Marijuana: The Great Taboo Topic

[Raven's Nest]

I'm against the smoking of weed and I think your friend's parents have acted in an entirely non-ignorant manner. Weed is illegal in most countries, what does that tell you?

Other things that are illegal:

Plowing a field with an elephant
Putting a moose or camel in a bathtub
Tying a giraffe to a lamppost
Children buying lollipops (Spokane)
Cutting your hair in many Arabic countries (oh, and hows about 'going outside without being completely covered head-to-foot if you're a woman'?)

and tons of other shit.

Okay I did actually explain the above statement and even predicted this kind of response although partially in jest as i'm taking it. Please have a look through my previous posts in this thread and ask me if you have any further questions.

Also, what is keeping it illegal going to do? Even if you don't smoke it, it's going to be a great tax revenue for the government, it will take business away from drug cartels, and only pure, harmless stuff will be sold by the legal traders, and it will clear the jails of harmless potheads, free up a massive amount of police time and money which can be used to fight actual crime, keeping it illegal won't reduce usage, many more dangerous things are still legal (try alcohol and cigarettes and driving, for some), nobody has ever died from smoking weed, it's wicked inspiration for music, an excellent painkiller and relaxant, a brilliant resource (hemp and cannabis could potentially wipe out deforestation, be made into clothes, fuels, foods, cosmetics, paints, cleaners, building materials, rope and other useful things), and only illegal in the first case because of a smear campaign by the paper and timber industry.

Where as you've managed to get this point across better and more balanced than some ITT, I still feel it is an extremely optimistic and idealistic view of what would happen. I think the reality of the situation would be much much worse/less clear cut than that. What many fail to take into account is the actual effect on society such a move would have. Stoners aren't popular people, nor do they have the love of the population of non-tokers. You'd think it'll turn into a little utopia but for those of us that don't think the world of pot, we are mostly in agreeance that it would be a bad thing for a country as a whole. This is why these decisions are made by a countries government, not gaming fans on a forum. I won't pretend to have any more insight on the matter than you have so it may be a case of agree to disagree here.

However the use of hemp is legal in the UK at least. From my understanding this is because it is derived from the male cannabis plant which does not contain the THC, which makes the female part illegal. If that isn't the case in your country then it should be. But that's not on trial here.

 

[Raven's Nest]

All you're saying is...
"God works in mysterious ways."
"Cuse I said so."
"I'm a sheeple."
"Baa Baa"

If the majority of countries upheld jumping of a bridge would you do it? You can think what you want, but either keep it your self or create a real reason. You're too smart for this.

If you want me to dignify this with a response, I would ask that you go through all my posts and come back to me if you have further questions. Otherwise piss off.

Sorry to trim such an epic post...

I agree with you, every word...

I've noticed during the course of this thread which is the first of it's kind that I have participated in, that the reasons to legalize cannabis are largely due to selfish interests. Those same people often aren't willing to get up and do what it takes to get shit done. Besides even if they got that far they still completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of people in a society will not want it legalized for perfectly valid reasons. Where there are drugs, there is crime... That and most stoners do little but work minimum wage jobs or claim benefits and never attempt to progress in life. Save the odd exceptions of course. In fact if that statement has pissed anyone off then good, it shows that you do care about your lives and how you are portrayed. Perhaps there is hope after all...

 

[Raven's Nest]

i am not saying to allow kids to get the message that all drugs are okay, but anything you do, or almost everything you do in life has a small risk, like obesity or a damaged liver , etc
but fast food, booze, and hell, even skateboarding is fine, and all of these things have risks, hell, my Aunt is a doctor, and she actually gave me a book on what has risks, and even sex was in the book, something that nearly all humans do multiple times in life, and would rather be tortured than give it up.

plus, i don't really smoke weed, especially during the school year, because i have homework, priorities, and work, once that is done, and if i really want to, and most of the time i don't, i'll smoke, but only if i have nothing to do, which is rare...

I do understand your views on this, believe me, and it think I understand just what you are missing...

Yes, life is risky and we should take risks because they are fun and interesting or whatnot, but what you need to try and understand is when something like this is legalised, society as a whole takes a risk, not just the individual. Everyone has to try and make peace with the idea that a potentially dangerous and clearly mind altering drug is going to be on their doorsteps, in their newsagents, in their coffee shops. And the vast majority of people do not want this to happen, myself included.

Yes alcohol is just as dangerous if not more apparent, but we as a society have had many thousands of years to adjust to it. The habitual smoking of weed in most countries has not been around any where near as long on the scale that it is used now.

Society isn't ready for that. We have enough problems with alcohol abusers and drink drivers etc, we all should know drinking to excess is bad for us but it is still a major one. With uncertain research going on about the very real potential dangers of smoking cannabis it is the youngsters like yourself that I fear for. Stoners aren't cool, and most don't do anything valuable with their lives, at least not to society. This brings me straight back to the point. Society doesn't need a fresh generations of stoners, it should be working to avoid letting people slip into the habit of smoking marijuana and becoming the stereotypical stoner. Legitimizing it for whatever reason is a huge step in the wrong direction I think.

 

[Raven's Nest]

*looks around*

You mean I finally caught up and now everyone has buggered off?

*facepalm*

 

[TailsRodrigez]

i am not saying to allow kids to get the message that all drugs are okay, but anything you do, or almost everything you do in life has a small risk, like obesity or a damaged liver , etc
but fast food, booze, and hell, even skateboarding is fine, and all of these things have risks, hell, my Aunt is a doctor, and she actually gave me a book on what has risks, and even sex was in the book, something that nearly all humans do multiple times in life, and would rather be tortured than give it up.

plus, i don't really smoke weed, especially during the school year, because i have homework, priorities, and work, once that is done, and if i really want to, and most of the time i don't, i'll smoke, but only if i have nothing to do, which is rare...

I do understand your views on this, believe me, and it think I understand just what you are missing...

Yes, life is risky and we should take risks because they are fun and interesting or whatnot, but what you need to try and understand is when something like this is legalised, society as a whole takes a risk, not just the individual. Everyone has to try and make peace with the idea that a potentially dangerous and clearly mind altering drug is going to be on their doorsteps, in their newsagents, in their coffee shops. And the vast majority of people do not want this to happen, myself included.

Yes alcohol is just as dangerous if not more apparent, but we as a society have had many thousands of years to adjust to it. The habitual smoking of weed in most countries has not been around any where near as long on the scale that it is used now.

Society isn't ready for that. We have enough problems with alcohol abusers and drink drivers etc, we all should know drinking to excess is bad for us but it is still a major one. With uncertain research going on about the very real potential dangers of smoking cannabis it is the youngsters like yourself that I fear for. Stoners aren't cool, and most don't do anything valuable with their lives, at least not to society. This brings me straight back to the point. Society doesn't need a fresh generations of stoners, it should be working to avoid letting people slip into the habit of smoking marijuana and becoming the stereotypical stoner. Legitimizing it for whatever reason is a huge step in the wrong direction I think.

what you have just said has some merit to it, and most of the points you have made are legitimate. however, we clearly have different experiences with weed, so we will never be able to change eachother's views, since my 60 year old friend has served in vietnam and has trained troops deployed during the gulf war,( i am not doing any military discussion here) and another friend who smokes weed plans on heading down to mexico to treat those who tried to cross the border and failed (not arguing anything oon that either) and I could give other reasons, but my point is to show that our different experiences mean we will probobly never see eye to eye.

 

[TailsRodrigez]

Now if you excuse me, kindly stop quoting me, because it will prevent me from doing things like writing a report, so i want to stop being told i have a new post by my computer. goodbye.

 

[benylor]

I just woke up again, and good morning.

I won't bother to dig up each quote, but I'm also based in the UK and I see the little shits who smoke the drug - there's a collection of them who until recently have been using my stairwell as a communal living space / urinal. I reason that it has more to do with the reason why they take the drug and the excesses to which they take it than anything. I'd still rather they were high than drunk, if they were drunk they'd probably be bothered to actually try to mug me every now and then when I walk past them.

I was expecting you to pull me up on that it's only a danger if you have latent psychoses, and how it is impossible to be safe of that, and I respond: You're absolutely correct. You can have some indicators as to possible danger, such as family disposition, but there's no way to be sure. I already suffer from depression so it is a worry to me - but 2-3 buds once a week or so seems to be safe enough. As said though, it is definitely a fair point.

I'll be honest, if it wasn't for a few cases, I'd be happy with the status quo as it is - everybody smokes pot but they have to keep it covered, and everybody gets on with their lives. It's just that it hurts a lot that one girl I knew in college - very very bright student with persistantly promising grades, even had a crush on her for a long time (which never amounted to anything), was caught with a joint in a park by the police and then was immediately expelled from college and ostracised by everybody in it. People will smoke weed one way or another, legal or not, but while it's illegal you get completely artificial and needless fuck-ups like this.
If I didn't need to worry about something like this happening to me, I probably wouldn't care on such a personal level - I'd shelve it with the legalise-everything instinct.

Sorry about the disorganised ramble in this post, but I just woke up like now and I'm tired.

 

[Raven's Nest]

what you have just said has some merit to it, and most of the points you have made are legitimate. however, we clearly have different experiences with weed, so we will never be able to change eachother's views, since my 60 year old friend has served in vietnam and has trained troops deployed during the gulf war,( i am not doing any military discussion here) and another friend who smokes weed plans on heading down to mexico to treat those who tried to cross the border and failed (not arguing anything oon that either) and I could give other reasons, but my point is to show that our different experiences mean we will probobly never see eye to eye.

Yes that's true. We are the sum of our parts and that includes our experiences. I haven't had the best of time around weed, whether this down to personal situations or just location I don't know. I'm in the UK and drug use amongst young adults and teenagers is becoming a real problem. Maybe someday you'll come across some situations like this and you'll know then that the weed is mostly to blame...

Still you can't discount the inherent awesomeness of some people, weed smokers or not. They'll always be those that break the mould. Legalising it to these kinds of people wouldn't be a problem, but if you can see why societies just don't need that blanket legalisation then your one of the awesome ones too. Unfortunately most people can't be trusted...

As I stated at the beginning I don't get into these debates to change minds. I'm trying to help open other peoples. By understanding my views, you will be armed with both sets of knowledge and opinion, this will help you to make better decisions on your own. So I hope I've achieved that today...

 

[TPiddy]

Eh, it's relatively harmless. And there's vaporizers.

And you just described exactly what I would like to see done good sir.

It just seems so hypocritical that we allow tobacco and cigars and alcohol but not marijuana...

I mean, how is smoking a joint any different from someone who drinks and smokes at the same time?

The government is missing out on a serious revenue stream as well as other uses like medicine and the manufacture of goods.

 

[Ganado_Headshot]

3. It's the most annual grossing cash crop in America.

Also, It smells like shit.

It smells like shit? I find that difficult to understand, seeing as how it's an herb from the earth, with many of the same properties as such ingrediants we use in cooking, parsley, oregano, etc.

 

[TheGreatCoolEnergy]

3. It's the most annual grossing cash crop in America.

Also, It smells like shit.

It smells like shit? I find that difficult to understand, seeing as how it's an herb from the earth, with many of the same properties as such ingrediants we use in cooking, parsley, oregano, etc.

I find the smoke smells absolutely terrible

 

[Cakes]

I don't judge people, I judge their motives and actions. If you smoked weed because you like it I would not think less of you. If you said I need to smoke weed because it's the only thing that makes me happy, then you'll get the judgement. The difference is subtle, I'm hoping you'll get it tho.

Okay, cool beans. Now that that's cleared up...

No it is not significantly less harmful. Where as tobacco can kill through passive smoking, it won't alter your mind and affect your judgement.

Weed: Temporarily impairs your judgement

OH DEAR VISHNU, ANYTHING BUT THAT!

Drugs and alcohol will impair your ability to think properly, drive vehicles safely etc. Yes most weed smokers do not get violent like alcoholics but the cost of addiction can destroy families just the same...

Marijuana isn't an addictive substance. Unless you're going to argue that it's psychologically addictive, which is a different thing entirely.

I'm not trying to argue that weed isn't stupid as all fuck (it is) or absolutely, 100% harmless (it is in comparison to awful shit like alcohol and tobacco, but there are some nasty cases.)
But I just can't fathom why marijuana of all things is considered such a plague upon society. Some of the propaganda really bothers me too. DID YOU KNOW SMOKING ONE JOINT IS LIKE SMOKING SEVERAL CIGARETTES?
Ads like that make me want to do pot out of spite.

 

[EmperorZoltan]

Ahhh fun times. I actually had an interesting conversation regarding the legalization of drugs with an adamant non drug user the other day (apart from the occasional social drink) and actually managed to convince him that legalising ALL drugs, the first step being marijuana, would be a good thing.

Reasoning is as follows:
1) Some members of society will ALWAYS do what more conservative members tell them not to do. It is impossible to completly remove the drug trade.
2) Through government regulation you can control prices, purity and safety of the drug.
3) Impose similar restrictions to drug use as to alcohol (i.e: 18+, no driving, etc)
4) By regulating sale through official government clinics and FORCING all purchasers to go through education on the effects and harms of the drug you are immediately educating potential drug users, and rehabilitating current drug users.
5) Limit the maximum amount purchasable, which in the case of hard drug use will lower overdose and mortality through excessive use.
6) No cost to the taxpayer; government regulated sale of drugs immediately goes back into the drug clinics and education of drug users. Additionally may even be a source of income.
7) Remove principal means of income from criminal and gang circles.

Obviously legalising ALL drugs is just a little too radical for some so for the time being lets just stick to pot.

Would love to hear counter points!

 

[StonkThis]

I'm against the smoking of weed and I think your friend's parents have acted in an entirely non-ignorant manner. Weed is illegal in most countries, what does that tell you?

That the governments of those countries are stupid?

I've never done weed, I would try it most likely, but still. Weed is safe, relaxes you. How is weed so bad? Alcohol is worse. MUCH WORSE. Weed has medical purposes, obviously recreation, and many other pros. The pros outweigh the cons, and I can't even think of any cons. Maybe I'm stupid, I don't know, but I think it should be legalized.

Umm I don't want to seem impolite but I think your stupid. And I would implore you to go and find out the risks of taking marijuana like now... A cop should be able to help you out, or school nurse. How old are you? Because I can't believe you would actually come to the conclusion that weed is safe by yourself. That would imply you aren't even aware of the dangers of harder drugs too. Now that is concerning.

Sorry to seem like an ass, but I must point out the grammar. I went through a DARE things, I know hard drugs are bad, etc, etc, but not much was said on marijuana in the con section. I will admit, yes, there are downsides, but not many. As I said alcohol is worse, as are cigarettes. You can't overdose on weed either, it's pretty light, but maybe that's a comparison. If weed were to be made into an industry, such as tobacco, they would produce it in much safer ways, therefore, better for the buyer who would normally get a bad product at a high price. It would help economies (assuming they didn't mess with the drug and make it addictive). Maybe it isn't safe, but so are cigarettes and alcohol and running with scissors, but are they illegal? Nope. Maybe I am stupid, but it seems pretty valid to me.

 

[roflchopter]

3. It's the most annual grossing cash crop in America.

Also, It smells like shit.

It smells like shit? I find that difficult to understand, seeing as how it's an herb from the earth, with many of the same properties as such ingrediants we use in cooking, parsley, oregano, etc.

You spelled "ingredients" wrong. *****.

 

[Ganado_Headshot]

I hate that humans feel the need to fuck around with their minds and bodies in order to enjoy themselves...

You should probably quit playing videogames then. That's just electronic video stimulation for your mind.