Manliness VS Sentimental in Men?

[LetalisK]

First off, "manliness" is a term that parodies itself and is probably not the best one. For simplicities sake, I'll continue to use the term though.

Every woman is different, but this is my general rule of thumb: manliness in public, sentimentality in private. A woman wants someone who she can feel safe with, especially around other people, but also one that can open up to her and talk to her when it's appropriate. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

edit: wow, huge typing error

 

[Vankraken]

Emotional expression and manliness are two different things in my eyes. Just because you let yourself become vulnerable or express deeper emotions has very little impact on the ability for a man to be the "pants wearer". A well adjusted man is one who knows when to have that guard up but also knows when its beneficial expose there emotions.
Honestly guys that ignore there emotional signals can be more likely to develop communication or anger/abuse issues. Emotions are powerful feelings and even when you ignore them they do affect your life until your able to properly resolve them.
Sure there are those that seem to have the tissue paper thin skin and are unable to handle any sort of emotional problem without breaking down but again that's not the same as being in touch with your emotions.
In my daily life im able to function normally and handle problems that come my way but i know that I'm able to express my emotions to my wife and try to resolve them.
The reverse is the same for women as most guys wouldn't want to have a girl that isn't able to express there feelings but at the same time you don't want a girl that isn't able to handle problems without breaking down every time.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Ouch. That was a bit harsh.

Don't worry, you'll get over it.

We can't pique the interest of everyone in the world after all, and there's no reason trying to please everyone in the world either, and sometimes you're bound to have to step on a few toes.

You probably realize this on some level as well as I do, and thus you won't have to take my extrapolated disintrest very personally. And you might even be able to appreciate my genuine honesty, despite the fact that it might not be the most diplomatic kind (then again, im not in the business of diplomacy and never claimed to be so...)

I can see that too. That's actually a bit surprising; rarely have I heard guys speak of interest in warrior women. It's actually kind of refreshing.

I think this might be because many guys tend to have rather limited imagination and often make their stands based on past experiences a little too much.

Thus if they hear of "warrior woman" ideals that I have a soft spot for, they might associate that with "manlyness" (simply because most warriors throughout history tend to be men and not women). And thus not find it all very "feminine" and attractive.

And that doesn't really mean that my turn ons are focused on some kind of butch, pseudo-lesbian army girl who keeps her hair cropped and smell of sweat and gasoline all the time.

I appreciate many of the classical visual feminine attributes as much as any red-blooded male heterosexual does (though I do think that I have decently tasteful standards, and I don't really slober over just seeing a pair of tits if the person "carrying" them doesn't inerest me that much).

It's more of a bunch of core ideals and personality traits that triggers it all for me. A kind of killer instinct if you will that tells me that if his woman would ever be mugged or subjected to a rape attempt she would scratch he eyes out of the attackers and probably even pull a gun from her purse and gun them down.

She would be the kind of woman who might go out late at night dressed in a rather provocative fashion, but not because she's like a lot of other women who simply assume that the world is a "safe place" and that you don't run any sort of risk of being assaulted when taking certain paths home at night, but because she knows that she could take down an attacker who tried to pull something like that on her if they forced her into a position that she can't just run away from.

And now you might think im one of those guys with emotional problems or something like that, but that's actually pretty far from the truth. I am in touch with my emotions, and what better is, I have the eloquent abilities to actually put into words what I feel in ways that a lot of people might have problems with doing. (although as you might have suspected, im no the best when it comes to feigning humility, but I figure that a true warrior woman could handle that wihout getting all offended by it)

 

[the_bearpelt]

We can't pique the interest of everyone in the world after all, and there's no reason trying to please everyone in the world either, and sometimes you're bound to have to step on a few toes.

You probably realize this on some level as well as I do, and thus you won't have to take my extrapolated disintrest very personally. And you might even be able to appreciate my genuine honesty, despite the fact that it might not be the most diplomatic kind (then again, im not in the business of diplomacy and never claimed to be so...)

Hahah! Consider it appreciated. It makes an intellectual conversation as such quite fun.

I think this might be because many guys tend to have rather limited imagination and often make their stands based on past experiences a little too much.

Thus if they hear of "warrior woman" ideals that I have a soft spot for, they might associate that with "manlyness" (simply because most warriors throughout history tend to be men and not women). And thus not find it all very "feminine" and attractive.

And that doesn't really mean that my turn ons are focused on some kind of butch, pseudo-lesbian army girl who keeps her hair cropped and smell of sweat and gasoline all the time.

I appreciate many of the classical visual feminine attributes as much as any red-blooded male heterosexual does (though I do think that I have decently tasteful standards, and I don't really slober over just seeing a pair of tits if the person "carrying" them doesn't inerest me that much).

It's more of a bunch of core ideals and personality traits that triggers it all for me. A kind of killer instinct if you will that tells me that if his woman would ever be mugged or subjected to a rape attempt she would scratch he eyes out of the attackers and probably even pull a gun from her purse and gun them down.

She would be the kind of woman who might go out late at night dressed in a rather provocative fashion, but not because she's like a lot of other women who simply assume that the world is a "safe place" and that you don't run any sort of risk of being assaulted when taking certain paths home at night, but because she knows that she could take down an attacker who tried to pull something like that on her if they forced her into a position that she can't just run away from.

And now you might think im one of those guys with emotional problems or something like that, but that's actually pretty far from the truth. I am in touch with my emotions, and what better is, I have the eloquent abilities to actually put into words what I feel in ways that a lot of people might have problems with doing. (although as you might have suspected, im no the best when it comes to feigning humility, but I figure that a true warrior woman could handle that wihout getting all offended by it)

No, I can tell that you're definitly in touch with your own emotions. (Or, at the very least, good at pretending to be...?) I can definitly see why a guy would be attracted to such a woman. I am, sadly, much more of a delicate flower. *laughs* I'm much too petite and eccentric to be a battle-worthy sort of woman, but definitly respect those who are.

You, sir, are fun to talk to. I don't meet many people, even online, who are as honest/blunt as you are while still managing to come off as tactful.

 

[the_bearpelt]

"Pants-wearer" seems very synonymous with "manly" in this thread.
I'll leave it to the rest of you to deduce that however you like. The psychology and anthropology behind it could be fascinating

 

[Canadamus Prime]

A guy can be in touch with his emotions and not be a wimp you know. Emotional maturity doesn't make you weak, it makes it easier to relate to.

I think that the macho dunderheads are the weak ones to be honest. Being afraid of your own heart is stupid.

Exactly. There's a difference between being manly and being a dickhead.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Hahah! Consider it appreciated. It makes an intellectual conversation as such quite fun.

Splendid.

I too like intellectual conversations, but I hate it when they devolve into beating around the bush too much because everyone have to act so damn "civil" and worry about offending someone.

I know it might seem that im flooding this messageboard with this particular clip, but this guy sums up my opinions on "taking offense" so well:

No, I can tell that you're definitly in touch with your own emotions. (Or, at the very least, good at pretending to be...?) I can definitly see why a guy would be attracted to such a woman. I am, sadly, much more of a delicate flower. *laughs* I'm much too petite and eccentric to be a battle-worthy sort of woman, but definitly respect those who are.

Aww, you just have to reach in and pull that person out from inside like a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat, that's all.

So what if you're "petite and eccentric", who isn´t? I certainly don't belong to the group of musclebound meatheads of the world. Sure I might be standing 185 cm above ground level (thus eliminating the possibility of being called "petite"), but I am of a very "slender" build and don't exactly resemble the bastard offspring of a bulldozer and a shaved grizzly bear like some guys do in that regard.

And as for eccentricity I can't think of any situation where anyone ever called me "normal". And I sort of pride myself in that because I find "normal" to be terribly boring.

But despite my eccentricities and probably "less-than-army-regulations" physique, it doesn't mean that im not battle-worthy.

It's more of a mental and skillbased thing than anything else really. I used to have this little Jack Russel Terrier dog (rest his canine soul), but he possessed that "edge" that even made big rotweilers run scared whenever he came near them. He was actually the "big dog" of the block, despite the fact that he was so small. XD

... Not that im trying to compare you or me to an unhinged dog of course, but im sure you get the metaphor.

You'll only be a "delicate flower" as long as you keep thinking of yourself as one. Though there is the odd possibility that you might be perfectly fine with that, and I wouldn't dream of trying to make you change neither through suggestion or force.

But im sure you'll understand that I find it somewhat sad with all the "delicate flowers" everywhere, when I do believe that they do have the power to become a bit more.. "Vicious".

You, sir, are fun to talk to. I don't meet many people, even online, who are as honest/blunt as you are while still managing to come off as tactful.

"Tactful"? Aw, crap! I must be getting slack of late. Or perhaps it might be due to the language barrier, seeing as english isn' my first language, whatever "tone" that written messages migth convey could come off as somewhat different than if I had written it all in my primary tounge.

In any case, it's nice to know that you're having fun. Boredom is... well boring after all, and I wouldn't want people to be bored if I can help it (and have the energy and inspiration to of course).

 

[BonsaiK]

Okay, so I know that, within the last decade or two, being "sentimental" or "in touch with his emotions" has become very popular amongst the women today. Ladies just seem to want guys who are more open with their feelings.
As a fellow female, I've found this to be less than desirable because it's hard to find an emotional/sentimental guy who's still MANLY.
For me, I don't WANT to be the one in the relationship to have to wear the pants. HE has to. I want to be with a guy who will make me feel PROTECTED. (I'm not saying, of course, that he has to be a control freak/chauvanist/etc. You guys know what I mean, right? Do I need to outline this?)

For the ladies reading this, what do you think? If you had to choose, manliness or emotional/sentimental? Do you find it hard to find both in a man?

And for the men reading this, what's your take on it? Think I'm right or what?

It would be interesting if you were to elaborate on exactly what you mean by "manliness" and "wear the pants". You haven't defined these terms so that makes this discussion difficult to have.

Rolling with what info I've got anyway, asking which option one prefers is silly because it implies that people have to willingly choose between two pretty crappy options. It's like asking "do you prefer a motorbike with only a front wheel or only a back wheel?". I think that it's a false dichotomy to believe that there's "manly men" on one side of a spectrum and "emotional men" on the other. In fact, many of the really macho type of guys that I know are also incredibly hyper-emotional (they anger really easily, for instance). I think it's also a mistake to assume that someone who is in touch with their emotions can't also make their partner feel protected. I think I probably make my partners feel protected because I'm in touch with my emotions, and therefore know and understand my emotions enough to be able to make sure that she doesn't have to bear the brunt of them in a crisis, unlike some macho douche who might fly off the handle over some little thing and create drama that obscures the important issues.

 

[daftalchemist]

If I had to choose one or the other with no chance of a mix, emotional/sentimental all the way. What do I care about manliness? The most I need to be protected from are bugs, and it doesn't take much manliness to squish a spider.

 

[the_bearpelt]

Splendid.

I too like intellectual conversations, but I hate it when they devolve into beating around the bush too much because everyone have to act so damn "civil" and worry about offending someone.

I know it might seem that im flooding this messageboard with this particular clip, but this guy sums up my opinions on "taking offense" so well:

Hysterical video, by the way. Summed up everything I've ever thought of about politcal correctness.

So what if you're "petite and eccentric", who isn´t? I certainly don't belong to the group of musclebound meatheads of the world. Sure I might be standing 185 cm above ground level (thus eliminating the possibility of being called "petite"), but I am of a very "slender" build and don't exactly resemble the bastard offspring of a bulldozer and a shaved grizzly bear like some guys do in that regard.
...
You'll only be a "delicate flower" as long as you keep thinking of yourself as one. Though there is the odd possibility that you might be perfectly fine with that, and I wouldn't dream of trying to make you change neither through suggestion or force.

Heh. I can't really see myself being a rough-and-tough sort of woman. It just doesn't really suit me. Friends and I sort of have a running joke that if we were in a horror flick not only would I be the first to die, I'd die in the opening credits AND let the killer in the house. (Of course, it's only a joke. I'd never be that stupid.)

"Tactful"? Aw, crap! I must be getting slack of late. Or perhaps it might be due to the language barrier, seeing as english isn' my first language, whatever "tone" that written messages migth convey could come off as somewhat different than if I had written it all in my primary tounge.

In any case, it's nice to know that you're having fun. Boredom is... well boring after all, and I wouldn't want people to be bored if I can help it (and have the energy and inspiration to of course).

Really? I couldn't tell English wasn't your first language. You speak it very well.
I think the 'tactful' edge comes from the 'genuine honesty' part or something.

 

[the_bearpelt]

It would be interesting if you were to elaborate on exactly what you mean by "manliness" and "wear the pants". You haven't defined these terms so that makes this discussion difficult to have.

Rolling with what info I've got anyway, asking which option one prefers is silly because it implies that people have to willingly choose between two pretty crappy options. It's like asking "do you prefer a motorbike with only a front wheel or only a back wheel?". I think that it's a false dichotomy to believe that there's "manly men" on one side of a spectrum and "emotional men" on the other. In fact, many of the really macho type of guys that I know are also incredibly hyper-emotional (they anger really easily, for instance). I think it's also a mistake to assume that someone who is in touch with their emotions can't also make their partner feel protected. I think I probably make my partners feel protected because I'm in touch with my emotions, and therefore know and understand my emotions enough to be able to make sure that she doesn't have to bear the brunt of them in a crisis.

Mmm. I didn' elaborate because I thought it would be belaboring the subject, but it appears I was wrong. Enough people have questioned it where I see now I should've been more specific.

I didn't mean that people have to choose between the two indefinitly. I meant more along the lines of which one is more attractive or preferable to an individual. You make very good points, tho.

 

[daftalchemist]

I want to be with a guy who will make me feel PROTECTED. (I'm not saying, of course, that he has to be a control freak/chauvanist/etc. You guys know what I mean, right? Do I need to outline this?)

I know exactly what you're talking about. And I am EXTREMELY turned off by women like you.

A woman that I constantly have to "protect" isn't a very interesting one. I'd rather have a woman I can just toss a gun to and be confident that she'll watch my back the way I'll watch hers.

To put it bluntly, I want a warrior woman/valkyrie/femme fatale-ish woman. Mincy little cry-babies who needs to "feel" (and thus ultimately be) protected won't ever become interesting...

This is a dynamic I can get behind. It reminds me of my boyfriend and I, granted it's mostly in video games. He's the front man and I'm the support. So if he's not in front I'm going to get my face eaten off, but if I'm not in the back keeping his ass alive with healing or whatnot, we're both screwed. That's a solid dynamic, and we're able to effortlessly make it work in every game we play. I'm sure it somehow translates into our real lives as well, but that's much less interesting.

 

[Sharkosauros]

A bit of both , not much of one nor the other, 50 / 50

 

[Gingerman]

I'm not very emotional but I am a bit "flamboyant" so to speak which my girlfriend quite enjoys much to her amusement. I find it difficult explaining how I feel to someone that I don't trust and even if I do trust them (like my other half) I still find it kind of awkward, as well the mental conditioning of a man in my society says that emotions and expressing them are for weak men and women, which well... makes it awkward for me but hell I try.

I wear the trousers in my relationship but thankfully my other half isn't the submissive type and does voice her opinion on things but in general she cant be bothered making the unimportant decisions like which restaurant to go to so I'm forced into making those ones sadly. The only thing really I'm sentimental about is my pocket watch and my ring, the ring being a family heirloom and the watch a gift from my other half so if anyone touches them without my say I would be rather peeved. (well I say peeved I did throw a doc martins boot at my brother for playing around with the watch, hit him right in the jaw, looked rather sore thankfully he's older and a lot thicker)

I reckon most men would like to share their emotions but are to afraid to due to the whole must be a "man" vibe that there is in our culture which leads to two different problems. Men that do show their emotions and are ridiculed for it to a lesser extent and the others being "manly men" which leads to some blantent sexism then there's the majority of men that are stuck inbetween both. Then again I could be wrong here as I am making sweeping assumptions but hey maybe one day I'll be right with one.

 

[Kimarous]

I want to be with a guy who will make me feel PROTECTED. (I'm not saying, of course, that he has to be a control freak/chauvanist/etc. You guys know what I mean, right? Do I need to outline this?)

I've never understood this need for "protection". Then again, in the peaceful suburbs of Western Canada, that's understandable. Where I live, if someone genuinely needed "protection", it would be a situation where a smart person would realize that this was a job for the police, not an idiot whose heroics would only get people hurt.

EDIT: The fact that I both own and know how to wield a rapier, a longsword, and two katanas is completely besides the point. >_>

 

[martin's a madman]

Well, there's the Manly man.
And there's the Sensitive guy.

AND THEN THERE'S THE MEGABRAIN!
SUPREME REIGN!

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Hysterical video, by the way. Summed up everything I've ever thought of about politcal correctness.

Wonderful. He's a funny and clever guy that Steve Hughes.

Speaking of other stand-up comedians who are funny, witty, clever and sort of ideologically in line with myself, I suggest going over to youtube and type in the name Bill Hicks if you're not familiar with the man already. He might be dead, but he still cracks me up from beyond the grave. XD

Heh. I can't really see myself being a rough-and-tough sort of woman. It just doesn't really suit me.

Well, you know what they say: "in the calmest of waters..."

Haven't you done anything "rough-and-tough" in your life that you actually enjoyed or gave you an empowering feeling? Like going to a shooting range and fire a really loud gun or playing a really brutal videogame like God of War 3 and letting the devil inside have some fun or something like that?

Friends and I sort of have a running joke that if we were in a horror flick not only would I be the first to die, I'd die in the opening credits AND let the killer in the house. (Of course, it's only a joke. I'd never be that stupid.)

Hehehe

Must... Repress... Urge... To... Crack... Darwin... Award... Joke!

*phew*

Really? I couldn't tell English wasn't your first language. You speak it very well.
I think the 'tactful' edge comes from the 'genuine honesty' part or something.

Thank you.

Although I feel constantly rusty when it comes to english but I guess that's normal. I tend not to worry too much though and try to stay happy with getting my point across regardless of a few spelling/grammar mishaps, keyboard fumbles and malfunctions.

In any case, we'll settle with tactful for now. Im sure you'll have the opportunity to find out something about me through what I say here that will offend or disgust you eventually.

My screen-name is pretty sincere after all.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

If I had to choose one or the other with no chance of a mix, emotional/sentimental all the way. What do I care about manliness? The most I need to be protected from are bugs, and it doesn't take much manliness to squish a spider.

... Squish a poor defenseless little spider?

Now I don't consider myself to be macho nor effeminate, but spiders are my friends. After all, hey prey upon and eat my hated arch-enemies (flies and mosquitoes), and if I see one indoors I'll usually try to pick it up and take i outside (this because while I might consider them friends I wouldn't want to wake up one morning with my "friend" crawling across my face).

Speaking of protecting certain animals, I have actually helped snails/slugs across the road from time to time. XD

It's kind of silly but, I sort of think that nature has been pretty harsh on the poor things already, making them so slow like they are, and if any creatures on this earth deserves a break from time to time, it would be the slugs. So I pick them up and dump them on in the grass beside the road in whichever direcion they were going, so they won't get crushed by a car.

I have no idea if these quirks of mine make me manly or effeminate, but frankly, I don't care.

 

[matrix guardian]

It sounds like maybe you'd be interested in the Mankind Project, or rather interested in men in the Mankind Project. Well I guess that depends on if what you mean by "manly" is the hollywood "pick up a howitzer with your bare hands and blow away everything in sight" kind of manly, or you mean authentic masculinity. The Mankind Project is a non-profit organization that works toward supporting men in leading meaningful lives of integrity, accountability, responsibility, and emotional literacy. It addressess that issue you are talking about, how there seem to be two kinds of extremes: stoic confident heartless badasses, and sensitive spineless compassionate wimps. But the authentic mature masculine integrates these two aspects of spine and heart, and makes a whole man. Empowered AND compassionate. The Mankind Project is a community of men that support each other in their personal growth to be better men, and to create the life that they want. Here is the website if you want to check it out http://mankindproject.org/

Anyway, sorry if I sound like too advertize-y, I don't mean to. It's just something I'm passionate about and think that a lot of men could benefit from somthing like this. There aren't a lot of good positive role models for what it means to be a man, and we have lost a lot of the mechanisms by which boys learn to become men and what authentic masculinity means. Anyway, I just wanted to share how much being a part of the Mankind Project has improved my life in this aspect. I was always more of the sensitive wuss type. And through this I found that I am much more than that, and that I don't have to be a dick to be confident and empowered. Before then, I had equated being powerful with being an asshole (which I avoided), because those were the kinds of models I had to look up to. But I found a new way of being. I could be powerful and compassionate simultaneously. I didn't have to give up one for the other. And not only did I get this deeper awareness, but I had a community to support me in developing into the kind of man that I wanted to be. The Mankind Project offers so much more than that and on a deeper level, but anyway, it specifically addressess the issue in the OT. Anwway, if anyone is interested in it, I'd be happy to talk about it. Just send me a message.

 

[soilent]

Learn to protect yourself and stop being dependent on men, then date whoever the fuck you want, without being worried about being "protected".