Marijuana legalization

[axia777]

However the Home Secretary's justification is kinda a good counter-argument...snip...is that "just because some legal things are more dangerous is not a good reason to add another thing to the list. Cannabis may or may not be harmful, and in cases where the evidence is unclear, as it is in this drug, I would rather err on the side of caution" or words to that effect.

This would make sense if it were not for the massive amount of money spent every year by America to put pot offenders in jail. This totals in the billions of dollars. This is all wasted money as it shows of having NO effect as they have been putting pot heads in jail for decades. Has the supply of pot dried up? No. Has the amount of users decreased ever? No. Will prohibition of any drug work ever? No. So in the end a society must weigh the cost of how much they are spending on a useless a point less War on Drugs.

I have no idea what European countries spend on drug laws but I have a feeling it is seriously less money than America.

 

[INK]

OP: pot is not cut w/ anything and you are an idiot for suggesting otherwise

 

[similar.squirrel]

Growing tobacco is legal, yet you don't see many smokers doing it.
Ditto certain kinds of alcohol.
People will always go for the more convenient option once the novelty wears off.
Therefore, having marijuana cigarettes available in shops would be great for the economy and would be a crippling blow to unscrupulous dealers everywhere. Plus, taxing it could pay for a huge clampdown on other, more harmful drugs. A win-win situation, really. People who like weed WILL get it. Better if it's safe and doesn't fund criminals.

I smoke occasionally myself, but I never buy from dealers. Consider it my contribution to society >,>

 

[Ironic]

-big effing snip-

I gathered, but you were just telling me things I already knew and compared it with marijuana. Caffeine is bad for you. I don't drink it because of that. So is most Soy products and much much more. But all this doesn't make marijuana any less dangerous. I've experienced off hand two cases of friends close to me becoming very infected with it and doing horrible things because of it. Just saying.

Yes, and how many people die of alcohol poisoning a year, or get into drunk driving accidents and kill themselves or others? The argument that "we should ban it because it's not very good for you" is simply poor when you have far worse substances being sold at your local grocery store.

I simply compared it to caffeine because people who take the "it's bad for you so it's wrong" route don't seem to understand that the only difference between caffeine, tobacco, alcohol and marijuana is levels of social acceptance. If marijuana had not be demonized, the current attitudes on it would be completely different.

Edit: Do something that's bad for you once in a while. Have a beer, drink a cup of coffee. Spending your whole life avoiding everything that might possibly be bad for you is going a sad way to live. You're going to die anyway, life is a terminal condition.

It's a social thing. The government is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

On one hand
OSSIBLE link to schizophrenia
:Emerging links to people with serious mental health problems after lifetime of cannabis
:Inhaling smoke is not healthy, the lack of nicotine wont stop you from getting shitty lungs.
:Legalising one drug could lead to a "but drug X has no side effects according to new research, legalise THIS.
:If it turns out that the links to massive health and mental health problems ARE sound, and it was only lack of testing due to criminalisation in the first place that stopped long-term research being accurate, then it will be REALLY HARD TO RE-BAN its taken what, 30-40 years for the effects of tobacco to be fully realised and widely accepted?
:Legalising one drug wont stop the others being bought illegally.
ossibly opens the door to more people driving under influence/thinking cannabis will not effect you at all.
:May instigate more curiosity into the harder, much riskier stuff e.g. Heroin, Skunk, Coke.

On the other
:Health benefit links to pain relief and stress problems.
:Can cut down a large section of profits for criminal organisations.
:Has been proved in Amsterdam that legalisation does not turn the country into pot dependant permanently stoned tramps.
:Any health risks/benefits can be studied in the open.
eople will not be afraid to disclose it if it has been smoked and they have some sort of accident/problem and need medical attention.
:The cannabis is regulated, and you will know what is in it.
:Can benefit the economy by creating new jobs

These are a few reasons, but I think we need more study into long-term mental and physical effects into cannabis first, because medical science still isnt sure whether schizophrenics are more likely to take cannabis DUE to schizophrenia or if it is a side-effect.

Naturally though, any substance that changes the only interpreter of reality you have (your brain) should be approached with caution and moderation.

EDIT: This is another facet of what i was trying to get at but forgot to write down, it's worrying, but it's also a perfect display of science vs. politics.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8334774.stm

 

[Canid117]

I think the government has bigger things to deal with right now than the legalization of Marijuana...

 

[axia777]

Therefore, having marijuana cigarettes available in shops would be great for the economy and would be a crippling blow to unscrupulous dealers everywhere. Plus, taxing it could pay for a huge clampdown on other, more harmful drugs. A win-win situation, really.

California estimates a tax windfall of over 1.4 BILLION dollars.

 

[CrysisMcGee]

Sigh. This is exactly the sort of thread I tend to get into arguments in, because for some reason a reasonable amount of the Escapist seems to love this plant so I know I shouldn't post... but ok.

I've never understood people's fascination with this drug. It's a hallucinogenic plant, that's it. It relaxes you, that's it. It causes damage to the hippocampus, therefore interfering with long term memory processing thats... oh wait. I honestly don't understand why people need a relaxation in the form of an illegal drug. It seems very odd to me. Personally I believe it should stay illegal and be done with it.

Of course this is going to invite people going on about the war on drugs and how so much money is spent and so on. I think that argument as also fairly shallow, because if there wasn't a demand for it supply would cease. The problem is with the people who need some sort of kick in order to survive their lives, always has been. I'll never understand it myself, they cause a lot of damage to your body and are illegal, why bother with them?

So in short, I'm happy the marijuana is illegal and I hope it stays that way.

"No no, stay the torches. We aren't setting this one on fire."

I fully understand your position. Because I was in it myself at one time. After doing a considerable amount of research, I realized that it is far less dangerous than I thought it was. Also I watched the entire series of Penn & Teller's Bullshit!.

As for mental problems, they have no conclusive evidence one way or the other. They do know that Alchohol has proven more harmful to mental health.

Anyway, what really changed my position was smoking it myself. tried it a little, never really cared for it. Then A buddy got me to smoke it with him daily. This got me lovin' it. I still love weed.

Trust me, You have to try it yourself to understand. Daily helps.

 

[Eternal_24]

As far as I'm concerned, people should have the personal freedom to do whatever they want so long as what they're doing doesn't cause harm to those around them. I'm not a drug user, but I think it's contemptible how some idiot can get away with 1 month in prison for driving at ridiculous speeds on a public road and endangering the safety of everyone around him (especially if he has passengers) and yet some other guy can get life in prison for being in possession of a drug which is purely for personal use... I just don't understand it.

[EDIT]

Here's a website you should all check out: http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/drug-war-victim/

It's a list of everyone who's been killed and how they were kill in the so called "War on Drugs". Two of the many cases listed:

"A retired Marine Sergeant who served two tours in Iraq, was peacefully sitting on the front stoop of a house, when police in unmarked cars who had him under surveillance (believing based on his acquaintances that he might be part of a narcotics ring) pulled up and tasered him three times, causing him to go into convulsions and throw up. Because he had not gotten his hand free from his jacket quickly enough (while convulsing) an officer then shot him point blank in the chest with three .40 caliber rounds. Hale?s widow has filed a civil lawsuit."

"Alberto was killed by a shotgun blast to the back while following police orders and lying face down on the floor during a SWAT raid. He was a seventh-grader at Prescott Senior Elementary School."

 

[Seanchaidh]

Why do people even want to legalize it. i never really got it, its like legalizing crack, "I want it legalized so that i can feel good without getting in trouble". Of course i know nothing about it but this is what it seems like.

Well, if you bothered to read the thread, you might find out that your fake quote is a gross caricature of the view such that it doesn't even register as remotely similar to what has been said on behalf of legalization. Almost all arguments for legalization focus on the effects of prohibition on use, abuse, safety, and crime. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean people don't do it, nor does it mean that there is a significant risk of being caught doing it. What it does mean is that people must be evasive and secretive and that means that the flow of (accurate) information about the product is suppressed by the potential for arrest and imprisonment or fine. These are ideas which support legalization:

1) Use is not significantly curtailed by a drug's being illegal.
2) Abusers are less likely to seek treatment for an addiction to an illegal drug than a legal one.
3) Organized crime is less concerned about product safety than law-abiding shopkeepers and growers would be.
4) Organized crime owns the market for illegal goods; they compete by evading and bribing law enforcement and not so much by product quality or price. Take away or significantly reduce the competitive advantage of being able to evade or bribe law enforcement and you take the market out of the hands of the criminals and gangs and into the hands of people who will compete on price, quality, and safety rather than resorting to violent turf wars and hide and seek with the cops.

 

[Ironic]

Why do people even want to legalize it. i never really got it, its like legalizing crack, "I want it legalized so that i can feel good without getting in trouble". Of course i know nothing about it but this is what it seems like.

Well, if you bothered to read the thread, you might find out that your fake quote is a gross caricature of the view such that it doesn't even register as remotely similar to what has been said on behalf of legalization. Almost all arguments for legalization focus on the effects of prohibition on use, abuse, safety, and crime. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean people don't do it, nor does it mean that there is a significant risk of being caught doing it. What it does mean is that people must be evasive and secretive and that means that the flow of (accurate) information about the product is suppressed by the potential for arrest and imprisonment or fine. These are ideas which support legalization:

1) Use is not significantly curtailed by a drug's being illegal.
2) Abusers are less likely to seek treatment for an addiction to an illegal drug than a legal one.
3) Organized crime is less concerned about product safety than law-abiding shopkeepers and growers would be.
4) Organized crime owns the market for illegal goods; they compete by evading and bribing law enforcement and not so much by product quality or price. Take away or significantly reduce the competitive advantage of being able to evade or bribe law enforcement and you take the market out of the hands of the criminals and gangs and into the hands of people who will compete on price, quality, and safety rather than resorting to violent turf wars and hide and seek with the cops.

Positive point:
If it's legal, it can be taxed.

Cha-ching.

 

[axia777]

Positive point:
If it's legal, it can be taxed.

Cha-ching.

Like I have been pointing out California is most likely going to legalize and expects 1.4 billion dollars in taxes. That is a shit load of cash for schools, the police, fire fighters, fixing roads, and keeping the state government running.

 

[4fromK]

OP clearly forgets one thing. If it was legalised, then a legit corporation would have to handle its production, meaning it can't be cut with anything. this goes for all drugs; the best step is to legalise and control rather than to leave it illegal and beyond regulation

 

[InfernoJesus]

Legalization of marijuana would drastically decrease illegal drug trade. People are going to get weed, whether or not the government condones it. All that weed being illegal does is prevent the taxation of it and increase illegal trade.

 

[Inverse Skies]

"No no, stay the torches. We aren't setting this one on fire."

I fully understand your position. Because I was in it myself at one time. After doing a considerable amount of research, I realized that it is far less dangerous than I thought it was. Also I watched the entire series of Penn & Teller's Bullshit!.

As for mental problems, they have no conclusive evidence one way or the other. They do know that Alchohol has proven more harmful to mental health.

Anyway, what really changed my position was smoking it myself. tried it a little, never really cared for it. Then A buddy got me to smoke it with him daily. This got me lovin' it. I still love weed.

Trust me, You have to try it yourself to understand. Daily helps.

The thing is, I have no interest in trying it. None. I don't care about what it does or that people enjoy it. I guess I have the view in my mind that it's illegal, therefore I shouldn't do it and now all interest in it has been lost. Curiously, I'm one of those people where making something inaccesible doesn't make it more desirable, I just see it as bad and therefore won't do it. Interesting.

 

[ClaptonKnophlerHendrix]

Sure, but what if say, ol' farmer Benson started up the cannabis trade in his farm atop the village. Then one day there was an enormous fire which spread all the way through his fields, and possibly even to the villagers marijuana growths. I can guarantee you the whole damn town would be high as a kite for a week. I say any substance that can make the world go funny and slow, and if overdone CAN cause health problems should not be allowed, to cultivate, use, abuse, trade anything associated with it. Simple as that. And no I am not a blowhard, joyless old man.

But you have to admit, it would be interesting to a see a whole town high as a kite.

 

[iamthehorde]

the question should be why hemp is illegal anyway. the main reason was never weedsmoking itself. it was a war on hemp by harry anslinger, who was married to the niece of then media-tycoon william randolph hearst. anslinger hated drugs and especially cannabis. he and hearst also funded the production of "reefer madness", the famous film that demonized smoking cannabis. in reefer madness, there is no reference to hemp at all, most of the public didn´t know reefer came from hemp. while hemp is usable in many different ways(oil, cosmetics, paper, painkillers...) in almost all ways superior to cotton as a fabric, the cotton industry, the synthetics industry who would profit from a banning of hemp also funded campaigns against hemp/weed. when anslinger was head of the federal bureau of nacotics, the marihujana tax act made cannabis illegal except for medical and industrial purposes which were highly taxed, so growing hemp would make no profit. although the marijuhana tax act is now obsolete, it´s the foundation of the laws that make cannabis illegal in the usa and most of the rest of the world where it is illegal. as stupid as it sounds, the main reason why weed is also illegal in the rest of the world is that they basically adopted these laws through the united nations when anslinger was head of the UN-drug commission because they were dependent on american money.

so weed is basically verboten because of one man´s personal crusade against drugs and the fact he had the connections to pull it off. well done mother******(it just looks nicer with the stars).

now i have not much left to say, except that i like your idea. i would have grown some already but it´s expensive to buy lamps and stuff and it doesn´t come out that good. so it would be cool, but i would think it would be cooler to go netherlands. their system works and there are no real problems. in the netherlands less people smoke weed for example than in germany and when they do they do it more casually. if you need to go to a dealer you often have to buy more than you need because you don´t know when it will be available next time, which means you consume more of it in a shorter time span(that´s my life...). you may also be offered other drugs by your dealer if he´s an asshole, or you get ripped off.

in the end, banning weed makes no sense in a society where alcohol is promoted everywhere and getting mad wasted every weekend is perfectly fine.

 

[INK]

first off no CA is not "most likely" going to legalise it, unfortunately, even as more and more ppl need it as medicine and a source of income. but in all this talk about taxing it i think something central has been lost, and that is the human toll of marijuana prohibition. millions of citizens are in prison & millions more threatened incarceration or fined for laws designed to create a permanent underclass, laws that should have never been enforced in the first place but sadly are.

 

[Inverse Skies]

Snip

Depends on what the substance is and why it's illegal. Your example of gay marriage is rather weak as gays becoming married is a act which has no harm on society at all and would in fact improve the community through more open social liberties. Marijuana is illegal for a reason as it's an addictive hallucinogenic, the two examples don't correlate well.

No, I just don't see the need to impulsively try something which has been deemed illegal. The whole situation doesn't make much sense to me. It's an illegal substance, it could potentially give you a criminal record (unlikely I know, you'd probably need to grow or traffick it for that to happen) and what's the benefit out of it being used? Relaxation? Is that it? Seems rather pointless to me. Are people's lives really that dull that they need to turn to an illegal drug for enjoyment? Saying that I'm basically against people enjoying their lives strikes me as quite odd, mainly because I'm saying I don't understand why people need to turn to an illegal substance to do that.

The old money issue when it comes to taxing it and removing the criminal trade has been used before and every time I've grown bored of it. It's a supply and demand issue, if there wasn't a demand for it then there wouldn't be a supply issue. Of course the problem is not as simple as that, it'd be foolish of me to say otherwise, but the real issue here is education. Why do people need to smoke this substance? I'm not sure to be honest, as I've said the whole situation seems peculiar to me.

Then again it's always hard to breach the cultural barrier, the US seems to be a lot more up in arms about this than Australia is, and every debate I've had on here about its legalisation I've had with members from America. We don't have the same prison problems here than you do over there and this issue rarely comes into debate with the media, hence the hysteria about legalising it doesn't exist over here as it does over in the US.

Basically I just don't understand why people would want/need to use it, and because of that fact I don't see a point to legalising it. If I want to relax there's many other things I would rather do, none of which are illegal in the slightest. The whole situation is strange honestly, I can't see why people can't just accept that it's an illegal substance and leave it at that.