in the Superman suit BEFORE Zod showed up. As for how to approach it, he could do it like "the Blue Blur" out of Smallville, just saving people too quickly to be seen, or doing it on the sly.

It would have been an interested journey to see. Also, I preferred pa' Kent dying from a heart attack, though this was was "more dramatic." Perhaps they could have had him die of a heart attack AND a tornado, lol.

And to avoid making the movie too long, I'd have cut out the tentacle part on the other weapon. That would have been prime for voice flashback (not imagery, we shouldn't be taken out of the fight to SEE a flashback), while Supes struggled against the beam.

This dude said it better than me...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVR1ozVnUSM

Overall, a few minor tweaks. I actually did enjoy the overall film, and I can appreciate Nostalgia Critic understanding why people liked it, even if he doesn't see those reasons himself.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Honestly, Superman killing Zod made the movie a lot better IMO. There was no real way for him to stop him so he killed him. Otherwise, Zod would have kept killing innocent people. I'm tired of so many super heroes having this "don't kill no matter what" attitude.

 

[Annihilist]

I don't think Superman could ever be improved except by destroying it.

Destroying the whole Superman franchise and character? Why?

I don't think anything good could actually come out of a Superman adaptation. The character and concept just doesn't warrant it. The only way it could be good would be if it was no longer recognisable as Superman.

Wow what bit you in the butt? It doesn't warrant and adaptation and it can be good and recognizable as Superman. I don't see what your playing at.

I have no idea what you just said, sorry.

I'm saying it can be recognizable as Superman and can be good contrary to your belief. I mean after all it was done way back in the 70s.

I don't care much for superman.

I'm sure Superman's guilt over killing will be a major plot point in the next movie and the deterrent for killing Luthor if and when Luthor shows up.

Fuck Superman's guilt.

That's my problem with that scene and the whole idea of this movie/franchise in general. Explain to me why Superman's acting like an angsty crybaby over having to kill Zod again?

(seriously, NO ONE is allowed to talk shit about Tobey McGuire's Spiderman movies anymore after this nonsense)

1. It was never established that he had a thing against killing to begin with, so to act like he broke some sacred rule or something just comes out of left field and feels artificial.

2. Superman and Zod never had a truly established relationship. Sure, they were the last of their species, but Superman never actually cared for him in any way. He didn't consider him a friend or companion; the entire motivation behind giving himself over to Zod in the first place was he was concerned for Earth's safety. Now if the motivation was "Wait, there's people like me out there? Maybe I should check this out..." and Zod was trying to sweet talk him to join his side or something, that'd make sense. But any time the choice was between Earth and Krypton, he chose Earth everytime. DEFINITIVELY at the end when he blew up the last of the Matrix egg thingys on Zod's ship.

2A. I mean really, what'd you expect to happen in your punch out, Supes? Any one of the bazillion punches could have killed him, but the neck breaking was Ohhhhh so hard for you to do? Again, maybe you should have thought out your plans with Zod BEFORE blowing up the ship and continuing to have a punching contest with the guy you supposedly didn't want to kill.

3. Instead of giving Superman more annoying selfish angst, how about, oh I don't know, have him CHECK UP ON THE FAMILY HE SAVED? Maybe see if THEY'RE okay from the most traumatizing moment of their lives? Perhaps? Eventually? Okay...

Just something as simple as walking over to them, offering a helping hand up, and going "Are you okay?" would have shown that this nameless family's safety legitimately mattered to him. That even though he killed off the last of the Krypton race, he now cares for and will dedicate his life to being the protector of his new human family. And despite all the crap we had to wad through to get to it, it also wraps Superman's arc up; now Superman sees that the people WON'T shun him like he feared, rather they are ready to welcome him and he's ready to be a part of our human race. I mean that was the entire point of this damn movie right? What his two daddies wouldn't stop pontificating on and on about right?

The ONE thing they wanted to do with this movie and THEY GOT IT WRONG. How does that level of fail even exist?

And don't even get me started on the destroyed satellite scene...

Man of Selfish Angst is the alternate title for the 3rd worst movie of 2013. For all the asinine plot points and the wrong aesthetic choices and lack of characterization I could nitpick and tear apart, it's the fact that they took a kind, brave, genuine, heartfelt, smart, inspiring, TRUE hero and turned him into a selfish, angsty, cowardly, overly violent, meathead manchild douchebag for NO reason other than "HerpDerp DaKidzLikeDarknGritty" that makes this so contemptible.

I'm glad they refrained from using the word Superman in the movie, because I don't know who the fuck that clown was. Cuz Superman he ain't.

Amen to that. Although I have to say: 3rd worst film? I'd have to say worst film of this year.

 

[Psychobabble]

Since this [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Cl5FzEIjY] and Nostalgia Critic's review of it came out pretty recently, I've been thinking back to Man of Steel. I liked the film, but many people didn't. It even seems quite a lot of people even hated it. What I would like to hear from this group is how they would have made the film to make it something they would have liked.

I'll shed some light on two points that were criticized and why they didn't bother me nearly as much as they did others.

1. The product placement

One complaint I've seen time and time again is the amount of product placement in a certain scene. Now that I've seen it multiple times, yeah, it is pretty stupid. But I failed to notice it at all because none the brands in the scene can even be found in the country I live in. For all it mattered to me, the signs could easily have said "Ogga wogga" and "Ooga Booga" instead of "Sears" or "Ihop".

2. The ruination of Superman

This might be a cultural thing. In the same way I'm not familiar with the brands mentioned above, neither am I familiar with the concept of Superman being some sort of patron deity of hope and justice. To me he's always just been the archetypal superhero, and not a very interesting one at that. I knew who he was, but I've never read those comics on any sort of basis. To me the more serious tone and darker story made the character more interesting. The fact that he blew s**t up with no regard to civilians didn't really bother me because that's how I saw how a punch-up between two gods on earth would go down. "Superman DOES NOT kill" didnät really matter to me when Zod was clearly intent on humanity's complete annihilation. Come to think of it, it has never mattered to me.

So as a part of the masses of sheep who just went to see a big action-packed blockbuster, I got exactly what I wanted. Guess I'm just dumb. But how would you have made it? What should Supes have done with Zod? How could he have dealt with him in a more "Superman" way?

TL;DR: If you didn't like Man of Steel, what things would you have changed to make it a good film in you opinion?

You just answered your own question. They could have replaced "Superman" with any super powered being and the film would have been absolutely no different, as it was just a film devoted to huge budget destruction porn.

 

[SKBPinkie]

I honestly didn't care much for it. I don't even want to analyze it as a philosophical / emotional story, cause there are too many inconsistencies for the former and too little going on in the latter.

As far as an action movie goes, it was fairly good. Although the final fight dragged on for what felt like 20-30 minutes. The best part of the movie (if only seen as an action flick), was Faora's fight scenes. She was an absolute badass.

 

[TheSYLOH]

My problem was the blatant stupidity on display by all the characters.So SPOILER WARNING



Lets start with Farm Dad.
Farm dad rivals the Later Generation Star Trek Federation for callous disregard for sentient life: Bus full of school children drowning? LET EM DROWN! CONFORM! CONFORM!
Its one thing to say, you shouldn't be advertising your powers on TV, its another to say let those children die because they MIGHT rat you out.
During the tornado scene I was LAUGHING. Because the underpass thing is likely to get people killed and his death is entirely HIS FAULT. Not just, superman don't save me, but running back to get the dog himself, and "Hey Clark, you could survive a tornado, the fact that im doing it my self means I think I won't necessarily reveal a superhuman aspect, why don't you go?" or even "fuck, I love that dog, but it aint worth my life or the life of my family"


Zod, they made the mistake of trying to make him a nuanced villain and then made his plan and motivation stupid from the start to the finish.
OK, so you have to get something from superman, what do you do to convince him to help you find the codex? BURY HIM IN SKULLS! Surely that would convince him to aid in your plan.
Also you got a planet where you can fly, have super strength, gives you x-ray sight and heat vision. Its obviously survivable, that kid survived 30 years and he looks like a million bucks. But not.... its kinda hard. LETS TURN IT INTO THAT SHITTY ASS PLANET WE USED TO HAVE.
Also why did they drag Louis Lane onto the ship? If you want to argue mind probing, why not the highest ranking commander there?

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

It was a script ultimately written by at least two different people who each had different interpretations of the movie and each didn't know their script wasn't 100% them. I can't begin criticizing it without saying start over the basic script from the beginning.

Every complaint I have with it - the Lois Lane, Krypton being built up in the beginning and promptly destroyed, Zod having no real backstory or good enough motivation, the melodramatic flashbacks, Kal-El's clone... thing being the laziest story progressing copout there could have been, the plot suddenly taking off too quickly, the compression of the events... it works, but it doesn't work well. If it was a second draft, it's good enough, but I don't want a good enough second draft.

I think, overall, the story needed to take place over a longer period. Have Zod's first message to the world being a threat of complete devastation through every electrical device in the world should have been smaller key, at least a little bit more tactical. Have a pair of his soldiers hunt him out first, at least be a little bit subtle. And then maybe some problems I have would be fixed, like Zod getting all of Superman's abilities in something like three hours.

 

[KazeAizen]

I don't care much for superman.

Then why are you on a Man of Steel thread that is about nothing but Superman? I feel sorry for you actually for not caring about something/someone like Superman.

 

[theseworlds]

I was pretty excited to see this movie. Finally rented it the other week, and was thoroughly disappointed. Eventually, I just turned it off and went to bed.

This movie, in my opinion, was just boring. It kept trying to make a connection between the audience and Superman in spite of the fact that he is, pretty much, a god. Everything felt so absolutely forced and plastic, and I can't seem to put my finger on what exact aspect draws me to that conclusion. The whole film just feels fake, demanding I feel sympathy or camaraderie or something for this character, and that simply didn't happen all. Not sure how to fix that- back to the drawing board?

Also, for an action film, I thought it was very lacklustre. I was reminded of DragonBall Z in every fight, and then immediately reminded why I stopped watching that when I was 12 - There's only so many times you can see a guy thrown through a building, etc...

 

[Vausch]

Zod: Why did you show Superman that pile of skulls in a holographic projection that suggests you're going to kill everybody on the planet he cares about and calls home? Moron.

Demoralizing the enemy can be a pretty effective strategy actually. Just a shame Superman is impervious to fucking everything.

OT: A lot of the criticism i've heard directed at this movie is that it's not "Superman" enough which i suppose is arguably true, and it further reinforces the idea someone planted in my head before watching it that it was a Superman movie made to reel in the people who didn't like Superman to begin with. Though obviously that means there's got to be some pretty drastic changes to his character which is probably what sparked some people's backlash.

Personally i nearly cheered in the theater when he killed Zod towards the end because to me it meant that Superman finally felt vulnerable enough to snap that rule in half, and that word "vulnerable" isn't exactly in common use when talking about Superman. Fair enough he was new to this whole superhero business and establishing rules might be reserved for later, but it's still interesting that his first big enemy faced his demise that way. Might make for some interesting character building later; another thing i've always thought Superman lacked.

Y'know, killing Zod isn't the worst thing about it. Heck, Supes killed Zod in the second Reeves movie and nobody seemed to care, and he killed him in the comics and it really tore him up leading him to leave Earth because he worried he'd become more violent and cause harm to innocent people, but eventually learned that without him the people of Earth are far from better off. The thing that bugged me the most though is WHY he killed him. Of all things I just kept thinking during that scene "Fly up...fly up... fly up and get him out of there CLARK WHY ARE YOU STUPID?!"

 

[chozo_hybrid]

People need to remember, he only became superman when he revealed himself to go up to Zods ship. He didn't have all these established rules etc yet, but a lot of what happened in this one will probably be why he follows a code of non-killing and preventing collateral damage when he can.

Also, as someone else noted, Supes didn't cause most of the damage, Zod did. He has yet to really train as a fighter, so he was up against someone with his own powers, but also military experience in combat. No one seems to mention this. There's even one part in the fight up in the air where Superman bashes him and follows up with a few more punches to probably try move the fight. But since his enemy is intent on killing him and every human he sees, coupled with superior training, it was hard to do.

As for the snapping Zods neck bit, I thought it made sense. The battle went on for ages, he couldn't just fly up as Zod would have resisted and Superman was growing weary at this point, last of his strength to end it, or have Zod kick the crap out of him seemed like what would happen. As for the people Zod was about to zap, people do stupid things when they are scared, some people just freeze, so saying "they could have just left/got out" when a god-like being is laser eying toward would freak most people out.

Just my opinion on those, as to what I would change?

Have him lament over Zods death a bit more and show it affects him before moving on to the next bit.

More color would have been nice, but it didn't bother me too much.

Zods and his followers gaining control of their powers too quickly would have been nice if it was explained. My guess was, it was harder for Clark as he was a child, but an adult reacts to this change quicker? Either way, was a silly thing to leave out.

That's all I can think of right now. All said and done, I enjoyed the movie, it's not perfect, but it could build up from here to be something great. Here's hoping.

Lets start with Farm Dad.
Farm dad rivals the Later Generation Star Trek Federation for callous disregard for sentient life: Bus full of school children drowning? LET EM DROWN! CONFORM! CONFORM!
Its one thing to say, you shouldn't be advertising your powers on TV, its another to say let those children die because they MIGHT rat you out.
During the tornado scene I was LAUGHING. Because the underpass thing is likely to get people killed and his death is entirely HIS FAULT. Not just, superman don't save me, but running back to get the dog himself, and "Hey Clark, you could survive a tornado, the fact that im doing it my self means I think I won't necessarily reveal a superhuman aspect, why don't you go?" or even "fuck, I love that dog, but it aint worth my life or the life of my family"

As Joe pointed out in the video, when Clark asks if he should have let them die, he responds with "Maybe." because he doesn't know the answer, due to life being full of uncertain things. He never said "Yep, should have let them die."

I just kept thinking during that scene "Fly up...fly up... fly up and get him out of there CLARK WHY ARE YOU STUPID?!"

I reckon he was exhausted, as I state above in my post. Zod will have resisted and most likely knocked him around for a sec, then blasted the people to death before going back to killing an exhausted Superman. Just because we think of him being able to fly up doesn't mean he will, plus Zod will have resisted that, being stronger then him due to not holding back any bit. For all we know, he was trying to fly up and it wasn't working because Zod was keeping them there.